Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Exactly.
Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.
Interest rates were 8% back in 88. Much higher than now. So....I am here to talk to you about whatever it is you wanted to talk about. Like how my tuition was lower but my starting salary was 1/3 of what yours probably is now in the same profession.
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Exactly.
Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.
Interest rates were 8% back in 88. Much higher than now. So....I am here to talk to you about whatever it is you wanted to talk about. Like how my tuition was lower but my starting salary was 1/3 of what yours probably is now in the same profession.
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
And still got a ton of free shit that you take for granted.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Exactly.
Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.
Interest rates were 8% back in 88. Much higher than now. So....I am here to talk to you about whatever it is you wanted to talk about. Like how my tuition was lower but my starting salary was 1/3 of what yours probably is now in the same profession.
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
And still got a ton of free shit that you take for granted.
I would like to know what ‘free shit’ I got when I was working at the grocery store, construction, detasseling, and convenience store in summers and when in school with a minimum wage of around $3. You must be thick in the fucking head.
Part of the problem is the fantasy world of yarns spun by professors that things were so great and the lie there was anything free. Unless you got a scholarship which is no different than now.
The main difference in your life and mine is I busted ass and you want shit handed to you. And the lifestyle your parents built over decades but right out of college. The first step is looking in the mirror and realizing YOU are the problem. So many of you have been coddled and treated like you cured cancer when all you have done is fill a fucking diaper.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Exactly.
Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.
Interest rates were 8% back in 88. Much higher than now. So....I am here to talk to you about whatever it is you wanted to talk about. Like how my tuition was lower but my starting salary was 1/3 of what yours probably is now in the same profession.
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
Hmmmm, is this directed at me? Not sure what to make of it. I'm not one of the advocates for free tuition.
I think my interest rate in 88 was 3.99 and then my grad school loans were higher. But my undergrad loans were govt. subsidized because I was truly on my own. I had no parent co-signing for me with a mortgage to put up for collateral. In fact, my mom was a bit annoyed that she had to stop claiming me as a dependent on her taxes so I could get the subsidized loan. I also didn't live on campus and saved a ton of money by living at home. I had a job on campus making $8.00 an hour, which was a lot of money back then for a part time job. And there was a small recession when I got out, and I didn't get a full time professional-salaried job for a solid three years. I waited tables at night and substitute-taught during the day. Finally in 1995 I got a full time job at a whopping $23,000. It was rough then, and I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. But I'm comfortable with what I have. I've got my health, my family and friends, a few diversions. I don't need a lot. And my loans are finally paid off, which I'm damned proud of, but some self-righteous know-it-alls on here want to shit on all the hard work it took for me to get there instead of congratulating me for being a self-sufficient survivor. They would rather I had lived my life a suffering victim.
I just really can't stand some of the posters on this site. Really. For someone to tell me -- who knows not a thing about how I spend my days working with people in poverty all day every day, because it's my career! -- that I don't know how social systems work is just ridiculous. I watch [edit: HELP] people in poverty get free shit all the time and they do absolutely nothing in turn to lift themselves out of it. They just wreck every opportunity they've been handed. And I understand the trauma, and the ensuing depression, and know how hard it is to work through the chronic stress that comes from living in poverty, and how the community supports are difficult to navigate. It is absolutely possible to know all these things and STILL come to a completely different conclusion, and it doesn't make me an awful person.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Exactly.
Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.
Interest rates were 8% back in 88. Much higher than now. So....I am here to talk to you about whatever it is you wanted to talk about. Like how my tuition was lower but my starting salary was 1/3 of what yours probably is now in the same profession.
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
Hmmmm, is this directed at me? Not sure what to make of it. I'm not one of the advocates for free tuition.
I think my interest rate in 88 was 3.99 and then my grad school loans were higher. But my undergrad loans were govt. subsidized because I was truly on my own. I had no parent co-signing for me with a mortgage to put up for collateral. In fact, my mom was a bit annoyed that she had to stop claiming me as a dependent on her taxes so I could get the subsidized loan. I also didn't live on campus and saved a ton of money by living at home. I had a job on campus making $8.00 an hour, which was a lot of money back then for a part time job. And there was a small recession when I got out, and I didn't get a full time professional-salaried job for a solid three years. I waited tables at night and substitute-taught during the day. Finally in 1995 I got a full time job at a whopping $23,000. It was rough then, and I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. But I'm comfortable with what I have. I've got my health, my family and friends, a few diversions. I don't need a lot. And my loans are finally paid off, which I'm damned proud of, but some self-righteous know-it-alls on here want to shit on all the hard work it took for me to get there instead of congratulating me for being a self-sufficient survivor. They would rather I had lived my life a suffering victim.
I just really can't stand some of the posters on this site. Really. For someone to tell me -- who knows not a thing about how I spend my days working with people in poverty all day every day, because it's my career! -- that I don't know how social systems work is just ridiculous. I watch people in poverty get free shit all the time and they do absolutely nothing in turn to lift themselves out of it. They just wreck every opportunity they've been handed. And I understand the trauma, and the ensuing depression, and know how hard it is to work through the chronic stress that comes from living in poverty, and how the community supports are difficult to navigate. It is absolutely possible to know all these things and STILL come to a completely different conclusion, and it doesn't make me an awful person.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Baby Boomers didn't go to college in 1988.
Exactly.
Point being 'i got mine f everyone else' You sound old
Well you failed reading interpretation as I was replying to ‘88 not being a ‘Boomer’ year in college.
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Baby Boomers didn't go to college in 1988.
Exactly.
Point being 'i got mine f everyone else' You sound old
Well you failed reading interpretation as I was replying to ‘88 not being a ‘Boomer’ year in college.
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Ok Boomer. Better get a refund on that college education.
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Spoken like a true Socialist.....Good luck with that. Reminds me of a scene in CaddyShack when Judge schmails tells Danny Noonan that the world needs ditch diggers too.
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college. And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.
so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?
oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.
yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you.
same old stupid talking points.
i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.
wanna know why?
because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.
people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.
I also don’t want dumbasses. After seeing the ‘demonstrations’ by the kids who were brainwashed in college I think we are past if dumbass stage with these entitled whiny fucks.
You want kids then by all means pay their way. It is not on me in that regard. I paid my own way as all my friends did. Nut up and pay or help your kid out. As stated in another thread, poor kids get loads of assistance now. So it is not because of financial standing.
No, No, No!!! Don’t you know it takes a village to raise a child?
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college. And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.
so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?
oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.
yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you.
same old stupid talking points.
i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.
wanna know why?
because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.
people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.
I also don’t want dumbasses. After seeing the ‘demonstrations’ by the kids who were brainwashed in college I think we are past if dumbass stage with these entitled whiny fucks.
You want kids then by all means pay their way. It is not on me in that regard. I paid my own way as all my friends did. Nut up and pay or help your kid out. As stated in another thread, poor kids get loads of assistance now. So it is not because of financial standing.
No, No, No!!! Don’t you know it takes a village to raise a child?
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Baby Boomers didn't go to college in 1988.
Exactly.
Point being 'i got mine f everyone else' You sound old
Well you failed reading interpretation as I was replying to ‘88 not being a ‘Boomer’ year in college.
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Ok Boomer. Better get a refund on that college education.
You've made your point though. Being a boomer is more about a state of mind:
'i got mine f everyone else'
You sound old
You are in college at 24 if you are going to be a dr. or something. Otherwise you probably don’t belong if you cannot get your 4 year in 6 lol! Keep taking out those loans for another couple years and you might eventually get that elusive 8 year BA in general studies Tommy Boy.
I wasn’t in college then that was another poster. Try harder....especially in college it looks like.
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Spoken like a true Socialist.....Good luck with that. Reminds me of a scene in CaddyShack when Judge schmails tells Danny Noonan that the world needs ditch diggers too.
To my knowledge all nordic countries have tuition free higher education, so *yawn* at the one who's time in school resulted in them claiming Greta Thunberg is ANTIFA with a straight face on message boards.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I guess I can relate to both sides of the argument that has over taken this thread. I grew up on a farm and my dad still worked a job at night to help keep us going because my mom had to stay home and take care of the family. We didn't have elaborate things, vacations were to places we could drive and camp at KOA's or stay with relatives and the TV got 4 channels, maybe 7 or 8 on good weather days, with the help of a 50 foot antenna. Yet, I didn't feel like we didn't have it good.
My sister and I are 1st generation college grads who worked our way through good colleges with the help of loans and scholarships. Yep, I grew up in the 80's and 90's and graduated college in the early 00's. Pay was a lot lower then, but so was cost of living, gas, housing and food. I was ignorant about community colleges and chose a full 4 years at a private school. Sure, it got me great connections and a respected degree, but if I wasn't so misinformed and mostly ignorant, I could have saved a shit ton of money by doing PSEO and community college classes first before transferring to that same college. When I was at college, everyone was 18 - 23 years old because it was a private residential campus. That isn't how a lot of colleges are though.
I work at a community college now and our students range from 16 - 77, with the median somewhere around 27. Sure, I see people who have no intent on making good on using their college loans for classes or getting an education and are just taking the money, but it's not like they don't have repercussions. There are suspensions, defaults and then on to debt collectors. Maybe it will get written off somewhere down the road, but maybe not. It's asinine to group everyone together though. People saying, I paid for it on my own and worked hard, great, glad that was an option for you. You definitely should be proud of that accomplishment, but quit trying to apply that standard to other people who aren't you. That method maybe works for every 1 out of 100 people. I really don't know, but does it matter? You just sound out of touch when you tell other people what they should do and what should work for them because it worked for you even though you don't understand their circumstances or situation.
Yes, ultimately there will be people who take advantage of the system and do nothing with it, but there are also a lot of people who were dealt a shitty fucking life with little support who will use it to make something of themselves. I'm obviously a white male, and for me to ignore the privilege that provided me, and still does, is ridiculous. Race, gender, cultural background, etc., don't always inhibit people, but they sure as hell are a factor of how circumstances can play out at many levels. I think the ground is shifting and it is becoming more of the conversation when it comes to how individuals are treated and identifying how we can knock those barriers down for good. But yeah, there is always going to be someone looking to game the system. Doesn't mean we completely remove those social and financial benefits being provided to help level the playing field. They aren't perfect, but as long as we are open to continually looking at ways to improve how they are delivered and that there are incentives to correctly utilizing them, they will get better over time and so will the people we make them available to.
To bring this back to the initial post about the lack of open views on campuses now, I say, bullshit. No one is orchestrating these people in to protesting more than what was happening 20 years. Those referencing the 90's maybe forget that social media and instant information have changed the ability for people to mobilize and respond to things they either agree with and like or disagree with and dislike. Gone are the days of fliers, phone calls and door-to-door communication. If I want to get information out to college students, I send a text or post it on social media. Fuck, I'd say 90% of our students don't even read emails because email is the modern day snail mail. It's meant for bill notices and official communication from someone trying to tell you what to do or what you are supposed to do. That, and advertisement spam mail. While a lot of the people I work with are liberal, none of them are touting their liberalism (or leftist agendas as mentioned by others).
If a speaker is going to be coming to campus, there is definitely a discussion about anyone who is more controversial or might bring about a more hostile response with their topic. Never have I heard anyone say a speaker won't be allowed because they don't agree with their message. It usually comes down to, can we safely provide space to this person or find a way to manage possible negative reactions. We have designated spaces for people who want to protest and thankfully have never had an issue with protestors, but having those spaces doesn't mean that students can't decide just to mobilize and over run the speaker, thus ending the event; however, there would be consequences for creating a disturbance.
As for the video, I watched it. I guess I didn't realize Stossel had gone crazy, at least according to some on here. I only remember him from his 20/20 segments growing up. Seemed the same to me. I think some of the things MacDonald is arguing against are just plain stupid. Others on here also seemed to have problems with institutions investing millions in racial equity and inclusion or paying someone $450,000 to be a vice chancellor at a major university. Racial equity and inclusion, is a huge part of any campus that currently has a pulse, or a diverse population of students. Maybe all of you that mentioned your experience in college didn't take in the fact that you still were in the majority demographic of your campus and inclusion and equity weren't things you ever considered a privilege.
Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. I guess the short of it is, if you haven't been in college or on a college campus in the last 10 - 20 years, you may no longer have the information needed to assess current issues
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Baby Boomers didn't go to college in 1988.
Exactly.
Point being 'i got mine f everyone else' You sound old
Well you failed reading interpretation as I was replying to ‘88 not being a ‘Boomer’ year in college.
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Ok Boomer. Better get a refund on that college education.
You've made your point though. Being a boomer is more about a state of mind:
'i got mine f everyone else'
You sound old
You are in college at 24 if you are going to be a dr. or something. Otherwise you probably don’t belong if you cannot get your 4 year in 6 lol! Keep taking out those loans for another couple years and you might eventually get that elusive 8 year BA in general studies Tommy Boy.
I wasn’t in college then that was another poster. Try harder....especially in college it looks like.
It seems you are forgetting that not everyone goes to college at 18 or that they may need to take a few years off and return later due to shit in their life. I try not to be an ass, but your response makes your bias and the privilege you don't realize you had pretty clear.
I find it odd that in 2020 there are people who still get wound up about "socialists" and "leftists" but could care less that the currently elected president bends over for the Russian dictator.
Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s.
Baby Boomers didn't go to college in 1988.
Exactly.
Point being 'i got mine f everyone else' You sound old
Well you failed reading interpretation as I was replying to ‘88 not being a ‘Boomer’ year in college.
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Ok Boomer. Better get a refund on that college education.
You've made your point though. Being a boomer is more about a state of mind:
'i got mine f everyone else'
You sound old
You are in college at 24 if you are going to be a dr. or something. Otherwise you probably don’t belong if you cannot get your 4 year in 6 lol! Keep taking out those loans for another couple years and you might eventually get that elusive 8 year BA in general studies Tommy Boy.
I wasn’t in college then that was another poster. Try harder....especially in college it looks like.
You've made your point though. Being a boomer is more about a state of mind:
I find it odd that in 2020 there are people who still get wound up about "socialists" and "leftists" but could care less that the currently elected president bends over for the Russian dictator.
not to mention getting taken to task by an actual socialist country over trade, and giving millions in 'free money' to US farms
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college. And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.
so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?
oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.
yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you.
same old stupid talking points.
i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.
wanna know why?
because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.
people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.
I also don’t want dumbasses. After seeing the ‘demonstrations’ by the kids who were brainwashed in college I think we are past if dumbass stage with these entitled whiny fucks.
You want kids then by all means pay their way. It is not on me in that regard. I paid my own way as all my friends did. Nut up and pay or help your kid out. As stated in another thread, poor kids get loads of assistance now. So it is not because of financial standing.
haha, yeah, cause we all started out with the same opportunities.
if that's the way you think, then nut up and pay for your own fucking roads. i don't need them, why should i pay for your driving habits?
Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well.
You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it. I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something. They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.
the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of.
why should higher education be a social class issue?
Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college. And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.
so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?
oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.
yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you.
same old stupid talking points.
i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.
wanna know why?
because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.
people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.
I also don’t want dumbasses. After seeing the ‘demonstrations’ by the kids who were brainwashed in college I think we are past if dumbass stage with these entitled whiny fucks.
You want kids then by all means pay their way. It is not on me in that regard. I paid my own way as all my friends did. Nut up and pay or help your kid out. As stated in another thread, poor kids get loads of assistance now. So it is not because of financial standing.
haha, yeah, cause we all started out with the same opportunities.
if that's the way you think, then nut up and pay for your own fucking roads. i don't need them, why should i pay for your driving habits?
my god. the ignorance.
this
any econ professor will tell you success in life is a lottery. the family, money and means you are born into socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse but you know....bootstraps and whatnot
As someone that worked 2-3 full time jobs and still had to take out loans to pay for trade school and is paying off my loans like a real hard working member of society I would just like to add...Why the fuck is it so hard to get a goddamn education in this country. Since this thread got derailed into a debate about higher ed I would also like to add my theory on the cry babies that don’t want others to have free or low cost education. It is because they are butt hurt they had to pay for theirs and think it would be unfair for others to have the benefit of a free education that they didn’t.
I had to work hard and I’m paying my loans, if all loans were forgiven and all continuing education was made free the day after I paid mine off, I would still celebrate for the people that won’t have to go through what I did. Imagine how great it would be to have a generation that doesn’t start their professional life burdened by debt. In what way is that a loss or a bad thing?
As someone that worked 2-3 full time jobs and still had to take out loans to pay for trade school and is paying off my loans like a real hard working member of society I would just like to add...Why the fuck is it so hard to get a goddamn education in this country. Since this thread got derailed into a debate about higher ed I would also like to add my theory on the cry babies that don’t want others to have free or low cost education. It is because they are butt hurt they had to pay for theirs and think it would be unfair for others to have the benefit of a free education that they didn’t.
I had to work hard and I’m paying my loans, if all loans were forgiven and all continuing education was made free the day after I paid mine off, I would still celebrate for the people that won’t have to go through what I did. Imagine how great it would be to have a generation that doesn’t start their professional life burdened by debt. In what way is that a loss or a bad thing?
i completely agree with you. it took me 10 years to pay mine off, and it would be great if other people, younger people, did not have the same burden as I did.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Several points in response to various individuals quoted below. TOO LONG/but better than five posts in succession? Happy Friday!
tbergs:"You just sound out of touch when you tell other people what they should do and what should work for them because it worked for you even though you don't understand their circumstances or situation." Isn't that what you are doing as well? Telling other people they should pay more taxes for someone else's college education just because that works for you? You have no idea what my circumstances or situation is, and yet I'm supposed to believe and think the way you want me to? I agree 100% that tuition is out of control. I agree 100% that college should be affordable for people who are qualified and want to go. I disagree with how we get there.
static:"I would also like to add my theory on the cry babies that don’t want others to have free or low cost education. It is because they are butt hurt they had to pay for theirs and think it would be unfair for others to have the benefit of a free education that they didn’t." No, not true at all in my case. Over the almost 30 years it took me to pay off my loans, my student loan was the only bill I ever paid that I didn't mind paying. I've hated rent payments, car payment, you name the payment -- I hated it. But I have never once regretted a single dime I spent on my education. I believe I said that clearly in telling my story above. My objection to free college tuition has nothing to do with me personally. It's because it singles out a group of people who will experience a tremendous economic advantage/benefit when they are done. Instead of making college free for an elite group, we would do better to make living in general more affordable. Affordable housing. Public transportation networks that people can actually use. A sustainable and affordable food supply. I'm not even against a wealth tax, or a billionaire tax, estate tax, capital gain tax, or any other kind of tax that brings in revenue for the public welfare -- like the roads that Hugh wants me to pay for myself. I'm so sick of that argument, by the way. It's just dumb to compare roads that every single person drives on to a college education that only 30% enjoy. Just dumb. With Hugh's logic, one could argue that having a car to drive on the road is essential to a person's general welfare. What good is a road if there is no car? Are we going to buy a car for everyone in America as well? Housing -- that's an essential need for human survival. Are we going to grab everyone's paycheck and then redistribute free housing to all? Free food, everyone? One could argue that food is more of a priority than a four year college degree for someone's basic welfare, so why are prioritizing college over food? College -- For whom? The elite 30% who actually go, whose lifetime earnings will far exceed the 70% who don't go? Who as a voting block have political power simply as a result of the very privileged education they pay for? What about that other 70%? What free stuff do they get to lift them up, and who is their advocate? Making college free isn't going to increase the number of people who go to college if poor people don't learn to read by the time they're 18. We have free K-12 education in America, let's not forget. Instead of fighting about free college for the literate, how about we fix the very real and very disgusting fact that in America poor people can't go to or can't finish college because they can't read. It's not because college costs too much. So, no, I do not agree with you, Hugh. It's not so "hard" to be an educated person in America. It's just not. It's way, way, way harder to be an uneducated person in America. For some reason, nobody is campaigning on throwing trillions at K-12 literacy programs that would lift way more people out of poverty than a free college major in Queer Film Studies at Yale.
CM: "success in life is a lottery. the family, money and means you are born into socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse." From an economic standpoint, sure, we agree 100%. I have this same conversation with people all the time. But I just don't happen to believe that my success and my happiness is measured by how much money or things I have. I don't begrudge anybody else who was born into privilege, any more than I'm angry or bitter that I'm cash-strapped month to month. For some reason, you have cast me as a bitter person, and yet based on your outbursts in this thread, I actually think I may be way happier than you are with what little I have in life.
Finally, Bentley, back to the original thread -- you are sadly mistaken if you think I am a Trump supporter just because I've used the word leftists to describe the political leanings of campus protesters. It's just a fact that they are leftists. The word fits. It's not an insult or any indication of my own political leanings. Not only have I been a voting Democrat my entire life, I am active local party member who volunteers on the ground to get Democrats/liberals/leftists/anyone but Rs elected. I live/volunteer in the VA district where the first transgendered person was ever elected to state office in America, and I helped her unseat an R, and I voted for her twice. But I can be a believe in liberalism and believe in civility at the same time. Those two things are not exclusive of each other. That was my point from the very beginning. Our President is not civil. He is a horrible human being. I don't think it's a good idea for colleges to support, encourage, or ignore its left-leaning students when they act like uncivilized Trumpists on campus. That is all.
CM: "success in life is a lottery. the family, money and means you are born into socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse." From an economic standpoint, sure, we agree 100%. I have this same conversation with people all the time. But I just don't happen to believe that my success and my happiness is measured by how much money or things I have. I don't begrudge anybody else who was born into privilege, any more than I'm angry or bitter that I'm cash-strapped month to month. For some reason, you have cast me as a bitter person, and yet based on your outbursts in this thread, I actually think I may be way happier than you are with what little I have in life.
"I'm a happy tree! Why should I care about the rest of the forest?"
CM: "success in life is a lottery. the family, money and means you are born into socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse." From an economic standpoint, sure, we agree 100%. I have this same conversation with people all the time. But I just don't happen to believe that my success and my happiness is measured by how much money or things I have. I don't begrudge anybody else who was born into privilege, any more than I'm angry or bitter that I'm cash-strapped month to month. For some reason, you have cast me as a bitter person, and yet based on your outbursts in this thread, I actually think I may be way happier than you are with what little I have in life.
"I'm a happy tree! Why should I care about the rest of the forest?"
Seriously though, income disparity creates a lot of problems in our society. Maybe look past the nose on your face.
Comments
Ding!
Tired of hearing how ‘hard’ you have it quite honestly. I was poor with nothing and made a bit of a life. But then I didn’t ask for free shit, I worked hard, did my job well, and made connections.
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
I think my interest rate in 88 was 3.99 and then my grad school loans were higher. But my undergrad loans were govt. subsidized because I was truly on my own. I had no parent co-signing for me with a mortgage to put up for collateral. In fact, my mom was a bit annoyed that she had to stop claiming me as a dependent on her taxes so I could get the subsidized loan. I also didn't live on campus and saved a ton of money by living at home. I had a job on campus making $8.00 an hour, which was a lot of money back then for a part time job. And there was a small recession when I got out, and I didn't get a full time professional-salaried job for a solid three years. I waited tables at night and substitute-taught during the day. Finally in 1995 I got a full time job at a whopping $23,000. It was rough then, and I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. But I'm comfortable with what I have. I've got my health, my family and friends, a few diversions. I don't need a lot. And my loans are finally paid off, which I'm damned proud of, but some self-righteous know-it-alls on here want to shit on all the hard work it took for me to get there instead of congratulating me for being a self-sufficient survivor. They would rather I had lived my life a suffering victim.
I just really can't stand some of the posters on this site. Really. For someone to tell me -- who knows not a thing about how I spend my days working with people in poverty all day every day, because it's my career! -- that I don't know how social systems work is just ridiculous. I watch [edit: HELP] people in poverty get free shit all the time and they do absolutely nothing in turn to lift themselves out of it. They just wreck every opportunity they've been handed. And I understand the trauma, and the ensuing depression, and know how hard it is to work through the chronic stress that comes from living in poverty, and how the community supports are difficult to navigate. It is absolutely possible to know all these things and STILL come to a completely different conclusion, and it doesn't make me an awful person.
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
'i got mine f everyone else'
You sound old
You sound like ‘give me shit without working or paying for it.’ You sound like an entitled, lazy millennial. It gets old hearing the whiny, spoiled child crying all the time. They are eventually ignored.
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
Baby boomers were born between '46-64.
88-64=24 years old
Which would be college age
You've made your point though. Being a boomer is more about a state of mind:
'i got mine f everyone else'
You sound old
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
My sister and I are 1st generation college grads who worked our way through good colleges with the help of loans and scholarships. Yep, I grew up in the 80's and 90's and graduated college in the early 00's. Pay was a lot lower then, but so was cost of living, gas, housing and food. I was ignorant about community colleges and chose a full 4 years at a private school. Sure, it got me great connections and a respected degree, but if I wasn't so misinformed and mostly ignorant, I could have saved a shit ton of money by doing PSEO and community college classes first before transferring to that same college. When I was at college, everyone was 18 - 23 years old because it was a private residential campus. That isn't how a lot of colleges are though.
I work at a community college now and our students range from 16 - 77, with the median somewhere around 27. Sure, I see people who have no intent on making good on using their college loans for classes or getting an education and are just taking the money, but it's not like they don't have repercussions. There are suspensions, defaults and then on to debt collectors. Maybe it will get written off somewhere down the road, but maybe not. It's asinine to group everyone together though. People saying, I paid for it on my own and worked hard, great, glad that was an option for you. You definitely should be proud of that accomplishment, but quit trying to apply that standard to other people who aren't you. That method maybe works for every 1 out of 100 people. I really don't know, but does it matter? You just sound out of touch when you tell other people what they should do and what should work for them because it worked for you even though you don't understand their circumstances or situation.
Yes, ultimately there will be people who take advantage of the system and do nothing with it, but there are also a lot of people who were dealt a shitty fucking life with little support who will use it to make something of themselves. I'm obviously a white male, and for me to ignore the privilege that provided me, and still does, is ridiculous. Race, gender, cultural background, etc., don't always inhibit people, but they sure as hell are a factor of how circumstances can play out at many levels. I think the ground is shifting and it is becoming more of the conversation when it comes to how individuals are treated and identifying how we can knock those barriers down for good. But yeah, there is always going to be someone looking to game the system. Doesn't mean we completely remove those social and financial benefits being provided to help level the playing field. They aren't perfect, but as long as we are open to continually looking at ways to improve how they are delivered and that there are incentives to correctly utilizing them, they will get better over time and so will the people we make them available to.
To bring this back to the initial post about the lack of open views on campuses now, I say, bullshit. No one is orchestrating these people in to protesting more than what was happening 20 years. Those referencing the 90's maybe forget that social media and instant information have changed the ability for people to mobilize and respond to things they either agree with and like or disagree with and dislike. Gone are the days of fliers, phone calls and door-to-door communication. If I want to get information out to college students, I send a text or post it on social media. Fuck, I'd say 90% of our students don't even read emails because email is the modern day snail mail. It's meant for bill notices and official communication from someone trying to tell you what to do or what you are supposed to do. That, and advertisement spam mail. While a lot of the people I work with are liberal, none of them are touting their liberalism (or leftist agendas as mentioned by others).
If a speaker is going to be coming to campus, there is definitely a discussion about anyone who is more controversial or might bring about a more hostile response with their topic. Never have I heard anyone say a speaker won't be allowed because they don't agree with their message. It usually comes down to, can we safely provide space to this person or find a way to manage possible negative reactions. We have designated spaces for people who want to protest and thankfully have never had an issue with protestors, but having those spaces doesn't mean that students can't decide just to mobilize and over run the speaker, thus ending the event; however, there would be consequences for creating a disturbance.
As for the video, I watched it. I guess I didn't realize Stossel had gone crazy, at least according to some on here. I only remember him from his 20/20 segments growing up. Seemed the same to me. I think some of the things MacDonald is arguing against are just plain stupid. Others on here also seemed to have problems with institutions investing millions in racial equity and inclusion or paying someone $450,000 to be a vice chancellor at a major university. Racial equity and inclusion, is a huge part of any campus that currently has a pulse, or a diverse population of students. Maybe all of you that mentioned your experience in college didn't take in the fact that you still were in the majority demographic of your campus and inclusion and equity weren't things you ever considered a privilege.
Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. I guess the short of it is, if you haven't been in college or on a college campus in the last 10 - 20 years, you may no longer have the information needed to assess current issues
not to mention getting taken to task by an actual socialist country over trade, and giving millions in 'free money' to US farms
if that's the way you think, then nut up and pay for your own fucking roads. i don't need them, why should i pay for your driving habits?
my god. the ignorance.
www.headstonesband.com
any econ professor will tell you success in life is a lottery.
the family, money and means you are born into
socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe
it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse
but you know....bootstraps and whatnot
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
tbergs: "You just sound out of touch when you tell other people what they should do and what should work for them because it worked for you even though you don't understand their circumstances or situation." Isn't that what you are doing as well? Telling other people they should pay more taxes for someone else's college education just because that works for you? You have no idea what my circumstances or situation is, and yet I'm supposed to believe and think the way you want me to? I agree 100% that tuition is out of control. I agree 100% that college should be affordable for people who are qualified and want to go. I disagree with how we get there.
static: "I would also like to add my theory on the cry babies that don’t want others to have free or low cost education. It is because they are butt hurt they had to pay for theirs and think it would be unfair for others to have the benefit of a free education that they didn’t." No, not true at all in my case. Over the almost 30 years it took me to pay off my loans, my student loan was the only bill I ever paid that I didn't mind paying. I've hated rent payments, car payment, you name the payment -- I hated it. But I have never once regretted a single dime I spent on my education. I believe I said that clearly in telling my story above. My objection to free college tuition has nothing to do with me personally. It's because it singles out a group of people who will experience a tremendous economic advantage/benefit when they are done. Instead of making college free for an elite group, we would do better to make living in general more affordable. Affordable housing. Public transportation networks that people can actually use. A sustainable and affordable food supply. I'm not even against a wealth tax, or a billionaire tax, estate tax, capital gain tax, or any other kind of tax that brings in revenue for the public welfare -- like the roads that Hugh wants me to pay for myself. I'm so sick of that argument, by the way. It's just dumb to compare roads that every single person drives on to a college education that only 30% enjoy. Just dumb.
With Hugh's logic, one could argue that having a car to drive on the road is essential to a person's general welfare. What good is a road if there is no car? Are we going to buy a car for everyone in America as well? Housing -- that's an essential need for human survival. Are we going to grab everyone's paycheck and then redistribute free housing to all? Free food, everyone? One could argue that food is more of a priority than a four year college degree for someone's basic welfare, so why are prioritizing college over food? College -- For whom? The elite 30% who actually go, whose lifetime earnings will far exceed the 70% who don't go? Who as a voting block have political power simply as a result of the very privileged education they pay for? What about that other 70%? What free stuff do they get to lift them up, and who is their advocate? Making college free isn't going to increase the number of people who go to college if poor people don't learn to read by the time they're 18. We have free K-12 education in America, let's not forget. Instead of fighting about free college for the literate, how about we fix the very real and very disgusting fact that in America poor people can't go to or can't finish college because they can't read. It's not because college costs too much. So, no, I do not agree with you, Hugh. It's not so "hard" to be an educated person in America. It's just not. It's way, way, way harder to be an uneducated person in America. For some reason, nobody is campaigning on throwing trillions at K-12 literacy programs that would lift way more people out of poverty than a free college major in Queer Film Studies at Yale.
CM: "success in life is a lottery. the family, money and means you are born into socioeconomic mobility in the United States is not as great as we are told to believe it's actually pretty terrible and getting worse." From an economic standpoint, sure, we agree 100%. I have this same conversation with people all the time. But I just don't happen to believe that my success and my happiness is measured by how much money or things I have. I don't begrudge anybody else who was born into privilege, any more than I'm angry or bitter that I'm cash-strapped month to month. For some reason, you have cast me as a bitter person, and yet based on your outbursts in this thread, I actually think I may be way happier than you are with what little I have in life.
Finally, Bentley, back to the original thread -- you are sadly mistaken if you think I am a Trump supporter just because I've used the word leftists to describe the political leanings of campus protesters. It's just a fact that they are leftists. The word fits. It's not an insult or any indication of my own political leanings. Not only have I been a voting Democrat my entire life, I am active local party member who volunteers on the ground to get Democrats/liberals/leftists/anyone but Rs elected. I live/volunteer in the VA district where the first transgendered person was ever elected to state office in America, and I helped her unseat an R, and I voted for her twice. But I can be a believe in liberalism and believe in civility at the same time. Those two things are not exclusive of each other. That was my point from the very beginning. Our President is not civil. He is a horrible human being. I don't think it's a good idea for colleges to support, encourage, or ignore its left-leaning students when they act like uncivilized Trumpists on campus. That is all.
"I'm a happy tree! Why should I care about the rest of the forest?"