*** THE INDICTMENT OF DONALD J TRUMP ***

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,673
    2021
    Who wants the legal system thrown out the window? I want POOTWH indicted by a grand jury, arrested, charged, given a proper defense, tried before a jury and, if found guilty, sentenced to a punishment that’s been prescribed by a judge based on statue and precedent or prosecution recommendations and guidelines. What do you think we are, deplorables? Sheesh.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    edited August 2022
    THE FIELD
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    So I read the redacted affidavit(and footnotes).  can someone please tell me if I am missing something?  Basically inept former POTUS did not properly store documents that may or may not have been classified due to the nature of his presidential authority concerning declassification. Said declassification authority will probably go to the courts for a final answer.  I saw no mention of selling or divulging secrets to hostile foreign powers.  After 6 years is the best we can do that former guy didn't store documents in an approved location?  I mean I want to see him get brought up on charges, but based on my reading of the affidavit I personally think he walks and maybe scores some witch hunt points, and that some of you are going to be extremely let down yet again.

    I am not getting the same feeling that this is finally the damning evidence we have been waiting for that seems pretty prevalent amongst liberal circles these days.
    So let's be clear, the NARA and DOJ never said they were prepared to charge him criminally.  The affidavit and search warrant was put before the court to forcibly return documents to the custody of the US gov't, consistent with the presidential records act of 78.  This was necessitated because team Trump first 1. Refused to turn them over 2. Turned over some 3. Signed an affidavit that they were all turned over, but that turned out to be false.  And the nature of the held documents were determined to be extremely sensitive in nature that have differentiated requirements related to possession and storage.  

    The question that the MEDIA asks is whether removing them from the custody of the gov't and obstructing the gov't from retrieving them is criminal.  From that first day, I posted here that I wonder if the limit of the DOJ's involvement is simply to retrieve the documents.  Nothing that I have learned since then has informed me that is or is not the limit of what will happen.  
    This clears things up and takes things out of the fever dream that some people seem to be living in.  It seems that it may be a case of a records violation when framed like this.  If that is the case I don't see a former president getting much more than a slap on the wrist unless he actually knowingly divulged secrets from said documents to hostile foreign governments.
    What do you think he was doing with these top secret documents that he and his lawyers lied about having in the first place and then refused to return when asked?


    I have no idea what he was doing. I can speculate all day and start my own Qanon type dot connecting, but that is all speculation.  From a court standpoint they can argue that they didn't believe that they had anything they shouldn't because it was all declassified, and it will likely be answered by the courts.  Other than that I just see a lot of wishing and speculation.
    Qanon dot connecting? 99.9% likely he used the info for cash and leverage business deals with foreign countries. He has a long history of corrupt deals, and people with personality disorders don’t change their behavior patterns. 
    Yeah that could be true.  Until it is proved it is just speculation though.  I don't think anyone has seen any evidence yet to prove those documents made the nation less safe than say the things that the government did that Snowden, Assange, Manning  etc blew the whistle on.  Again if it can be proved that Trump did all these terrible things and put the nation at risk, make the punishment fit the crime.  Until then all that any of us on the moving train can come up with is purely speculatory.

    This shit wasn't the White House dinner menu of hamberders served with ketchup. Or transcripts of press conferences that were broadcast on major television outlets. This shit was highly classified information that put our national security at risk. NATIONAL. SECURITY. AT. RISK.

    The amount of "I'll believe it when I see it" and excuse making is beyond me. Its why we are where we are and why POOTWH keeps pulling shit. Because otherwise normal, intelligent people say, "ha, no way was he up to no good, just a political vendetta and as POTUS, until it goes to court, no biggie."

    And today its reported that NARA still doesn't think everything has been returned. Ho, ho, fucking hummmmmmmm.

    What a Sh................. country.

    #putinontheritziswinning
    Moving the goal posts is quite the popular game for a lot of people in the country nowadays. Sheesh.
    Am I moving the goal posts?  I am just looking for clear evidence of the egregious crimes that presumably everyone but me has proof of.  I see it as a case of dumb ass put the papers in the wrong folder.  Are people suggesting that we just throw our legal system out the window because we believe Donald Trump deserves to be punished for something?  To reiterate, if there was something done that made us all so much more unsafe than anything else our government has done in the past century, then yes please make an example.  
    what more evidence do you need that trump will 100% of the time put himself and his interests before the united states of america?

    the fact that he had the documents in his unsecured home, did not handle them correctly, and did not return them when asked several times, and even lied about returning them is all part of a felony and he needs to be indicted and tried. reality winter got 5 years for one document. trump had and withheld over 300. 

    i believe he may have been holding on to those documents to help him to make money because we all know he is going broke.

    i can't believe after all you have seen the last 7 years that you can still defend him. 
    quoting because i forgot to mention the fact that he has had several excuses and dubious justifications for having them in the first place and not returning them. he has been heard to have said "they are not their documents, they are mine." his legal defense has changed 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks.

    come on man. what have you heard that makes you think he may have made an innocent mistake?

    this is the man that said to introduce bleach into the body and also introduce a very powerful light into the body for covid. it is quite possible that he is a very stupid man, AND has criminal intent in everything that he does.
    I'm confused as to where I am defending him.  I absolutely  think he is probably guilty of many crimes and was a terrible president I don't know any of these things, I can come up with my own subjective opinion, but that is it..  I just don't see this current situation as the thing that brings him down.  I'm pretty certain that he has surrounded himself with people that will give him plausible deniability, and if that doesn't work he will wait it out in the courts forever paid for by his supporters.  I find it laughable that this is seen as defending him.  I'm sorry I got my hopes up too many times only to be let down.  The reality is if nothing up to now was enough to bring Trump to justice, I don't think this is what gets him. It is likely that if charges are brought and he goes to court he pleads the "I was president and thought I could do what I wanted with "my" documents" and gets if anything a small penalty of some type. If that is defending...I don't know what to tell you
    Post edited by static111 on
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    THE FIELD
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    100%. 
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    So I read the redacted affidavit(and footnotes).  can someone please tell me if I am missing something?  Basically inept former POTUS did not properly store documents that may or may not have been classified due to the nature of his presidential authority concerning declassification. Said declassification authority will probably go to the courts for a final answer.  I saw no mention of selling or divulging secrets to hostile foreign powers.  After 6 years is the best we can do that former guy didn't store documents in an approved location?  I mean I want to see him get brought up on charges, but based on my reading of the affidavit I personally think he walks and maybe scores some witch hunt points, and that some of you are going to be extremely let down yet again.

    I am not getting the same feeling that this is finally the damning evidence we have been waiting for that seems pretty prevalent amongst liberal circles these days.
    So let's be clear, the NARA and DOJ never said they were prepared to charge him criminally.  The affidavit and search warrant was put before the court to forcibly return documents to the custody of the US gov't, consistent with the presidential records act of 78.  This was necessitated because team Trump first 1. Refused to turn them over 2. Turned over some 3. Signed an affidavit that they were all turned over, but that turned out to be false.  And the nature of the held documents were determined to be extremely sensitive in nature that have differentiated requirements related to possession and storage.  

    The question that the MEDIA asks is whether removing them from the custody of the gov't and obstructing the gov't from retrieving them is criminal.  From that first day, I posted here that I wonder if the limit of the DOJ's involvement is simply to retrieve the documents.  Nothing that I have learned since then has informed me that is or is not the limit of what will happen.  
    This clears things up and takes things out of the fever dream that some people seem to be living in.  It seems that it may be a case of a records violation when framed like this.  If that is the case I don't see a former president getting much more than a slap on the wrist unless he actually knowingly divulged secrets from said documents to hostile foreign governments.
    What do you think he was doing with these top secret documents that he and his lawyers lied about having in the first place and then refused to return when asked?


    I have no idea what he was doing. I can speculate all day and start my own Qanon type dot connecting, but that is all speculation.  From a court standpoint they can argue that they didn't believe that they had anything they shouldn't because it was all declassified, and it will likely be answered by the courts.  Other than that I just see a lot of wishing and speculation.
    Qanon dot connecting? 99.9% likely he used the info for cash and leverage business deals with foreign countries. He has a long history of corrupt deals, and people with personality disorders don’t change their behavior patterns. 
    Yeah that could be true.  Until it is proved it is just speculation though.  I don't think anyone has seen any evidence yet to prove those documents made the nation less safe than say the things that the government did that Snowden, Assange, Manning  etc blew the whistle on.  Again if it can be proved that Trump did all these terrible things and put the nation at risk, make the punishment fit the crime.  Until then all that any of us on the moving train can come up with is purely speculatory.

    This shit wasn't the White House dinner menu of hamberders served with ketchup. Or transcripts of press conferences that were broadcast on major television outlets. This shit was highly classified information that put our national security at risk. NATIONAL. SECURITY. AT. RISK.

    The amount of "I'll believe it when I see it" and excuse making is beyond me. Its why we are where we are and why POOTWH keeps pulling shit. Because otherwise normal, intelligent people say, "ha, no way was he up to no good, just a political vendetta and as POTUS, until it goes to court, no biggie."

    And today its reported that NARA still doesn't think everything has been returned. Ho, ho, fucking hummmmmmmm.

    What a Sh................. country.

    #putinontheritziswinning
    Moving the goal posts is quite the popular game for a lot of people in the country nowadays. Sheesh.
    Am I moving the goal posts?  I am just looking for clear evidence of the egregious crimes that presumably everyone but me has proof of.  I see it as a case of dumb ass put the papers in the wrong folder.  Are people suggesting that we just throw our legal system out the window because we believe Donald Trump deserves to be punished for something?  To reiterate, if there was something done that made us all so much more unsafe than anything else our government has done in the past century, then yes please make an example.  
    what more evidence do you need that trump will 100% of the time put himself and his interests before the united states of america?

    the fact that he had the documents in his unsecured home, did not handle them correctly, and did not return them when asked several times, and even lied about returning them is all part of a felony and he needs to be indicted and tried. reality winter got 5 years for one document. trump had and withheld over 300. 

    i believe he may have been holding on to those documents to help him to make money because we all know he is going broke.

    i can't believe after all you have seen the last 7 years that you can still defend him. 
    quoting because i forgot to mention the fact that he has had several excuses and dubious justifications for having them in the first place and not returning them. he has been heard to have said "they are not their documents, they are mine." his legal defense has changed 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks.

    come on man. what have you heard that makes you think he may have made an innocent mistake?

    this is the man that said to introduce bleach into the body and also introduce a very powerful light into the body for covid. it is quite possible that he is a very stupid man, AND has criminal intent in everything that he does.
    I'm confused as to where I am defending him.  I absolutely  think he is probably guilty of many crimes and was a terrible president I don't know any of these things, I can come up with my own subjective opinion, but that is it..  I just don't see this current situation as the thing that brings him down.  I'm pretty certain that he has surrounded himself with people that will give him plausible deniability, and if that doesn't work he will wait it out in the courts forever paid for by his supporters.  I find it laughable that this is seen as defending him.  I'm sorry I got my hopes up too many times only to be let down.  The reality is if nothing up to now was enough to bring Trump to justice, I don't think this is what gets him. It is likely that if charges are brought and he goes to court he pleads the "I was president and thought I could do what I wanted with "my" documents" and gets if anything a small penalty of some type. If that is defending...I don't know what to tell you
    How closely are you paying attention to this story? I don't see how there is any possible way that weak ass argument would hold up in court. Had he returned them when he was asked to....maybe that might work. But he's been asked to return them multiple times over the last year and a half. Multiple subpoenas have been issued. He and his lawyers lied to DOJ about having extra top secret documents after returning the first 15 boxes. Indictment is likely at this point. 

    And you keep bringing up past investigations as if they have anything to do with this one. They don't. Of all the investigations over the last few years, this one is much more likely to lead to his downfall. Not saying it will, but it is so much easier to tie him directly to this as opposed to him easily shielding himself in the Oval while was president. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    100%. 
    Be careful, someone might think you are a Trump defender.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    So I read the redacted affidavit(and footnotes).  can someone please tell me if I am missing something?  Basically inept former POTUS did not properly store documents that may or may not have been classified due to the nature of his presidential authority concerning declassification. Said declassification authority will probably go to the courts for a final answer.  I saw no mention of selling or divulging secrets to hostile foreign powers.  After 6 years is the best we can do that former guy didn't store documents in an approved location?  I mean I want to see him get brought up on charges, but based on my reading of the affidavit I personally think he walks and maybe scores some witch hunt points, and that some of you are going to be extremely let down yet again.

    I am not getting the same feeling that this is finally the damning evidence we have been waiting for that seems pretty prevalent amongst liberal circles these days.
    So let's be clear, the NARA and DOJ never said they were prepared to charge him criminally.  The affidavit and search warrant was put before the court to forcibly return documents to the custody of the US gov't, consistent with the presidential records act of 78.  This was necessitated because team Trump first 1. Refused to turn them over 2. Turned over some 3. Signed an affidavit that they were all turned over, but that turned out to be false.  And the nature of the held documents were determined to be extremely sensitive in nature that have differentiated requirements related to possession and storage.  

    The question that the MEDIA asks is whether removing them from the custody of the gov't and obstructing the gov't from retrieving them is criminal.  From that first day, I posted here that I wonder if the limit of the DOJ's involvement is simply to retrieve the documents.  Nothing that I have learned since then has informed me that is or is not the limit of what will happen.  
    This clears things up and takes things out of the fever dream that some people seem to be living in.  It seems that it may be a case of a records violation when framed like this.  If that is the case I don't see a former president getting much more than a slap on the wrist unless he actually knowingly divulged secrets from said documents to hostile foreign governments.
    What do you think he was doing with these top secret documents that he and his lawyers lied about having in the first place and then refused to return when asked?


    I have no idea what he was doing. I can speculate all day and start my own Qanon type dot connecting, but that is all speculation.  From a court standpoint they can argue that they didn't believe that they had anything they shouldn't because it was all declassified, and it will likely be answered by the courts.  Other than that I just see a lot of wishing and speculation.
    Qanon dot connecting? 99.9% likely he used the info for cash and leverage business deals with foreign countries. He has a long history of corrupt deals, and people with personality disorders don’t change their behavior patterns. 
    Yeah that could be true.  Until it is proved it is just speculation though.  I don't think anyone has seen any evidence yet to prove those documents made the nation less safe than say the things that the government did that Snowden, Assange, Manning  etc blew the whistle on.  Again if it can be proved that Trump did all these terrible things and put the nation at risk, make the punishment fit the crime.  Until then all that any of us on the moving train can come up with is purely speculatory.

    This shit wasn't the White House dinner menu of hamberders served with ketchup. Or transcripts of press conferences that were broadcast on major television outlets. This shit was highly classified information that put our national security at risk. NATIONAL. SECURITY. AT. RISK.

    The amount of "I'll believe it when I see it" and excuse making is beyond me. Its why we are where we are and why POOTWH keeps pulling shit. Because otherwise normal, intelligent people say, "ha, no way was he up to no good, just a political vendetta and as POTUS, until it goes to court, no biggie."

    And today its reported that NARA still doesn't think everything has been returned. Ho, ho, fucking hummmmmmmm.

    What a Sh................. country.

    #putinontheritziswinning
    Moving the goal posts is quite the popular game for a lot of people in the country nowadays. Sheesh.
    Am I moving the goal posts?  I am just looking for clear evidence of the egregious crimes that presumably everyone but me has proof of.  I see it as a case of dumb ass put the papers in the wrong folder.  Are people suggesting that we just throw our legal system out the window because we believe Donald Trump deserves to be punished for something?  To reiterate, if there was something done that made us all so much more unsafe than anything else our government has done in the past century, then yes please make an example.  
    what more evidence do you need that trump will 100% of the time put himself and his interests before the united states of america?

    the fact that he had the documents in his unsecured home, did not handle them correctly, and did not return them when asked several times, and even lied about returning them is all part of a felony and he needs to be indicted and tried. reality winter got 5 years for one document. trump had and withheld over 300. 

    i believe he may have been holding on to those documents to help him to make money because we all know he is going broke.

    i can't believe after all you have seen the last 7 years that you can still defend him. 
    quoting because i forgot to mention the fact that he has had several excuses and dubious justifications for having them in the first place and not returning them. he has been heard to have said "they are not their documents, they are mine." his legal defense has changed 3 or 4 times in the last 2 weeks.

    come on man. what have you heard that makes you think he may have made an innocent mistake?

    this is the man that said to introduce bleach into the body and also introduce a very powerful light into the body for covid. it is quite possible that he is a very stupid man, AND has criminal intent in everything that he does.
    I'm confused as to where I am defending him.  I absolutely  think he is probably guilty of many crimes and was a terrible president I don't know any of these things, I can come up with my own subjective opinion, but that is it..  I just don't see this current situation as the thing that brings him down.  I'm pretty certain that he has surrounded himself with people that will give him plausible deniability, and if that doesn't work he will wait it out in the courts forever paid for by his supporters.  I find it laughable that this is seen as defending him.  I'm sorry I got my hopes up too many times only to be let down.  The reality is if nothing up to now was enough to bring Trump to justice, I don't think this is what gets him. It is likely that if charges are brought and he goes to court he pleads the "I was president and thought I could do what I wanted with "my" documents" and gets if anything a small penalty of some type. If that is defending...I don't know what to tell you
    How closely are you paying attention to this story? I don't see how there is any possible way that weak ass argument would hold up in court. Had he returned them when he was asked to....maybe that might work. But he's been asked to return them multiple times over the last year and a half. Multiple subpoenas have been issued. He and his lawyers lied to DOJ about having extra top secret documents after returning the first 15 boxes. Indictment is likely at this point. 

    And you keep bringing up past investigations as if they have anything to do with this one. They don't. Of all the investigations over the last few years, this one is much more likely to lead to his downfall. Not saying it will, but it is so much easier to tie him directly to this as opposed to him easily shielding himself in the Oval while was president. 
    See the post that followed the one you quoted.  I hope you are right and relish the idea of you telling me you told me so.  I just think based on the reality that I have lived in the last several years that this is likely to be hyped up and end with us all let down yet again.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    Based on some of the things you've said, you could have fooled me. Like, how, after everything we have learned, can you possibly think "I made a mistake. I thought I could do anything I want with my documents" will hold up in court? That is essentially what you said in an earlier post. That argument holds no weight what so ever. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    2021
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    I don't see anything "bringing him down" like a perp walk.  He is smart enough to protect himself and have others take his fall.  What's happening is that support and Trump fatigue keep chipping away at his support.  
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,795

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    Based on some of the things you've said, you could have fooled me. Like, how, after everything we have learned, can you possibly think "I made a mistake. I thought I could do anything I want with my documents" will hold up in court? That is essentially what you said in an earlier post. That argument holds no weight what so ever. 
    I still think that he can make that play, among others.  Not saying it is right,or that I even believe it, but there is a chance he can lawyer his way out of this.  Maybe he will even make a plea deal keep his ill gotten gains and slink away to Russia.  When it comes to Trump I throw everything out the window dealing with norms and what should happen.  Looking at his past record of skating away, I am not convinced he doesn't have a way out of this one.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
    That was why I asked how closely he was paying attention to the story. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I think some folks are just not following the story as closely as others are.
    I'm following it just as closely as anyone.  I'm not eat sleeping and breathing it, because that is a waste of my time.  My conclusions are that this isn't what brings him down.  You have different conclusions and I hope you and Hal are right and can come I told you so me to death in a few months.  I just think due to Trump being Trump and being in uncharted waters as to the limits of executive power, that the outcome will not be as clear cut as it would with a non president.  Again, I hope you and Hal are right and this is it and it brings him down and deflates his power and position.  My view is that that is wishful thinking.  How many times were we sure that the Mueller investigation or either of the impeachments were going to do the job, only to later be massively let down?
    I don't see anything "bringing him down" like a perp walk.  He is smart enough to protect himself and have others take his fall.  What's happening is that support and Trump fatigue keep chipping away at his support.  
    Stop coming to logical conclusions.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TXPosts: 5,973
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    edited August 2022
    2022
    hahaha

    We all needed some comedy relief this morning. ^--this guy....right on cue!

    The judge was Epstein's lawyer?! Oh no!

    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
    That was why I asked how closely he was paying attention to the story. 
    Because he is Trump and has a lifetime of support to show that he gets away with everything and when he is caught with his hand in the cookie jar usually walks away with a fraction of the penalty that he should get.  I agree that if all of this evidence was coming out against anyone but a former president or other protected high level government official it would be an open and shut case.  I'm not denying that this isn't enough to bring 99.9% of citizens to justice, Trump has a habit of manipulating that .1% in his favor.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    static111 said:

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
    That was why I asked how closely he was paying attention to the story. 
    Because he is Trump and has a lifetime of support to show that he gets away with everything and when he is caught with his hand in the cookie jar usually walks away with a fraction of the penalty that he should get.  I agree that if all of this evidence was coming out against anyone but a former president or other protected high level government official it would be an open and shut case.  I'm not denying that this isn't enough to bring 99.9% of citizens to justice, Trump has a habit of manipulating that .1% in his favor.
    Sure he might walk. Absolute possibility. We were specifically talking about your reason for him walking. Telling a judge and jury he thought the documents were his, after he was told repeatedly they were not his and to return them, is what is laughable. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,795
    hahaha

    We all needed some comedy relief this morning. ^--this guy....right on cue!

    The judge was Epstein's lawyer?! Oh no!

    Considering how close tfg & Epstein were, that really only adds credibility to the warrant. 

    Thanks for bringing that to the table, Rolemodels. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,376
    gift article. informative....



    Trump’s secret papers and the ‘myth’ of presidential security clearance
    By Devlin Barrett, Ellen Nakashima and Josh Dawsey
    August 25, 2022 at 12:00 ET
    Prosecutors scrutinizing Donald Trump for possible mishandling of classified information will have to do so without a key legal and factual element that has long been a staple of such cases, according to intelligence experts. That’s because, unlike the vast majority of federal workers who access secret information, presidents are not made to sign paperwork on classified documents as part of their joining or leaving the government.
    Typically, when a person gets access to restricted information, they are “read in” — a process that includes signing documents at the outset in which they acknowledge the legal requirements not to share information on sensitive programs with unauthorized people or keep classified documents in unauthorized places. When they leave such jobs, they are “read out,” again acknowledging in writing their legal responsibilities and declaring that they do not have any classified documents in their possession.
    David Priess, a former CIA officer who is now the publisher of Lawfare, a national security website and podcast producer, said presidents are not read out of classified programs when they leave office. That, he said, “is because presidents are not formally read in.”
    Said Priess: “There’s a myth out there that presidents have a formal security clearance. They don’t.”
    The “commander in chief has the ability to classify or declassify documents,” Priess said, by virtue of having been elected president by the American people. “A former president might receive access to limited classified material after leaving office to assist with writing memoirs or at the discretion of the current president, but a formal security clearance isn’t involved.”

    continues.....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    .The Juggler said:
    static111 said:

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
    That was why I asked how closely he was paying attention to the story. 
    Because he is Trump and has a lifetime of support to show that he gets away with everything and when he is caught with his hand in the cookie jar usually walks away with a fraction of the penalty that he should get.  I agree that if all of this evidence was coming out against anyone but a former president or other protected high level government official it would be an open and shut case.  I'm not denying that this isn't enough to bring 99.9% of citizens to justice, Trump has a habit of manipulating that .1% in his favor.
    Sure he might walk. Absolute possibility. We were specifically talking about your reason for him walking. Telling a judge and jury he thought the documents were his, after he was told repeatedly they were not his and to return them, is what is laughable. 
    After the new facts that Role Models has brought to light, I am not sure that either of us know what is 'really' going on.  Looks like Durham may just have us actin the fool.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    static111 said:
    .The Juggler said:
    static111 said:

    The suggestion that tfg can just claim he thought he was allowed to keep the docs he was told repeatedly he had to return and then claimed he didn't have is beyond laughable. 
    That was why I asked how closely he was paying attention to the story. 
    Because he is Trump and has a lifetime of support to show that he gets away with everything and when he is caught with his hand in the cookie jar usually walks away with a fraction of the penalty that he should get.  I agree that if all of this evidence was coming out against anyone but a former president or other protected high level government official it would be an open and shut case.  I'm not denying that this isn't enough to bring 99.9% of citizens to justice, Trump has a habit of manipulating that .1% in his favor.
    Sure he might walk. Absolute possibility. We were specifically talking about your reason for him walking. Telling a judge and jury he thought the documents were his, after he was told repeatedly they were not his and to return them, is what is laughable. 
    After the new facts that Role Models has brought to light, I am not sure that either of us know what is 'really' going on.  Looks like Durham may just have us actin the fool.
    You got that right!
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,673
    2021
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    Bull Durham is the master of actin' a fool. Still waiting for Hillary and Obama to be indicted? Or was it Hunter? Or Brandon? "Incriminating Crossfire Hurricane documents." Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/judge-mar-a-lago-epstein-00050739

    Was not in fact Epstein's attorney.  Represented several Epstein employees. Records show that this big money dem donor donated $4500 to mixed D and r candidates over several election cycles.

    "He worked as a federal prosecutor until Jan. 1, 2008, when a day later he became a defense attorney representing employees of Epstein, according to a 2018 story by the Miami Herald. According to the Herald, the employees included pilots for Epstein, his scheduler and a woman who had been described by some of Epstein’s victims as his sex slave. Epstein committed suicide in a Manhattan federal jail in 2019 while awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

    The Herald also reported that in 2011, Reinhart was named in a lawsuit where he was accused of violating Justice Department policies by representing the employees. Reinhart denied the allegations and said he did not participate in Epstein’s criminal case and did not learn any confidential information while working as a prosecutor."


    Sometimes a conspiracy is afoot, this doesn't appear to be one of those times.

    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,114
    2022
    Static you compared this to qanon stuff yesterday....lol....this one is on you

    hahah
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 8,787
    static111 said:
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/judge-mar-a-lago-epstein-00050739

    Was not in fact Epstein's attorney.  Represented several Epstein employees. Records show that this big money dem donor donated $4500 to mixed D and r candidates over several election cycles.

    "He worked as a federal prosecutor until Jan. 1, 2008, when a day later he became a defense attorney representing employees of Epstein, according to a 2018 story by the Miami Herald. According to the Herald, the employees included pilots for Epstein, his scheduler and a woman who had been described by some of Epstein’s victims as his sex slave. Epstein committed suicide in a Manhattan federal jail in 2019 while awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

    The Herald also reported that in 2011, Reinhart was named in a lawsuit where he was accused of violating Justice Department policies by representing the employees. Reinhart denied the allegations and said he did not participate in Epstein’s criminal case and did not learn any confidential information while working as a prosecutor."


    Sometimes a conspiracy is afoot, this doesn't appear to be one of those times.

    But if you say enough Bullshit it sounds plausible and leaves people like us to spend our time disproving mistruths because we know every dumbass Trump supporter will be spouting this talking point as a distraction to actual illegal behavior that has happened in broad daylight. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,795
    edited August 2022
    tbergs said:
    static111 said:
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/judge-mar-a-lago-epstein-00050739

    Was not in fact Epstein's attorney.  Represented several Epstein employees. Records show that this big money dem donor donated $4500 to mixed D and r candidates over several election cycles.

    "He worked as a federal prosecutor until Jan. 1, 2008, when a day later he became a defense attorney representing employees of Epstein, according to a 2018 story by the Miami Herald. According to the Herald, the employees included pilots for Epstein, his scheduler and a woman who had been described by some of Epstein’s victims as his sex slave. Epstein committed suicide in a Manhattan federal jail in 2019 while awaiting trial for sex trafficking.

    The Herald also reported that in 2011, Reinhart was named in a lawsuit where he was accused of violating Justice Department policies by representing the employees. Reinhart denied the allegations and said he did not participate in Epstein’s criminal case and did not learn any confidential information while working as a prosecutor."


    Sometimes a conspiracy is afoot, this doesn't appear to be one of those times.

    But if you say enough Bullshit it sounds plausible and leaves people like us to spend our time disproving mistruths because we know every dumbass Trump supporter will be spouting this talking point as a distraction to actual illegal behavior that has happened in broad daylight. 
    "Flood the zone with shit" 

    This isn't a secret strategy, they're quite open & honest about it, and there's plenty of people w/ zero shame willing to help them do just that, as evidenced here.
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,171
    THE FIELD
    Static you compared this to qanon stuff yesterday....lol....this one is on you

    hahah
    Touché
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    2021
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    1. Judge was not Epstein's attorney and the magistrate was appointed by district judges, some of whom were Trump appointees
    2. They returned the passports.  They were not active.  Two were expired and the third was diplomatic, which is no longer valid.  
    3. The FBI did not 'admit' to taking ACP docs.  You write it like it's a crime or unusual.  During white collar crime searches, you always have a Taint Team go through the docs to determine if anything is privileged.  This is standard procedure and not 'biased'.  

    And most importantly, none of this is exculpatory.  As usual, you post a bunch of random bullshit that has nothing to do with the actual issue.  LBJ was president in 1968, not 1978.  And if the FBI and NARA demands return of documents, you turn them over or argue it out in court.  Trump didn't do that.  Instead, he had his lawyers sign an affidavit that no other classified or gov't docs were in his possession.  That was a lie.  Why don't you address that lie?
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,795
    mrussel1 said:
    Unsurprisingly the supporters of the left fell for this as well.  They’ll never learn, and their blind hope continues to unravel them.

    this was an FBI attempt to take back the incriminating crossfire hurricane documents he has in his possession before they hit the public.  If there was anything here, it would have already been leaked.  That is the way the demon rats work, they leak things to their aiding press to drum up public support before anything else.  No leaks? No truth.

    -judge who ok’d this was not only Epstein’s attorney (gross) but a big donor to the dems
    -they already took his passports, denied it, then were shown the receipts
    -they just admitted to taking docs with lawyer confidentiality.

    I’m sure you all know, but Obama was given the right to scan all the files he took with him before returning them.  This was apparently a huge quantity.  Bush still has thousands of unreturned docs in his possession.  The LBJ library contains piles of docs requested by never returned to Capitol Hill.  This is a normal occurrence for former presidents to take, yet they’re shaking in their pants over the release of more incriminating evidence of the gov’t’s own illegal bias and unwarranted spying. This once again comes down to the swamp, and those in power afraid of an outsider with nothing to lose being in office once again and sending them packing. 

    Durham has some folks actin’ a fool. 

    This will backfire once again.  Those who don’t see it for what it is are too far gone, the world has moved on without you.
    1. Judge was not Epstein's attorney and the magistrate was appointed by district judges, some of whom were Trump appointees
    2. They returned the passports.  They were not active.  Two were expired and the third was diplomatic, which is no longer valid.  
    3. The FBI did not 'admit' to taking ACP docs.  You write it like it's a crime or unusual.  During white collar crime searches, you always have a Taint Team go through the docs to determine if anything is privileged.  This is standard procedure and not 'biased'.  

    And most importantly, none of this is exculpatory.  As usual, you post a bunch of random bullshit that has nothing to do with the actual issue.  LBJ was president in 1968, not 1978.  And if the FBI and NARA demands return of documents, you turn them over or argue it out in court.  Trump didn't do that.  Instead, he had his lawyers sign an affidavit that no other classified or gov't docs were in his possession.  That was a lie.  Why don't you address that lie?
    Because "flood the zone with shit". 
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