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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    gift article....


      Florida surgeon general defies science amid measles outbreak
    By Lena H. Sun and Lauren Weber
    February 22, 2024 at 20:02 ET
    As a Florida elementary school tries to contain a growing measles outbreak, the state’s top health official is giving advice that runs counter to science and may leave unvaccinated children at risk of contracting one of the most contagious pathogens on Earth, clinicians and public health experts said.
    Florida surgeon general Joseph A. Ladapo failed to urge parents to vaccinate their children or keep unvaccinated students home from school as a precaution in a letter to parents at the Fort Lauderdale-area school this week following six confirmed measles cases.
    Instead of following what he acknowledged was the “normal” recommendation that parents keep unvaccinated children home for up to 21 days — the incubation period for measles — Ladapo said the state health department “is deferring to parents or guardians to make decisions about school attendance.”
    The controversial move by Ladapo follows a pattern of bucking public health norms, particularly when it comes to vaccines. Last month, he called for halting the use of mRNA coronavirus vaccines, in a move decried by the public health community.
    Ben Hoffman, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, said Florida’s guidance flies in the face of long-standing and widely accepted public health guidance for measles, which can result in severe complications, including death.
    “It runs counter to everything I have ever heard and everything that I have read,” Hoffman said. “It runs counter to our policy. It runs counter to what the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] would recommend.”

    continues....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,708
    "We need to have more kids."

    "This legislation literally prevents that from happening, so what do you so to those who can't have more kids now?"

    "Well, we need to have more kids."
    Not to mention the fact that he’s saying immigrants are less than with this sentiment. 
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,190
    "We need to have more kids."

    "This legislation literally prevents that from happening, so what do you so to those who can't have more kids now?"

    "Well, we need to have more kids."
    don't forget the "its a hard one. it's a hard issue."

    what a maroon....
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    "We need to have more kids."

    "This legislation literally prevents that from happening, so what do you so to those who can't have more kids now?"

    "Well, we need to have more kids."
    don't forget the "its a hard one. it's a hard issue."

    what a maroon....

    ultra maroon
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    the I was against it before I was for it for election purposes strategy at work....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,358
    Is it true Moses is refusing to sit new elected Suozzi?
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    edited February 24
    Is it true Moses is refusing to sit new elected Suozzi?

    not in session at the moment might be why?
    usual order for a new congress....


    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    edited February 25
    Will Haley quit or keep going?
    Gift article:

    South Carolina Primary Live Updates: Trump Defeats Haley, Delivering a Crushing Blow in Her Home State


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    brianlux said:
    Will Haley quit or keep going?
    Gift article:

    South Carolina Primary Live Updates: Trump Defeats Haley, Delivering a Crushing Blow in Her Home State



    said she's staying in til super Tuesday.  at least.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    the question becomes, what do those voters who chose her or others instead of fuckstick do in the general?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,358
    They’ll vote for idiot! How humbling must it be for Haley she’s loosing to a total buffoon 😂 it’s great to watch 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    They’ll vote for idiot! How humbling must it be for Haley she’s loosing to a total buffoon 😂 it’s great to watch 

    remains to be seen, but plenty say they are a hard no on fuckstick. so cast for Biden or leave blank?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,726
    ‘Murica’s march towards authoritarianism continues unabated.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,141
    They’ll vote for idiot! How humbling must it be for Haley she’s loosing to a total buffoon 😂 it’s great to watch 
    What the hell is great about it? Policy differences are one thing, trump is another 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    mickeyrat said:
    the question becomes, what do those voters who chose her or others instead of fuckstick do in the general?

    Hopefully, some will vote for Biden.  One can only hope anyway.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    Here's what you get for 45 cents:
    No photo description available

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,358
    They’ll vote for idiot! How humbling must it be for Haley she’s loosing to a total buffoon 😂 it’s great to watch 
    What the hell is great about it? Policy differences are one thing, trump is another 
    It’s great watching her getting humble pie she’s been in his corner for years and now that she’s trying to unseat him she’s going nowhere! Even with her trying to distancing herself from him, she’s swimming against the orange currents. 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,141
    They’ll vote for idiot! How humbling must it be for Haley she’s loosing to a total buffoon 😂 it’s great to watch 
    What the hell is great about it? Policy differences are one thing, trump is another 
    It’s great watching her getting humble pie she’s been in his corner for years and now that she’s trying to unseat him she’s going nowhere! Even with her trying to distancing herself from him, she’s swimming against the orange currents. 
    Ugh, I hate thoughts like these…you hate Trump with a passion but can take pleasure in him beating someone who is trying to keep him from the White House. So weird is the best way I can put it.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,190
    i just realized we have been hearing about orange don every single day in the news since 2015. 9 years.  i wish it would just end. i'm so sick of hearing about him.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    i just realized we have been hearing about orange don every single day in the news since 2015. 9 years.  i wish it would just end. i'm so sick of hearing about him.

    Exactly the same feeling here.  I wake up, check the news, and there's that ugly face of his on just about any front page.  I can't even imagine how many times I hear myself say, "Fuck that guy."  I will be so glad when the day comes where he will fade away or... well, I won't say what else, but I can think it.  I'm not a hateful person, but I truly hate that man.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,726
    brianlux said:
    i just realized we have been hearing about orange don every single day in the news since 2015. 9 years.  i wish it would just end. i'm so sick of hearing about him.

    Exactly the same feeling here.  I wake up, check the news, and there's that ugly face of his on just about any front page.  I can't even imagine how many times I hear myself say, "Fuck that guy."  I will be so glad when the day comes where he will fade away or... well, I won't say what else, but I can think it.  I'm not a hateful person, but I truly hate that man.
    Seems like he’s struggling to cross the stage.


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,726
    mickeyrat said:
    Fuck the children unless they're an embryo frozen in a can with liquid nitrogen. Then they need to be let out, or not put there in the first place so people who can't have children can have children and when they do, if they're poor, they can starve. Because, you know, pro-life.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,726

    It’s bad enough if Republicans were simply reckless in attempting to smear the president; it would be quite stunning if they knew this was another Russian influence scheme. “DOJ must investigate whether and when Grassley, Comer or Jordan knew that Smirnov was spreading Russian disinformation,” Rep. Dan Goldman (D-N.Y.) warned. At a Thursday news conference, Goldman said of the impeachment effort, “There’s no question this is dead. To the extent that they continue to push forward with it, they are now doing it with a knowing asset of Russian intelligence.” He underscored, “It is one thing to lead an investigation where you fail to find evidence to support unfounded conclusions. It is altogether something else when you are acting as an agent of Vladimir Putin.”

    Republicans have built their entire oversight operation on rooting out the “weaponization of government” as a tool for accusing Democrats of misdeeds. Talk about projection. As former FBI agent Rangappa told me, “It seems like Comer’s impeachment inquiry is the real ‘weaponization committee’ — weaponized by Russia, that is.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/25/smirnov-arrest-republicans-impeachment-biden/




    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,245
    Can the GOP really be dumb enough to have Lara Trump in charge of the RNC?  I mean that's like handing that family the keys to the Brinks truck.   You would think they couldn't possibly be this dumb but it sure looks like they might be.
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,048
    pjhawks said:
    Can the GOP really be dumb enough to have Lara Trump in charge of the RNC?  I mean that's like handing that family the keys to the Brinks truck.   You would think they couldn't possibly be this dumb but it sure looks like they might be.

    the intention is right out front and public......  Mi and Az GOP state parties are broke..... might expect a couple others are close to that as well....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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