The Democratic Presidential Debates

static111

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......

Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.

Bernie was helped by a wide field.

popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals

I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 

I think it's a bit of both:
1. Bernie has not made inroads with the black community or women.  That's on him.
2. White males have moved away from him, that tells you that 2016 was anti-Hillary for many
3. His voters are passionate and hard core.  I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him, although respect his passion.  That's where I am.  But I don't like ALL of his policies either. 

I’m a pretty hardcore supporter and I don’t like all of his policies either.  To me it has really always been the view that politics is about compromise and if you can get some of the really radical stuff into the discussion that policy can change.  There are some drastic long term changes that need to be made for the health of our planet and society. Granted a cranky old man that has consistently stood his ground with an all or none attitude is not the face of compromise for most.  At the very least the Sanders movement has hopefully shown the Dems that it is safe to move to the left of moderate Republicans. Which is a lesson I think Democrat’s have needed to learn for quite a while.

cincybearcat

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is the Bernie surge happening?

So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.

I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?

Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.

rgambs

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is the Bernie surge happening?

So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.

I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?

Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.

Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.

cincybearcat

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is the Bernie surge happening?

So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.

I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?

Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.

Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.

Cool.  I'm sorry you lost your candidate (truly am).  But I believe Bernie is not what we need.  I believe several of his positions are fine and what we need, but others are terrible. 

He is certainly be spot on, or very close to it, with the medical world we live in.  I'm ok with any plan that ensures coverage for all, and I'm willing to do whatever needed to pay for that.  I'll admit I was much slower than Bernie to get there.  I do feel that Obamacare with a public option is a great idea for today.  And if public option is better, people will head that way.  We shall see.  I'm basically for whatever Biden plan is since he has to beat trump.

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Now THAT'S a good one!

Lerxst1992

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

rgambs said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Is the Bernie surge happening?

So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.

I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?

Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.

Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.

Cool.  I'm sorry you lost your candidate (truly am).  But I believe Bernie is not what we need.  I believe several of his positions are fine and what we need, but others are terrible. 

He is certainly be spot on, or very close to it, with the medical world we live in.  I'm ok with any plan that ensures coverage for all, and I'm willing to do whatever needed to pay for that.  I'll admit I was much slower than Bernie to get there.  I do feel that Obamacare with a public option is a great idea for today.  And if public option is better, people will head that way.  We shall see.  I'm basically for whatever Biden plan is since he has to beat trump.

Stop, you left wing extremist!

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......

Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.

Its actually 9.99 million votes and the 2.5 million difference (one third of sanders total vote count) would be much greater if Ohio voted and there was no virus holding down votes in IL.

Democrats screamed and yelled because Hillary "won" by 2.8 million votes amongst the entire country, while biden has roughly the same lead only accounting for roughly half of one party's primary vote.

This was a complete rejection of Sanders candidacy and actually stripped him of his perceived 2016 strength.

Curious, how big was trump's lead at this point in 2016? Did Rubio's voters get a big say in the platform?

Lerxst1992

Trump won Super Tuesday over Cruz by 35 delegates and the vote was 34% to 29%. Seems very close in comparison 

Yet trumps perceived strength from that day expanded his power over voters in the following races. He never looked back and never had to grant concessions.

A couple weeks after Super Tuesday trump essentially declared himself nominee by announcing he was done with debates and the remaing debates never happened. 

While biden has a much more decisive win and is being leveraged by the loser.

This is why Democrats lose elections.

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

Trump won Super Tuesday over Cruz by 35 delegates and the vote was 34% to 29%. Seems very close in comparison 

Yet trumps perceived strength from that day expanded his power over voters in the following races. He never looked back and never had to grant concessions.

A couple weeks after Super Tuesday trump essentially declared himself nominee by announcing he was done with debates and the remaing debates never happened. 

While biden has a much more decisive win and is being leveraged by the loser.

This is why Democrats lose elections.

So Democrats should be more like Republicans? check. It’s looking more and more like election 2016 out there.

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:0

Trump won Super Tuesday over Cruz by 35 delegates and the vote was 34% to 29%. Seems very close in comparison 

Yet trumps perceived strength from that day expanded his power over voters in the following races. He never looked back and never had to grant concessions.

A couple weeks after Super Tuesday trump essentially declared himself nominee by announcing he was done with debates and the remaing debates never happened. 

While biden has a much more decisive win and is being leveraged by the loser.

This is why Democrats lose elections.

So Democrats should be more like Republicans? check. It’s looking more and more like election 2016 out there.

Instead of name calling them maybe consider there is a valuable lesson to be learned.

Biden needs to build his organization,  raise funds, and focus the attack on Republicans and trump.

Giving sanders one more day the ability to attack ANY other democrat only helps trump win and possibly gets us a Republican supreme court for 40 years. You'll never see any Sanders pie in the sky policy if that happens or at least until everyone on this forum is grandparent age.

CM189191

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

Tulsi did and endorsed Biden.  I'm surprised she didn't endorse Trump. 

Hi!

Tulsi out, endorsing Biden.

CM189191

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

Tulsi did and endorsed Biden.  I'm surprised she didn't endorse Trump. 

me too

I thought for sure she was going to muck things up by running 3rd party

This was a smart thing for her to do

mickeyrat

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

seems to be leaning that way. suspended adbook ads and stopped soliciting donations....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaign-signals-sanders-may-be-open-to-exit/2020/03/18/9cd71a1a-692f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

CM189191

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

seems to be leaning that way. suspended adbook ads and stopped soliciting donations....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaign-signals-sanders-may-be-open-to-exit/2020/03/18/9cd71a1a-692f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

well he needs to get on with it then.

everything with Bernie is 'we need it now!'

think about the number of (mostly elderly) voters who had to unnecessarily congregate in tight spaces last Tuesday. 

How many more people got sick because of Bernie's selfishness?

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

seems to be leaning that way. suspended adbook ads and stopped soliciting donations....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaign-signals-sanders-may-be-open-to-exit/2020/03/18/9cd71a1a-692f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

well he needs to get on with it then.

everything with Bernie is 'we need it now!'

think about the number of (mostly elderly) voters who had to unnecessarily congregate in tight spaces last Tuesday. 

How many more people got sick because of Bernie's selfishness?

Agreed, it was foolish and selfish when there is no path.  

static111

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

seems to be leaning that way. suspended adbook ads and stopped soliciting donations....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaign-signals-sanders-may-be-open-to-exit/2020/03/18/9cd71a1a-692f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

well he needs to get on with it then.

everything with Bernie is 'we need it now!'

think about the number of (mostly elderly) voters who had to unnecessarily congregate in tight spaces last Tuesday. 

How many more people got sick because of Bernie's selfishness?

Agreed, it was foolish and selfish when there is no path.  

By this logic if polling shows Trump to have a significant lead over Biden  in say September would it be selfish for Biden to stay in the race and potentially make more people sick just so they could vote for him?  

benjs

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

did Bernie drop out yet?

Bernie needs to drop out and support Biden

seems to be leaning that way. suspended adbook ads and stopped soliciting donations....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaign-signals-sanders-may-be-open-to-exit/2020/03/18/9cd71a1a-692f-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

well he needs to get on with it then.

everything with Bernie is 'we need it now!'

think about the number of (mostly elderly) voters who had to unnecessarily congregate in tight spaces last Tuesday. 

How many more people got sick because of Bernie's selfishness?

Agreed, it was foolish and selfish when there is no path.  

By this logic if polling shows Trump to have a significant lead over Biden  in say September would it be selfish for Biden to stay in the race and potentially make more people sick just so they could vote for him?  

That depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to remove Trump from office, then it would be moronic for Biden to exit the race. The pragmatic solution is for each state to exclusively allow voting by mail.