No Free Speech on American College Campuses

CM189191

what dreams said:

CM189191 said:

what dreams said:

CM189191 said:

rgambs said:

what dreams said:

And this ^^^^ is why I wonder how people expect this democracy to survive. You're basically making the argument easy for "the nutters" to win. When you dismiss people instead of attacking the argument, you lose.  When you refuse to show up with the power of your ideas, you lose. Don't turn Stossel, et. al., off. Confront them face on and actually win an argument. 

It's not worth the effort.  You don't argue with crazy/stupid, crazy/stupid doesn't lose.
Does the force of argument matter to flat earthers, birthers, or orange girthers?
Nope.

^this

Except this particular speaker has published well-documented research about inner city crime, urban citizens' attitudes toward it, and police training and response to it. Wish I could remember the title of the book I read. It opened up a lot of thinking for me. Reading it didn't turn me into a hater of black people or less sympathetic to BLM or sway me to believe police are perfect enforcers of the law. It did help me understand the issues African Americans face in their neighborhoods, though, and how a large number of cities in America have successful programs in place to bring citizens and police together, which never makes the news.

It's so bizarre to me that supposedly well educated people would be so opposed to reading or having discussions with people with opposing viewpoints. 

'Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts'
'And here, right matters'
'Right matters and the truth matters'

it's the difference between opposing viewpoints and opposing reality
how do you argue with a population that exists on an entirely different plane?

You don't argue with crazy/stupid, crazy/stupid doesn't lose

Since retirement, my father has been slowly brain washed by Fox News.  I don't even try to argue with my father anymore.  I just roll up a newspaper and swat him over the head.  It's been the most effective method and he's starting to come back around.  

You all are talking about the average doofus. We all have them in our family. I get that. Family dinners suck when Uncle Doofus starts talking about the pizza parlor again. 

I'm talking about the scholar who was invited to a college campus by a group of students who wanted to hear her to share what she learned in her research that she documented in a book that I read and found pretty interesting and could reasonably share on the gun/cop killer thread here on the AMT.

She is absolutely correct in this video that there is something wrong when a "liberal arts education" on a college campus involves not just ignoring an entire set of facts because you don't like the conclusions they lead to, but also causing public disturbances and committing violence to stop the presentation of facts. On a college campus, you are not required to take courses you don't want to take. You are not required to attend free lectures that you don't want to listen to. You can argue all day long about what free speech means at the Constitutional level, but it is completely anti-intellectual and anti-academic freedom to shut down the presentation of ideas on a college campus just because you don't like them. 

Give me a break. That's not what happened here. Is it? Just another conservative with s***** ideas playing victim.

They weren't ignoring her or her ideas. They shut her down because they are intellectuals and they are academics. They engaged with her thoughts and decided that she was a f****** moron and then they showed her the goddamn door.  

It must be really easy to write someone off as anti-intellectual or anti-academic, just because they disagree with some s***** author.

gimmesometruth27

this is like when glen beck would say the worst things on his show and then get banned from campuses and then backpedal and say he was "just asking questions" so he could play the victim. same with that idiot Milo. you can't troll people online and on tv and then come to where they live and expect them to greet you with open arms and civility. there is a credibility issue. you can't act like an asshole on tv and offend people and incite them to the point of anger and be surprised when they kick you the fuck out of their city of campus. 

if kent state gun girl came out as a rational person, people would listen to her. if john stossell came out as a rational, fair reporter, i would have watched the video. i know his history on fox. i have seen what he has done and heard what he has said. in no way will i waste my time watching his bullshit electively.

HughFreakingDillon

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

I think Bernie should have been more realistic and talked about decreasing college prices (which like you say, are insane) and finding ways to lower interest rates on loans, rather than just suggesting it'll all be free. That's kind of in the realm of Trump's border wall. Not a horrible concept if you're against illegal immigration, but really, Mexico's going to pay for it? Same thing here. Free college sounds like a great concept, but Sanders couldn't really come up with a feasible way to pay for it.  

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

I think Bernie should have been more realistic and talked about decreasing college prices (which like you say, are insane) and finding ways to lower interest rates on loans, rather than just suggesting it'll all be free. That's kind of in the realm of Trump's border wall. Not a horrible concept if you're against illegal immigration, but really, Mexico's going to pay for it? Same thing here. Free college sounds like a great concept, but Sanders couldn't really come up with a feasible way to pay for it.  

agreed. it was staggering that interview where he basically admitted he has no plan how to pay for the stuff he's proposing. 

OnWis97

Yeah...I'm all for finding ways to reduce the cost of higher education.  But "free" really rubs people the wrong way and I'm not convinced it should be free.*  Also, anyone talking about free/affordable college needs to give a nod to other kinds of post-high school options, trade schools, tech schools, etc.  First, it makes them appear more in touch and less "college is smart; trade school is dumb" (particularly given trade school graduates make more money than four-year-only degree holders).  Second, the college option has been over-emphasized for decades now.  Get in touch with the people and say "we want to make preparing for your future, whatever that may be, affordable."

*Easy for me to say...I'm an only child of upper-middle-class parents and actually had the college fund that most kids think they have...

blackhawks

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

CM189191

blackhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

Paying for college now > paying for SNAP & TANF later

HughFreakingDillon

blackhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?

oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.

yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you. 

same old stupid talking points. 

gimmesometruth27

HughFreakingDillon said:

blackhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?

oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.

yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you. 

same old stupid talking points. 

i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.

wanna know why?

because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.

people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.

CM189191

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

blackhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?

oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.

yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you. 

same old stupid talking points. 

i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.

wanna know why?

because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.

people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.

but but but socializms!!!

what dreams

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Higher education was a social class issue for me because I knew it was the only way out of the poverty it I grew up with. I had a deadbeat dad who contributed nothing and a single mother who worked retail and also had nothing to give. My poverty was not a barrier to my getting an education. My student loans were not a barrier to my getting an education. My student loans were not a barrier to me living the life I've wanted to live. I took out my first student loan in 1988. I consolidated my undergrad loans into my grad school loans in 2004. I finally finished paying them all off in 2019. It didn't kill me. I figured it out. I have lived a comfortable life in spite of a monthly loan payment.

On the other hand, Crazy Kent State Gun Girl points out that UCLA has an Office of Equity and Inclusion budget to the tune of 20 million dollars a year. Think about that. It costs 20 million dollars a year for UCLA to promote diversity on its campus. Really? How is that holding down the cost of tuition for the oppressed young people of UCLA? 

what dreams

gimmesometruth27 said:

this is like when glen beck would say the worst things on his show and then get banned from campuses and then backpedal and say he was "just asking questions" so he could play the victim. same with that idiot Milo. you can't troll people online and on tv and then come to where they live and expect them to greet you with open arms and civility. there is a credibility issue. you can't act like an asshole on tv and offend people and incite them to the point of anger and be surprised when they kick you the fuck out of their city of campus. 

if kent state gun girl came out as a rational person, people would listen to her. if john stossell came out as a rational, fair reporter, i would have watched the video. i know his history on fox. i have seen what he has done and heard what he has said. in no way will i waste my time watching his bullshit electively.

Well, the only reason this is able to happen is because leftists have completely taken over the campuses, so there's that. People like to argue in this thread that it's a made up story that leftists control the campuses. Then how are they able to incite such crowds and run people out if they are not in control of the agenda? Can't have it both ways.

That's all fine and good if you want our universities to be centers of Orwellian GroupThink. But don't be all butt hurt that our Supreme Court is doing the exact same kind of thing, except in the reverse. Our lovely right wing justices control that particular space and agenda and will be showing people their door for the next generation.  They won't even take certain cases through the door at all.

That's just the way it goes, right? People with a particular point of view don't have to listen to another group of people with a different point of view and we're all supposed to live on this planet together and make it work? I don't even like John Stossel's agenda. But we have spent an entire generation ignoring these dumb fucks while they took over our country right under our noses because we refused to engage. And your solution is to continue to refuse to engage?  Ha!  Good fucking luck with that. 

CM189191

what dreams said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this is like when glen beck would say the worst things on his show and then get banned from campuses and then backpedal and say he was "just asking questions" so he could play the victim. same with that idiot Milo. you can't troll people online and on tv and then come to where they live and expect them to greet you with open arms and civility. there is a credibility issue. you can't act like an asshole on tv and offend people and incite them to the point of anger and be surprised when they kick you the fuck out of their city of campus. 

if kent state gun girl came out as a rational person, people would listen to her. if john stossell came out as a rational, fair reporter, i would have watched the video. i know his history on fox. i have seen what he has done and heard what he has said. in no way will i waste my time watching his bullshit electively.

Well, the only reason this is able to happen is because leftists have completely taken over the campuses, so there's that. People like to argue in this thread that it's a made up story that leftists control the campuses. Then how are they able to incite such crowds and run people out if they are not in control of the agenda? Can't have it both ways.

That's all fine and good if you want our universities to be centers of Orwellian GroupThink. But don't be all butt hurt that our Supreme Court is doing the exact same kind of thing, except in the reverse. Our lovely right wing justices control that particular space and agenda and will be showing people their door for the next generation.  They won't even take certain cases through the door at all.

That's just the way it goes, right? People with a particular point of view don't have to listen to another group of people with a different point of view and we're all supposed to live on this planet together and make it work? I don't even like John Stossel's agenda. But we have spent an entire generation ignoring these dumb fucks while they took over our country right under our noses because we refused to engage. And your solution is to continue to refuse to engage?  Ha!  Good fucking luck with that. 

stopped reading at 'leftists'

blackhawks

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

blackhawks said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

the only people that are opposed to bernie's "free shit" are the ones who can afford it. and it's not free shit. it's a fair shot. college prices are INSANE. loan debt is nearly impossible to get out of. 

why should higher education be a social class issue?

Or who don’t have kids and don’t want to be taxed to pay for your kid’s college.  And see through the obvious pandering for votes more than the sheep that actually think free shit is coming their way.

so you only want to be taxed on things you personally use? what about the shit that I'm taxed for that don't benefit me?

oh right, I'm not a selfish ass.

yes, everyone else is stupid, everyone is a sheep because they don't agree with you. 

same old stupid talking points. 

i don't have kids and i have no problem paying taxes for public education.

wanna know why?

because i don't want to future generations to be a bunch of fucking dumbasses.

people who say they refuse to pay taxes for certain things that do not necessarily apply to them right at this very moment make me laugh.

I also don’t want dumbasses.  After seeing the ‘demonstrations’ by the kids who were brainwashed in college I think we are past if dumbass stage with these entitled whiny fucks.    

You want kids then by all means pay their way. It is not on me in that regard.  I paid my own way as all my friends did.  Nut up and pay or help your kid out.  As stated in another thread, poor kids get loads of assistance now.  So it is not because of financial standing.  

oftenreading

People who say they “paid my own way” have no conceptualization of what society, genetics and luck provides that they already take for granted. No one pays their own way. 

oftenreading

“First student loan in 1988” says it all. 

Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s. 

gimmesometruth27

what dreams said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this is like when glen beck would say the worst things on his show and then get banned from campuses and then backpedal and say he was "just asking questions" so he could play the victim. same with that idiot Milo. you can't troll people online and on tv and then come to where they live and expect them to greet you with open arms and civility. there is a credibility issue. you can't act like an asshole on tv and offend people and incite them to the point of anger and be surprised when they kick you the fuck out of their city of campus. 

if kent state gun girl came out as a rational person, people would listen to her. if john stossell came out as a rational, fair reporter, i would have watched the video. i know his history on fox. i have seen what he has done and heard what he has said. in no way will i waste my time watching his bullshit electively.

Well, the only reason this is able to happen is because leftists have completely taken over the campuses, so there's that. People like to argue in this thread that it's a made up story that leftists control the campuses. Then how are they able to incite such crowds and run people out if they are not in control of the agenda? Can't have it both ways.

That's all fine and good if you want our universities to be centers of Orwellian GroupThink. But don't be all butt hurt that our Supreme Court is doing the exact same kind of thing, except in the reverse. Our lovely right wing justices control that particular space and agenda and will be showing people their door for the next generation.  They won't even take certain cases through the door at all.

That's just the way it goes, right? People with a particular point of view don't have to listen to another group of people with a different point of view and we're all supposed to live on this planet together and make it work? I don't even like John Stossel's agenda. But we have spent an entire generation ignoring these dumb fucks while they took over our country right under our noses because we refused to engage. And your solution is to continue to refuse to engage?  Ha!  Good fucking luck with that. 

dignin

oftenreading said:

“First student loan in 1988” says it all. 

Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s. 

Exactly.

what dreams

dignin said:

oftenreading said:

“First student loan in 1988” says it all. 

Student loan issues are far different now than in the 80s. 

Exactly.

Yes -- interest rates are higher. Tuition is completely out of control. Fix that. Then come back and talk to me. Maybe I'll stop reading after the first sentence.