Factory farms are as despicable a wet markets.

Smellyman

yes they are.

not to mention fucking cruel

Ledbetterman10

rgambs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

They’re similar for sure. But I think there’s at least some sort of regulations with the factories though. Those wet markets in China look like a free for all. 

Few regulations that have precedence over the obligation to stockholders.

I don’t disagree with that. 

what dreams

Agree 100%. It needs to end.

ICDragons

At least they’re better than they used to be. Ever read The Jungle?

brianlux

ICDragons said:

At least they’re better than they used to be. Ever read The Jungle?

Upton Sinclair, yes, good point.

But in this case, I would say "better" is not nearly good enough.   It falls far short of even reasonably good. 

Some years ago, on a long trip, my wife and I drove past some massive cattle stockyards in southern Kansas- I believe it was between Wichita and Dodge City along US Highway 400.  The stink was overwhelming.  Thousands of cattle all crammed in these huge corralled pens trying to mill around in a thick layer of cow shit with little room to maneuver.  It was disgusting.  This was not very many years ago, not 1943 when The Jungle was written.  I would thing we could have come a lot farther that we have in 77 years.  Sad.

There are alternatives to factory farmed meat, eggs and produce that are much better choices, even for people like us who are below middle income- even us now with no work and no pay checks coming in.   It's doable.

josevolution

We’re about to go vegetarian, yesterday I paid $4.59 per lb of chopped meat and the price of chicken is about to skyrocket! I def can cut out meat from my diet ..

Smellyman

josevolution said:

We’re about to go vegetarian, yesterday I paid $4.59 per lb of chopped meat and the price of chicken is about to skyrocket! I def can cut out meat from my diet ..

It's easy and you will eventually get good at having better tasting meals than now

josevolution

Smellyman said:

josevolution said:

We’re about to go vegetarian, yesterday I paid $4.59 per lb of chopped meat and the price of chicken is about to skyrocket! I def can cut out meat from my diet ..

It's easy and you will eventually get good at having better tasting meals than now

Way back in my life me & close friend of mine were on a macrobiotic diet no sugar no meats , I should of just kept going with it but it’s never too late to start again ..

Bentleyspop

We went Pescatarian/Ovo-Lacto 6 months ago.
Not bothered by the impending meat shortage.
We have a direct pipeline for fresh fish due to my girlfriends son being a spear fisherman in South Florida. So no shortage there.
Hopefully our local farmers market will be able to open in June as planned..

brianlux

josevolution said:

We’re about to go vegetarian, yesterday I paid $4.59 per lb of chopped meat and the price of chicken is about to skyrocket! I def can cut out meat from my diet ..

Same here!

Smellyman said:

josevolution said:

We’re about to go vegetarian, yesterday I paid $4.59 per lb of chopped meat and the price of chicken is about to skyrocket! I def can cut out meat from my diet ..

It's easy and you will eventually get good at having better tasting meals than now

For sure!

Bentleyspop said:

We went Pescatarian/Ovo-Lacto 6 months ago.
Not bothered by the impending meat shortage.
We have a direct pipeline for fresh fish due to my girlfriends son being a spear fisherman in South Florida. So no shortage there.
Hopefully our local farmers market will be able to open in June as planned..

Farmer's Market- way to go!

myoung321

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

static111

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

myoung321

btw -- I went Vegetarian in 2010 after being diagnosed with some serious heart issues and having a couple of surgeries .. I'm still here today and I think my change in diet has a lot to do with that fact....oh and the cardiac ICD that's saved my life a couple of times now..  ...ouch!!!!! 

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/270253/shocked-by-heart-icd-ouch-again-oct-19#latest

brianlux

myoung321 said:

btw -- I went Vegetarian in 2010 after being diagnosed with some serious heart issues and having a couple of surgeries .. I'm still here today and I think my change in diet has a lot to do with that fact....oh and the cardiac ICD that's saved my life a couple of times now..  ...ouch!!!!! 

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/270253/shocked-by-heart-icd-ouch-again-oct-19#latest

I'm glad you're still with us, myoung.  You're a good soul.  Keep up the good health!   

myoung321

brianlux said:

myoung321 said:

btw -- I went Vegetarian in 2010 after being diagnosed with some serious heart issues and having a couple of surgeries .. I'm still here today and I think my change in diet has a lot to do with that fact....oh and the cardiac ICD that's saved my life a couple of times now..  ...ouch!!!!! 

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/270253/shocked-by-heart-icd-ouch-again-oct-19#latest

I'm glad you're still with us, myoung.  You're a good soul.  Keep up the good health!   

Thanks man!... Appreciate that.  

I can't tell anyone what they should eat, but I can share my experience. Becoming a Vegetarian for personal health reasons. How the cardiologist was blown away by my numbers a year after giving up meat.  It then opened my eyes to the facts about factory farming and made me look at the bigger picture, the one I'd ignored and pretended didn't matter for years. Maybe the realization about my own mortality made me look at all life in a different way?  Put it this way....If they could wave a magic wand and cure my heart issues I would not go back to eating animals. 

myoung321

static111 said:

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

Good point... that crap is everywhere

brianlux

myoung321 said:

static111 said:

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

Good point... that crap is everywhere

I used to just figure sugar was sugar until several years ago when I read a book that talked a lot about how bad high fructose corn syrup is for the body.  Wish I could remember what book it was but, man, that got me off that stuff fast!

rgambs

brianlux said:

myoung321 said:

static111 said:

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

Good point... that crap is everywhere

I used to just figure sugar was sugar until several years ago when I read a book that talked a lot about how bad high fructose corn syrup is for the body.  Wish I could remember what book it was but, man, that got me off that stuff fast!

I would be suspicious of that book.  Chemically, to your body, added fructose is fructose, regardless of the source.  If it's bound up in fiber, as it is in fruit, then it's fine.  It's very hard to consume too much fructose in fruit.

The real argument against HFCS is not in what it is to your body, it's the quantity in which it is used, and the environmental impact of producing it.  The environmental impact of replacing all HFCS with granulated sugar, sucrose, would likely be worse, but it also wouldn't be practical.  The bottom line is that added sugar is the enemy nutritionally, and HFCS is easier to produce than traditional sugar so that ease of production and low cost ends with more added sugar in our diets.

All that being said, you can pry added sugars from my cold dead hands lol
Giving up meat altogether (especially factory meat) and living a happy life is entirely possible, giving up cookies and brownies leaves a bleak existence.

brianlux

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

myoung321 said:

static111 said:

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

Good point... that crap is everywhere

I used to just figure sugar was sugar until several years ago when I read a book that talked a lot about how bad high fructose corn syrup is for the body.  Wish I could remember what book it was but, man, that got me off that stuff fast!

I would be suspicious of that book.  Chemically, to your body, added fructose is fructose, regardless of the source.  If it's bound up in fiber, as it is in fruit, then it's fine.  It's very hard to consume too much fructose in fruit.

The real argument against HFCS is not in what it is to your body, it's the quantity in which it is used, and the environmental impact of producing it.  The environmental impact of replacing all HFCS with granulated sugar, sucrose, would likely be worse, but it also wouldn't be practical.  The bottom line is that added sugar is the enemy nutritionally, and HFCS is easier to produce than traditional sugar so that ease of production and low cost ends with more added sugar in our diets.

All that being said, you can pry added sugars from my cold dead hands lol
Giving up meat altogether (especially factory meat) and living a happy life is entirely possible, giving up cookies and brownies leaves a bleak existence.

I would be suspicious of your being suspicious of that book.

No, seriously, it was probably a Bill McKIbben or Richard Manning book- both excellent writers and researchers.  The book was about a lot more than just high fructose corn syrup.   It was also about how mono-cropping vast field of corn is unsound farming practice carried out by big agribusiness.  As a back-to-the-land kind of guy, it's probably one you would like.  I'll try to find it when I get the time.

static111

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

myoung321 said:

static111 said:

myoung321 said:

 These numbers are actually higher... if based on population and vegetarians and vegans weren't counted..  

 




We ate much better prior to cheap processed meats and factory farming... see below..




Wonder why we also lead the world in obesity, heart disease, diabetes etc.. We're #1!!!!  

Don’t forget before High Fructose Corn Syrup was added to everything.

Good point... that crap is everywhere

I used to just figure sugar was sugar until several years ago when I read a book that talked a lot about how bad high fructose corn syrup is for the body.  Wish I could remember what book it was but, man, that got me off that stuff fast!

I would be suspicious of that book.  Chemically, to your body, added fructose is fructose, regardless of the source.  If it's bound up in fiber, as it is in fruit, then it's fine.  It's very hard to consume too much fructose in fruit.

The real argument against HFCS is not in what it is to your body, it's the quantity in which it is used, and the environmental impact of producing it.  The environmental impact of replacing all HFCS with granulated sugar, sucrose, would likely be worse, but it also wouldn't be practical.  The bottom line is that added sugar is the enemy nutritionally, and HFCS is easier to produce than traditional sugar so that ease of production and low cost ends with more added sugar in our diets.

All that being said, you can pry added sugars from my cold dead hands lol
Giving up meat altogether (especially factory meat) and living a happy life is entirely possible, giving up cookies and brownies leaves a bleak existence.

I don’t think it is the problem of added sugars to traditionally sweet foods like cookies and pastries per say.  The problem is more about getting around using actual ingredients and just using HFCS and flavorings in place of actual ingredients like tomatoes when it comes to things like pasta sauces or in large doses of processed cheeses. Additionally hfcs unlike real sugar is not bonded fructose and glucose which takes longer for the body to digest, it is a suspension with the fructose and glucose separated in the syrup, thus allowing the fructose a clearer path to the liver where it is quickly converted to fat causing, fatty liver, obesity, diabetes etc.  Plainly stated HFCS is used in so many products where it has no actual place and that is a major driver of unknowing fructose intake.  It’s one thing to know not to drink a 2 liter of cola and a box of cookies, but another to think you are eating actual food when in fact you are just eating flavored and processed HFCS.