Knock-off vinyl LP labels you might want to avoid.

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
Last week, I did some research to root out as many records labels as possible that I want to avoid.  With vinyl having become a still on-going fad (not to me- I buy vinyl because like getting as close to analog sound as possible), I came up with a list of labels that, to the best of my knowledge, are ones that produce vinyl off of CDs or other marginal digital sources.  Now, it is true that many digital age vinyl LPs are mastered from a non-CD digital source, but they still sound better to me than records made from CDs that are highly compressed (aka "loudness wars" material). 

The list of knock-off record labels I avoid:

DOL
Wax-Time
4 Men With Beards
Doxy
Vinyl Lovers
Simply Vinyl
Abraxas


“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited August 2020
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    edited August 2020
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Post edited by brianlux on
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited August 2020
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    edited August 2020
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Post edited by deadendp on
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • LoujoeLoujoe Posts: 7,597
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    It just dawned on me that perhaps I should have posted this under "gearheads".  Doh! :lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • LoujoeLoujoe Posts: 7,597
    Thanks for the info^^^
    Good on the heads up for bad record pressings too!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    Loujoe said:
    Thanks for the info^^^
    Good on the heads up for bad record pressings too!

    Sure thing, LJ! :smile:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    You make it sound like my turntable is the equivalent of spinning my vinyl on the driveway gravel. :lol:  
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,410
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    You make it sound like my turntable is the equivalent of spinning my vinyl on the driveway gravel. :lol:  
    AT has well reviewed entry models for 100 or so.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    You make it sound like my turntable is the equivalent of spinning my vinyl on the driveway gravel. :lol:  

    Oh, hey, sorry, no, really, everybody gets to do their thing.  :smile:  Just throwing thoughts out there.  Have fun with what you have, seriously.  I'm 69 and it took me from middle school years until around 2005  to get some decent gear together.

    My first set up back in around 1968 was really funky.  One day, I was given an old cast-off Gerard turntable.  I already had a guitar amp-  a '65 Fender DeLuxe Reverb. I took the wire ends off from the turntable wires and stripped them back and twisted them together with the stripped back wires of a guitar cable that had one end chopped off.  I had no idea if plugging my turntable into a guitar amp would work.  At the first try, I plugged the spliced cable into the amp (a '65 Fender DeLuxe reverb), hit the power switch, turned up the volume, and put on Are You Experienced. It not only worked, it prompted a rather loud, "Turn that damn thing down!" from the folks in the other room. :lol:  Good times!

    Oh, and it was fun to add reverb to the records even though it got old fast.  Also, the next year, putting the amp in a window with a recording of a jet airplane taking off, and cranking the amp to 10 drew some interesting looks from outside my dorm room.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,865
    brianlux said:

    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    Cosign this. 

    I tell people who are ask me similar questions that if its more as a lark and something cool to have, don't bother, its a money pit. But if they want to collect and really play them, I also recommend the 120 or if they want to go a touch bigger, the U Turn.

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    brianlux said:

    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    Cosign this. 

    I tell people who are ask me similar questions that if its more as a lark and something cool to have, don't bother, its a money pit. But if they want to collect and really play them, I also recommend the 120 or if they want to go a touch bigger, the U Turn.


    A money pit it is! 

    The more I learn about turntables, the harder it is not to want to upgrade.  I sometimes consider going as far as the Rega Planar 3 with black Elys 2 cart but, ouch, $1,145 is just a BIG stretch I hesitate to go to.  And then there's the Rega Planar 6, or the...LOL

    Yep, a money pit!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    You make it sound like my turntable is the equivalent of spinning my vinyl on the driveway gravel. :lol:  

    Oh, hey, sorry, no, really, everybody gets to do their thing.  :smile:  Just throwing thoughts out there.  Have fun with what you have, seriously.  I'm 69 and it took me from middle school years until around 2005  to get some decent gear together.

    My first set up back in around 1968 was really funky.  One day, I was given an old cast-off Gerard turntable.  I already had a guitar amp-  a '65 Fender DeLuxe Reverb. I took the wire ends off from the turntable wires and stripped them back and twisted them together with the stripped back wires of a guitar cable that had one end chopped off.  I had no idea if plugging my turntable into a guitar amp would work.  At the first try, I plugged the spliced cable into the amp (a '65 Fender DeLuxe reverb), hit the power switch, turned up the volume, and put on Are You Experienced. It not only worked, it prompted a rather loud, "Turn that damn thing down!" from the folks in the other room. :lol:  Good times!

    Oh, and it was fun to add reverb to the records even though it got old fast.  Also, the next year, putting the amp in a window with a recording of a jet airplane taking off, and cranking the amp to 10 drew some interesting looks from outside my dorm room.
    My husband is a Sony man, so he bought me a Sony turntable.  Not the most expensive, but sounds great.  He got it for something like half off because it was an open box and didn't work.  He brought it home and discovered that it only needed the belt attached.  Voila! 

    Yeah, I have a 16 year old with a car and insurance rates that went up substantially.  It'll be a long while before mama can upgrade.  :lol:  
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    deadendp said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Thanks Brian! Very helpful. 
    Nothing worse than a brickwalled CD pressed to vinyl. Awful. 

    Total agree, 1Thought!  :plus_one:

    And thank you- "brickwalled" was the term I couldn't remember!
    Loudness wars is a good way to put it though 😂

    Sadly, I’ve got two official represses that are Brickwalled (worst records in my collection)
     - The Tea Party Splendor Solis
    - RHCP Californication 2019 repress 

    So frustrating!  I had purchases a few re-issues years back without the knowledge that many records are pressed off brickwalled CD's.  One in particular was a copy of Paul Butterfield Blues Band's East West.  It sounded terrible.   Luckily, a few years later I found an early pressing that is in great shape and the difference is phenomenal.   It's really sad that the buying public is being duped by many unsuspecting vinyl fans- especially folks who are just getting into it. 

    The same is true for record players- cheap record players like Crosleys that at best should only be used by kids who want to spin playable beaters that are already trashed.  I wish they would issue warnings with those cheap players that ruin good records by causing inner groove wear and general groove damage. 
    And they sound positively terrible.  My husband was determined to buy his parents a record player for Christmas.  Knowing that they would hardly ever use it, I told him not to spend a ton.  He found them a Crosley in an open box from Amazon and we paid maybe $35 for it.  My mother-in-law keeps their old records on top of it with a big shell.  (I have no idea why.)  We knew not to invest good money in it because we knew they would spin something a few times and then be done.  
    Good move!
    Loujoe said:
    Whats a good cheap record player that wont ruin records?

    Depending on what is cheap, I would say for something new, "none".  The lowest I would go new would maybe be an Audio Technica ATLP120 which runs about $250.   Personally, if I were unable to afford a quality turntable, I would look for something used and replace the cartridge.  I have a Pro-ject Carbon debut with a red Ortofon cartridge that today runs about $400.  It's considered the low end of "good".  The cartridge is an upgrade though, so I think it's safe to use and I've replaced the cartridge once and will probably do that again in another year or so.  The standard recommendation for hours on a cartridge before replacing is said to be 1,000 hours of play time.

    My honest take is that unless a person is willing to invest some money and their vinyl interest is more casual or curious and they are good with digital, I would probably save my money and stick with CDs or downloads.
    You make it sound like my turntable is the equivalent of spinning my vinyl on the driveway gravel. :lol:  

    Oh, hey, sorry, no, really, everybody gets to do their thing.  :smile:  Just throwing thoughts out there.  Have fun with what you have, seriously.  I'm 69 and it took me from middle school years until around 2005  to get some decent gear together.

    My first set up back in around 1968 was really funky.  One day, I was given an old cast-off Gerard turntable.  I already had a guitar amp-  a '65 Fender DeLuxe Reverb. I took the wire ends off from the turntable wires and stripped them back and twisted them together with the stripped back wires of a guitar cable that had one end chopped off.  I had no idea if plugging my turntable into a guitar amp would work.  At the first try, I plugged the spliced cable into the amp (a '65 Fender DeLuxe reverb), hit the power switch, turned up the volume, and put on Are You Experienced. It not only worked, it prompted a rather loud, "Turn that damn thing down!" from the folks in the other room. :lol:  Good times!

    Oh, and it was fun to add reverb to the records even though it got old fast.  Also, the next year, putting the amp in a window with a recording of a jet airplane taking off, and cranking the amp to 10 drew some interesting looks from outside my dorm room.
    My husband is a Sony man, so he bought me a Sony turntable.  Not the most expensive, but sounds great.  He got it for something like half off because it was an open box and didn't work.  He brought it home and discovered that it only needed the belt attached.  Voila! 

    Yeah, I have a 16 year old with a car and insurance rates that went up substantially.  It'll be a long while before mama can upgrade.  :lol:  

    Oh ouch- I was that kid once upon a time!  :lol: 

    Good deal on the Sony TT.  Sony makes good stuff for the money.  I have a Sony DVD player that's gotten a lot of use and it's outlived its life expectancy by two or three times!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,865
    My first TT was a Sony. I got it in 95. Lasted a good 10 years.

  • LukinFanLukinFan Florida Posts: 28,971
     I have a Sony as well. It's my wife's parents old turntable from the late 1970s. Still runs great. Sounds great. 
    www.RLMcDaniel.com

    1996: Ft Lauderdale
    1998: Birmingham
    2000: Charlotte, Tampa
    2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
    2004: Kissimmee
    2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
    2010: MSG2
    2012: Music Midtown
    2014: Memphis
    2016: Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville, JazzFest
    2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1
    2022: Nashville
    2023: Ft. Worth II
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    dankind said:
    Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

    I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    brianlux said:
    dankind said:
    Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

    I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!
    Sucks because they’re handling US pressings of REM reissues. I’ve just been buying EU pressings. 

    That RSD NIN Halo set was the worst vinyl I’ve ever purchased. 

    Shady as fuck the way they packaged that. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    dankind said:
    brianlux said:
    dankind said:
    Not a knockoff/boot label, but Concord Bicycle is absolute shite. 

    I hadn't heard of them before.  I checked out a few reviews on discogs for some of their releases and they're very mixed.  Some people said the quality is great, others felt the same way as you- that they are crap. Look like a possible label to avoid so thanks for the heads up!
    Sucks because they’re handling US pressings of REM reissues. I’ve just been buying EU pressings. 

    That RSD NIN Halo set was the worst vinyl I’ve ever purchased. 

    Shady as fuck the way they packaged that. 

    I noticed that a lot of their catalog us R.E.M.  Bummer that that band didn't go with someone more reputable.   I'm guessing it was out of their hands though.

    And hey, as a side note, if you''re an R.E.M. fan, maybe check out some of the records/CD's by The Baseball Project.  Both Peter Buck and Mike Mills worked with that band.  Some really good stuff there!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • AndySlashAndySlash Posts: 3,204
    edited August 2020
    uh, concord is one of the largest music enterprises today:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(entertainment_company)

    r.e.m. chose craft recordings (under the concord banner) to release their music once their warners deal expired.

    so, yes, while some of their physical product may be lacking in quality, concord can’t really be labeled as not reputable or as shady- they are a legit company, and one of the biggest in music.

    https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/concord-has-spent-over-1bn-on-acquisitions-in-past-14-years-meet-the-exec-sniffing-out-the-deals/

    the mixed reviews on discogs aren’t surprising. the r.e.m. stuff i have from craft isn’t that good. but stuff i have from other sub-labels is good to great. there’s a lot more going on there than just being a part of the concord conglomerate.
    Post edited by AndySlash on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    AndySlash said:
    uh, concord is one of the largest music enterprises today:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(entertainment_company)

    r.e.m. chose craft recordings (under the concord banner) to release their music once their warners deal expired.

    so, yes, while some of their physical product may be lacking in quality, concord can’t really be labeled as not reputable or as shady- they are a legit company, and one of the biggest in music.

    https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/concord-has-spent-over-1bn-on-acquisitions-in-past-14-years-meet-the-exec-sniffing-out-the-deals/

    the mixed reviews on discogs aren’t surprising. the r.e.m. stuff i have from craft isn’t that good. but stuff i have from other sub-labels is good to great. there’s a lot more going on there than just being a part of the concord conglomerate.
    I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".  In fact, I find it often means a product is pushed faster and corners are cut to make the parent company bigger.  On the other end of the spectrum are labels like Analogue Productions, Blue Note Tone Poet Audiophile, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab and a few others that may be smaller companies, but their quality is much better.  And there are some decent labels that fall between the two.  Run Out Groove is a small company, for example, that has pressed some affordable but killer vinyl.  

    Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?  I cut no slack for companies that way.  I say, do it right or don't do it at all.  As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

    As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.  In any case, I'm just glad and damn lucky that the dozen or so of their albums that I have on vinyl are ones I bought when they were first released. 

    Well, anyway, I'm glad you've had some success with Craft/Concord.  However, reading what dankind said and seeing some negative reviews leaves me wary and I would want to research any of their product before shelling out the cash for it.  I'm not a tightwad, but money's tight these days and I try to get the best I can with what I have.


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,411
    Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 
  • LukinFanLukinFan Florida Posts: 28,971
    edited August 2020
    DewieCox said:
    Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 
    I had bought an MTV unplugged Alice in Chains MOV vinyl a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 
    Post edited by LukinFan on
    www.RLMcDaniel.com

    1996: Ft Lauderdale
    1998: Birmingham
    2000: Charlotte, Tampa
    2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
    2004: Kissimmee
    2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
    2010: MSG2
    2012: Music Midtown
    2014: Memphis
    2016: Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville, JazzFest
    2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1
    2022: Nashville
    2023: Ft. Worth II
  • AndySlashAndySlash Posts: 3,204
    brianlux said:
    I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".

    i'm not arguing this point.

    brianlux said:
    Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?

    i'm not arguing this point, either.

    i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post. they are a legit music company and have labels with artists specifically signed to them. several of the ones mentioned in the first post do not, often used cd sourced material, and the provenance of their product is suspect. those are the shady knock-off labels that i *thought* were being discussed in this thread. dankind even specifically noted that concord is not a knock off label but some of their product is of suspect quality.

    brianlux said:
    As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

    well, okay, i guess. stick with analogue productions and the like then, because any normal label will be shady under these terms. price will often be an indicator of quality, and if anyone was expecting an audiophile quality pressing of 'automatic for the people' at the $20-25 price point in 2020 then i don't know what to say. and again, i'm not defending this practice. the best thing you can do, as you have said you already do, is research the pressing details of the album you're interested in. with concord and their labels, their records are pressed at a number of facilities, so of course there are going to be mixed reviews. the issue with the knock off labels starts with their questionable sources, lack of artist involvement, and poor if unknown pressing information. with concord (or universal or sony or warners or...), the artist relationship is there, the sources are there, it's what the individual artists/labels decide to do with their manufacturing that results in a quality product or not. so just because it says concord on it doesn't mean it should be automatically dismissed, like you would dox or wax-time because you already know they are knock off labels, which is what this thread was started about.

    brianlux said:
    As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.

    do you follow r.e.m. at all? because they had all the chips in their hands when deciding what to do with their future post-warners. and they chose craft. call it a bad decision, i won't argue that, but they had all the power there.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    DewieCox said:
    Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 

    LukinFan said:
    DewieCox said:
    Not knockoffs, but  Music On Vinyl stuff has a huge discrepancy between the quality of the vinyl and quality of the packaging. For the cost, both should be top shelf. 
    I had bought an MTX unplugged Alice in Chains vinyl MOV a couple years back, and it skipped a lot. I sent back that copy, got another one, and it did the same. I'm been afraid to try them again. 

    I have a couple of LP's on MOV- Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue and J Mascis's Live at CBGB.  The Wilson sounds fine and the Mascis was poorly recorded so it doesn't matter much (it's more a curiosity for fans than anything anyway).  But I've heard others mention bad experiences with MOV.  If I really wanted a reissue because an original was out of my price range, I might chance another MOV, but from what I've heard, I'm more likely to try to track down an affordable original pressing. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    AndySlash said:
    brianlux said:
    I may be a bit overly wary this way, but "largest" and "biggest" don't always mean "best quality".

    i'm not arguing this point.

    brianlux said:
    Why is it OK that "some of their physical product may be lacking in quality"?

    i'm not arguing this point, either.

    i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post. they are a legit music company and have labels with artists specifically signed to them. several of the ones mentioned in the first post do not, often used cd sourced material, and the provenance of their product is suspect. those are the shady knock-off labels that i *thought* were being discussed in this thread. dankind even specifically noted that concord is not a knock off label but some of their product is of suspect quality.

    brianlux said:
    As far as "shady" goes, they may be legitimate  but cutting corners on quality to me is at least somewhat shady.

    well, okay, i guess. stick with analogue productions and the like then, because any normal label will be shady under these terms. price will often be an indicator of quality, and if anyone was expecting an audiophile quality pressing of 'automatic for the people' at the $20-25 price point in 2020 then i don't know what to say. and again, i'm not defending this practice. the best thing you can do, as you have said you already do, is research the pressing details of the album you're interested in. with concord and their labels, their records are pressed at a number of facilities, so of course there are going to be mixed reviews. the issue with the knock off labels starts with their questionable sources, lack of artist involvement, and poor if unknown pressing information. with concord (or universal or sony or warners or...), the artist relationship is there, the sources are there, it's what the individual artists/labels decide to do with their manufacturing that results in a quality product or not. so just because it says concord on it doesn't mean it should be automatically dismissed, like you would dox or wax-time because you already know they are knock off labels, which is what this thread was started about.

    brianlux said:
    As for R.E.M., I question how much influence the band members themselves had in making that decision to go with Craft/Concord.  And if they did, that doesn't mean it was a good move.  Bands sometimes make bad choices.

    do you follow r.e.m. at all? because they had all the chips in their hands when deciding what to do with their future post-warners. and they chose craft. call it a bad decision, i won't argue that, but they had all the power there.
    "i am arguing that concord is not in the same category of your dox and wax-time labels in the initial post". 
    Yeah, no doubt true.  But I'm still put off by what I've heard re. the quality of Craft/Concord pressings.  Sorry you were offended by my comments about them.

    "do you follow r.e.m. at all?"
    The last R.E.M. record I really liked was New Adventures in Hi-Fi.    I always have long felt with R.E.M., the earlier the stuff, the better.

    Are you a The Baseball Project fan?  If not, you might enjoy some of their records-  they made 4 records on one live on FLAC/MP3.  Unfortunately,   most of them are hard to find/ very pricey on vinyl.  Peter Buck and Mike Mills are in that side-project band.  Nothing earth chattering, but some fine music there.


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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