No Free Speech on American College Campuses

dmaradona10

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

Ledbetterman10

This has become all too common. Rather than disagreeing with the "controversial speaker" (it's usually just some ho-hum conservative like the woman in the video you posted), or holding a counter-event, they try to block the speaker from even speaking. 

gimmesometruth27

i turned it off as soon as john stossel started talking. 

so you are upset your conservative rabble rouser kent state gun girl got run off of the campus. cry me a river. 

Ledbetterman10

gimmesometruth27 said:

i turned it off as soon as john stossel started talking. 

There was no way this was not going to be a response in this thread. 

gimmesometruth27

do we really have to re-hash that "people are free to speak but they are also free to suffer consequences of that speech" again?

Spiritual_Chaos

HughFreakingDillon

funny how the trumpsters cheer when their leader forcibly removes someone from his rallies because they are shouting something he doesn't like, all the while spouting disappointment at not being allowed to beat the shit out of them, yet they get all snowflakey about not being able to speak on college campuses. 

shadowcast

gimmesometruth27 said:

do we really have to re-hash that "people are free to speak but they are also free to suffer consequences of that speech" again?Like ANIFA consequences like beat the living shit out of you? 

CM189191

obligatory

HughFreakingDillon

CM189191 said:

obligatory

the amount of people using "free speech" as their shield, while simultaneously not understanding what it means, is ASTOUNDING

CM189191

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

obligatory

the amount of people using "free speech" as their shield, while simultaneously not understanding what it means, is ASTOUNDING

I imagine the venn diagram would overlap significantly with those who don't understand what well-regulated means, too

josevolution

Like this doesn’t happen on the other side! Both sides do it get over it this is the divided America created by yrs of partisanship..and the number one instigator is the orange Baffoon!

lindamarie73

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

lindamarie73

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keeping America Great.  

what dreams

gimmesometruth27 said:

i turned it off as soon as john stossel started talking. 

so you are upset your conservative rabble rouser kent state gun girl got run off of the campus. cry me a river. 

I think it's really unfortunate that you wouldn't even give yourself the opportunity  to play it through and consider an alternative point of view. The professor being interviewed -- I've read one of her books several years ago when the country was reeling over the Baltimore riot. I don't necessarily agree that she should subtitle her campus talk "Why Police Are the Real Victims" (she's just asking for push-back with a title like that, in my view), but she does make a good point that people living in crime ridden neighborhoods deserve to be protected and live free from fear in their own homes. I also agree with her in this video that our current generation of young people do suffer from a victim-hood syndrome -- these kids, she says, live incredibly privileged lives on campuses with everything at their fingertips and somehow think of themselves as "oppressed" when they are among the most fortunate people who have ever lived in human history. I agree with those points. I don't think they are particularly difficult ideas to agree with. I'm pretty sick of the elite slice of this current generation coming up with their sense of entitlement, in general. I understand there are some hard-working young people out there, and 2/3 of high school grads don't go to college and have the luxury of protesting a speaker they don't agree with. Two-thirds of high school grads will never have what these young elites will have when they finish their degree that they don't want to pay for.  It really is disturbing, in my view, their obliviousness to their own privilege while they point figures at everyone else about their "oppression."  That's what I call "cry me a river."

Smellyman

Stossel is a nutter and has well earned rep over decades to ignore.

what dreams

And this ^^^^ is why I wonder how people expect this democracy to survive. You're basically making the argument easy for "the nutters" to win. When you dismiss people instead of attacking the argument, you lose.  When you refuse to show up with the power of your ideas, you lose. Don't turn Stossel, et. al., off. Confront them face on and actually win an argument. 

rgambs

what dreams said:

And this ^^^^ is why I wonder how people expect this democracy to survive. You're basically making the argument easy for "the nutters" to win. When you dismiss people instead of attacking the argument, you lose.  When you refuse to show up with the power of your ideas, you lose. Don't turn Stossel, et. al., off. Confront them face on and actually win an argument. 

It's not worth the effort.  You don't argue with crazy/stupid, crazy/stupid doesn't lose.
Does the force of argument matter to flat earthers, birthers, or orange girthers?
Nope.

Spiritual_Chaos

lindamarie73 said:

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

You can say that again about going to college in the 90’s....That clip was spot on about most college campuses, thanks 4 sharing it.   I spend way too much time around these rotten brain college nit wits who all seem to feel they are oppressed or owed something.  They are all on the Bernie “free shit” train so at least they are doing their part in Keep America Great.  

Is anyone of them signal boosting made up bullshit that Greta Thunberg is part of ANTIFA ?

CM189191

rgambs said:

what dreams said:

And this ^^^^ is why I wonder how people expect this democracy to survive. You're basically making the argument easy for "the nutters" to win. When you dismiss people instead of attacking the argument, you lose.  When you refuse to show up with the power of your ideas, you lose. Don't turn Stossel, et. al., off. Confront them face on and actually win an argument. 

It's not worth the effort.  You don't argue with crazy/stupid, crazy/stupid doesn't lose.
Does the force of argument matter to flat earthers, birthers, or orange girthers?
Nope.

^this

gimmesometruth27

what dreams said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i turned it off as soon as john stossel started talking. 

so you are upset your conservative rabble rouser kent state gun girl got run off of the campus. cry me a river. 

I think it's really unfortunate that you wouldn't even give yourself the opportunity  to play it through and consider an alternative point of view. The professor being interviewed -- I've read one of her books several years ago when the country was reeling over the Baltimore riot. I don't necessarily agree that she should subtitle her campus talk "Why Police Are the Real Victims" (she's just asking for push-back with a title like that, in my view), but she does make a good point that people living in crime ridden neighborhoods deserve to be protected and live free from fear in their own homes. I also agree with her in this video that our current generation of young people do suffer from a victim-hood syndrome -- these kids, she says, live incredibly privileged lives on campuses with everything at their fingertips and somehow think of themselves as "oppressed" when they are among the most fortunate people who have ever lived in human history. I agree with those points. I don't think they are particularly difficult ideas to agree with. I'm pretty sick of the elite slice of this current generation coming up with their sense of entitlement, in general. I understand there are some hard-working young people out there, and 2/3 of high school grads don't go to college and have the luxury of protesting a speaker they don't agree with. Two-thirds of high school grads will never have what these young elites will have when they finish their degree that they don't want to pay for.  It really is disturbing, in my view, their obliviousness to their own privilege while they point figures at everyone else about their "oppression."  That's what I call "cry me a river."

no, i think it is pretty fortunate that i turned if off. thanks though.

Smellyman

hedonist

It’s a shame that a reasonable and articulate response was poo-pooed as much as the link in the OP. 

Matts3221

dmaradona10 said:

Glad I went to college in the 1990s where there was a diversity of viewpoints and opinions.  Speakers with controversial viewpoints were a common occurrence as well. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEyUsDprPY

I know I know why even bother because nothing would really matter or change minds. Colleges in the 90's when I went had protest for hard line viewers , again I always find it funny  ( Much like trump ) that these people will basically yell fire in a crowded movie theater and make the most inflammatory comments you can imaging and then act so surprised that they show up somewhere and people are there to protest ( looking at your Rush L as we did protest you coming to our campus in 1997 )

I am all for a civil discussion were those that have opposing views and figuring things out , I am not for those that have nothing but hate and again say high controversial opinions , also keep in mind most of them know there will be a protest but show up again for the whole " oh my , I just came here to speak nicely but you all hate me " and then they are picked up on fox.

I am sure Sean Hannity has a running list of guest ( Kent State Gun Girl ) who show up to just cause a ruckus but have no intention of ever having an actual debate with those with opposing view points.

Go Beavers

Ledbetterman10 said:

This has become all too common. Rather than disagreeing with the "controversial speaker" (it's usually just some ho-hum conservative like the woman in the video you posted), or holding a counter-event, they try to block the speaker from even speaking. 

Is it really all too common or is this a fear driven narrative by the right wing, using anecdotal incidents,  to polarize society and create an enemy in the “educated elite”?  

I started college in 88 and there was always this nutjob preacher on the mall that would make the rounds at different schools. One day he had a gash on his head because someone threw a rock and hit him on the head at his previous stop at Indiana University. 

Ledbetterman10

Go Beavers said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

This has become all too common. Rather than disagreeing with the "controversial speaker" (it's usually just some ho-hum conservative like the woman in the video you posted), or holding a counter-event, they try to block the speaker from even speaking. 

Is it really all too common or is this a fear driven narrative by the right wing, using anecdotal incidents,  to polarize society and create an enemy in the “educated elite”?  

Or maybe this is a deflective narrative by you: suggesting it’s just a fear-driven narrative, dismissing incidents as “anecdotal,” and claiming that it’s meant to create an enemy. I’m not on the left or the right so I don’t want to judge narrative battles. But from my perspective, I’ve seen or read about enough of these incidents to believe there’s something to the right’s “narrative.”

tbergs

Ledbetterman10 said:

Go Beavers said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

This has become all too common. Rather than disagreeing with the "controversial speaker" (it's usually just some ho-hum conservative like the woman in the video you posted), or holding a counter-event, they try to block the speaker from even speaking. 

Is it really all too common or is this a fear driven narrative by the right wing, using anecdotal incidents,  to polarize society and create an enemy in the “educated elite”?  

Or maybe this is a deflective narrative by you: suggesting it’s just a fear-driven narrative, dismissing incidents as “anecdotal,” and claiming that it’s meant to create an enemy. I’m not on the left or the right so I don’t want to judge narrative battles. But from my perspective, I’ve seen or read about enough of these incidents to believe there’s something to the right’s “narrative.”

Lots of references to the 90's and how accepting colleges were. How does anyone actually know that besides what they remember from their own experience? With the social media craze of the past 10 years and our current POTUS, everything is now blown up and given attention. I'm sure plenty of opposing crazy views were rejected in the 80's and 90's, the difference is that no one cared or gave the nut job a voice. The college said no and they went away or went back to their niche crowd that found their opinions in personally printed papers and brochures littered in the entry of the local establishment looking to draw in the free thinkers of the world. Now they can upload their own videos and tweet @ some like minded nut job with a high profile and then end up getting some media that feeds the narrative whichever way makes it more popular among the target audience.

HughFreakingDillon

maybe these colleges aren't against conservatives per say, maybe just conservatives who have a high probability of inciting, or at least being a direct or indirect cause of violence?

do colleges routinely schedule antifa representatives to speak on campus?

what dreams

HughFreakingDillon said:

maybe these colleges aren't against conservatives per say, maybe just conservatives who have a high probability of inciting, or at least being a direct or indirect cause of violence?

do colleges routinely schedule antifa representatives to speak on campus?

They don't have to schedule them. They're already paid faculty in the humanities  departments.

Spoken like an English major of the 90s.

what dreams

CM189191 said:

rgambs said:

what dreams said:

And this ^^^^ is why I wonder how people expect this democracy to survive. You're basically making the argument easy for "the nutters" to win. When you dismiss people instead of attacking the argument, you lose.  When you refuse to show up with the power of your ideas, you lose. Don't turn Stossel, et. al., off. Confront them face on and actually win an argument. 

It's not worth the effort.  You don't argue with crazy/stupid, crazy/stupid doesn't lose.
Does the force of argument matter to flat earthers, birthers, or orange girthers?
Nope.

^this

Except this particular speaker has published well-documented research about inner city crime, urban citizens' attitudes toward it, and police training and response to it. Wish I could remember the title of the book I read. It opened up a lot of thinking for me. Reading it didn't turn me into a hater of black people or less sympathetic to BLM or sway me to believe police are perfect enforcers of the law. It did help me understand the issues African Americans face in their neighborhoods, though, and how a large number of cities in America have successful programs in place to bring citizens and police together, which never makes the news.

It's so bizarre to me that supposedly well educated people would be so opposed to reading or having discussions with people with opposing viewpoints. 

Go Beavers

what dreams said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

maybe these colleges aren't against conservatives per say, maybe just conservatives who have a high probability of inciting, or at least being a direct or indirect cause of violence?

do colleges routinely schedule antifa representatives to speak on campus?

They don't have to schedule them. They're already paid faculty in the humanities  departments.

Spoken like an English major of the 90s.

I would think most professors are anti-fascist.