Knock-off vinyl LP labels you might want to avoid.

brianlux

dankind said:

Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!

dankind

brianlux said:

dankind said:

Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!

Sucks because they’re handling US pressings of REM reissues. I’ve just been buying EU pressings. 

That RSD NIN Halo set was the worst vinyl I’ve ever purchased. 

Shady as fuck the way they packaged that. 

brianlux

dankind said:

brianlux said:

dankind said:

Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!

Sucks because they’re handling US pressings of REM reissues. I’ve just been buying EU pressings. 

That RSD NIN Halo set was the worst vinyl I’ve ever purchased. 

Shady as fuck the way they packaged that. 

I noticed that a lot of their catalog us R.E.M.  Bummer that that band didn't go with someone more reputable.   I'm guessing it was out of their hands though.

And hey, as a side note, if you''re an R.E.M. fan, maybe check out some of the records/CD's by The Baseball Project.  Both Peter Buck and Mike Mills worked with that band.  Some really good stuff there!

AndySlash

uh, concord is one of the largest music enterprises today:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(entertainment_company)

r.e.m. chose craft recordings (under the concord banner) to release their music once their warners deal expired.

so, yes, while some of their physical product may be lacking in quality, concord can’t really be labeled as not reputable or as shady- they are a legit company, and one of the biggest in music.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/concord-has-spent-over-1bn-on-acquisitions-in-past-14-years-meet-the-exec-sniffing-out-the-deals/

the mixed reviews on discogs aren’t surprising. the r.e.m. stuff i have from craft isn’t that good. but stuff i have from other sub-labels is good to great. there’s a lot more going on there than just being a part of the concord conglomerate.

brianlux

AndySlash said:

uh, concord is one of the largest music enterprises today:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(entertainment_company)

r.e.m. chose craft recordings (under the concord banner) to release their music once their warners deal expired.

so, yes, while some of their physical product may be lacking in quality, concord can’t really be labeled as not reputable or as shady- they are a legit company, and one of the biggest in music.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/concord-has-spent-over-1bn-on-acquisitions-in-past-14-years-meet-the-exec-sniffing-out-the-deals/

the mixed reviews on discogs aren’t surprising. the r.e.m. stuff i have from craft isn’t that good. but stuff i have from other sub-labels is good to great. there’s a lot more going on there than just being a part of the concord conglomerate.

I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".  In fact, I find it often means a product is pushed faster and corners are cut to make the parent company bigger.  On the other end of the spectrum are labels like Analogue Productions, Blue Note Tone Poet Audiophile, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab and a few others that may be smaller companies, but their quality is much better.  And there are some decent labels that fall between the two.  Run Out Groove is a small company, for example, that has pressed some affordable but killer vinyl.  

Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?  I cut no slack for companies that way.  I say, do it right or don't do it at all.  As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.  In any case, I'm just glad and damn lucky that the dozen or so of their albums that I have on vinyl are ones I bought when they were first released. 

Well, anyway, I'm glad you've had some success with Craft/Concord.  However, reading what dankind said and seeing some negative reviews leaves me wary and I would want to research any of their product before shelling out the cash for it.  I'm not a tightwad, but money's tight these days and I try to get the best I can with what I have.

DewieCox

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

LukinFan

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 

AndySlash

brianlux said:

I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".

i'm not arguing this point.

brianlux said:

Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?

i'm not arguing this point, either.

i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post. they are a legit music company and have labels with artists specifically signed to them. several of the ones mentioned in the first post do not, often used cd sourced material, and the provenance of their product is suspect. those are the shady knock-off labels that i *thought* were being discussed in this thread. dankind even specifically noted that concord is not a knock off label but some of their product is of suspect quality.

brianlux said:

As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

well, okay, i guess. stick with analogue productions and the like then, because any normal label will be shady under these terms. price will often be an indicator of quality, and if anyone was expecting an audiophile quality pressing of 'automatic for the people' at the $20-25 price point in 2020 then i don't know what to say. and again, i'm not defending this practice. the best thing you can do, as you have said you already do, is research the pressing details of the album you're interested in. with concord and their labels, their records are pressed at a number of facilities, so of course there are going to be mixed reviews. the issue with the knock off labels starts with their questionable sources, lack of artist involvement, and poor if unknown pressing information. with concord (or universal or sony or warners or...), the artist relationship is there, the sources are there, it's what the individual artists/labels decide to do with their manufacturing that results in a quality product or not. so just because it says concord on it doesn't mean it should be automatically dismissed, like you would dox or wax-time because you already know they are knock off labels, which is what this thread was started about.

brianlux said:

As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.

do you follow r.e.m. at all? because they had all the chips in their hands when deciding what to do with their future post-warners. and they chose craft. call it a bad decision, i won't argue that, but they had all the power there.

brianlux

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

LukinFan said:

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTX unplugged Alice in Chains vinyl MOV a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 

I have a couple of LP's on MOV- Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue and J Mascis's Live at CBGB.  The Wilson sounds fine and the Mascis was poorly recorded so it doesn't matter much (it's more a curiosity for fans than anything anyway).  But I've heard others mention bad experiences with MOV.  If I really wanted a reissue because an original was out of my price range, I might chance another MOV, but from what I've heard, I'm more likely to try to track down an affordable original pressing. 

brianlux

AndySlash said:

brianlux said:

I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".

i'm not arguing this point.

brianlux said:

Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?

i'm not arguing this point, either.

i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post. they are a legit music company and have labels with artists specifically signed to them. several of the ones mentioned in the first post do not, often used cd sourced material, and the provenance of their product is suspect. those are the shady knock-off labels that i *thought* were being discussed in this thread. dankind even specifically noted that concord is not a knock off label but some of their product is of suspect quality.

brianlux said:

As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

well, okay, i guess. stick with analogue productions and the like then, because any normal label will be shady under these terms. price will often be an indicator of quality, and if anyone was expecting an audiophile quality pressing of 'automatic for the people' at the $20-25 price point in 2020 then i don't know what to say. and again, i'm not defending this practice. the best thing you can do, as you have said you already do, is research the pressing details of the album you're interested in. with concord and their labels, their records are pressed at a number of facilities, so of course there are going to be mixed reviews. the issue with the knock off labels starts with their questionable sources, lack of artist involvement, and poor if unknown pressing information. with concord (or universal or sony or warners or...), the artist relationship is there, the sources are there, it's what the individual artists/labels decide to do with their manufacturing that results in a quality product or not. so just because it says concord on it doesn't mean it should be automatically dismissed, like you would dox or wax-time because you already know they are knock off labels, which is what this thread was started about.

brianlux said:

As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.

do you follow r.e.m. at all? because they had all the chips in their hands when deciding what to do with their future post-warners. and they chose craft. call it a bad decision, i won't argue that, but they had all the power there.

"i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post". 

Yeah, no doubt true.  But I'm still put off by what I've heard re. the quality of Craft/Concord pressings.  Sorry you were offended by my comments about them.

"do you follow r.e.m. at all?"

The last R.E.M. record I really liked was New Adventures in Hi-Fi.    I always have long felt with R.E.M., the earlier the stuff, the better.

Are you a The Baseball Project fan?  If not, you might enjoy some of their records-  they made 4 records on one live on FLAC/MP3.  Unfortunately,   most of them are hard to find/ very pricey on vinyl.  Peter Buck and Mike Mills are in that side-project band.  Nothing earth chattering, but some fine music there.

1ThoughtKnown

LukinFan said:

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 

My MOV copy of AIC Unplugged is awesome. One of the better sounding records in my collection.  No skips. 

In fact, most of my MOV Reissues are great. Some of the great sounding reissues I own are:
Swervedriver - Mezcal Head
Swervedriver - Raise
Type-O-Negative - Bloody Kisses
Therapy? - Nurse
Screaming Trees - Sweet Oblivion

I’m sure I have more but those immediately come to mind. When I see a MOV pressing, I buy with confidence. 

dankind

1ThoughtKnown said:

LukinFan said:

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. hi-res 

My MOV copy of AIC Unplugged is awesome. One of the better sounding records in my collection.  No skips. 

In fact, most of my MOV Reissues are great. Some of the great sounding reissues I own are:
Swervedriver - Mezcal Head
Swervedriver - Raise
Type-O-Negative - Bloody Kisses
Therapy? - Nurse
Screaming Trees - Sweet Oblivion

I’m sure I have more but those immediately come to mind. When I see a MOV pressing, I buy with confidence. 

Most of my MOV slabs have been great, but most of the jackets for those same slabs have what appear to be scanned low-res images for covers. Since MOV stands for music on vinyl and not hi-res imagery on cardboard, I'm OK with making stopgap purchases through them. Hopefully, something better comes along; if not, I still have a great-sounding record in a jacket that looks like someone took a cellphone photo of the original artwork and pasted it there.

DewieCox

My complaint is that they are flimsy and $40-50.

LukinFan

1ThoughtKnown said:

LukinFan said:

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 

My MOV copy of AIC Unplugged is awesome. One of the better sounding records in my collection.  No skips. 

In fact, most of my MOV Reissues are great. Some of the great sounding reissues I own are:
Swervedriver - Mezcal Head
Swervedriver - Raise
Type-O-Negative - Bloody Kisses
Therapy? - Nurse
Screaming Trees - Sweet Oblivion

I’m sure I have more but those immediately come to mind. When I see a MOV pressing, I buy with confidence. 

That's good to hear. Maybe I'll give it another chance. When you get back to back albums and they both skip at the same point, you become weary. It's a killer live album that I'd love to own. 

Spiritual_Chaos

Is the AIC release gatefold or two discs tucked into the same slot.

Spiritual_Chaos

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

Sounds like this fit MONDO and their stuff. Their Twin Peaks release is suppose to sound terrible.

deadendp

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is the AIC release gatefold or two discs tucked into the same slot.

Gatefold. 

1ThoughtKnown

DewieCox said:

My complaint is that they are flimsy and $40-50.

Well I geek right out and place the sleeves in a sealed cover with a disc pocket.  The wax goes in the MoFi sleeves with any inserts in the disc pocket so I never really handle the sleeve.  They could do a better job of packaging I will agree, but I’m more concerned about the sound and quality of the record. 

DewieCox

My MOV AIC Unplugged is the single jacket/non gatefold type. 

brianlux

dankind said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

LukinFan said:

DewieCox said:

Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. hi-res 

My MOV copy of AIC Unplugged is awesome. One of the better sounding records in my collection.  No skips. 

In fact, most of my MOV Reissues are great. Some of the great sounding reissues I own are:
Swervedriver - Mezcal Head
Swervedriver - Raise
Type-O-Negative - Bloody Kisses
Therapy? - Nurse
Screaming Trees - Sweet Oblivion

I’m sure I have more but those immediately come to mind. When I see a MOV pressing, I buy with confidence. 

Most of my MOV slabs have been great, but most of the jackets for those same slabs have what appear to be scanned low-res images for covers. Since MOV stands for music on vinyl and not hi-res imagery on cardboard, I'm OK with making stopgap purchases through them. Hopefully, something better comes along; if not, I still have a great-sounding record in a jacket that looks like someone took a cellphone photo of the original artwork and pasted it there.

"slabs"  LOL- that's a new one on me! 

"not hi-res imagery on cardboard"  Your on a role!