GMO Animals for Food

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

I've found that most people who are anti-GMO don't have a clue what they are talking about lol
They generally don't have a clue about where their food comes from at all. 
They've never seen the input and output of a farm, be it organic, traditional, modern, mono-crop, CAFO, or anything beyond what they find in a grocery store.
Worse still, most people have a sum total knowledge of genetics that begins and ends with that one scene in Jurassic Park.

 Most of the food we eat has been genetically modified.  Period.

GMO foods aren't unsafe just because they aren't wild versions of themselves, but that's not a blanket approval either, as pesticide resistance is not a responsible use of modification techniques.

Well said.

Corn is the most GMO food grown out there I believe.  Sweet corn, feed corn, fuel corn.  They've got it all.

I wasn't even talking about the patented modern GMO crops, I was talking about the fact that all of our food is genetically modified through selective breeding.
People who make a non-specific distinction are not usually very well educated on genetics or epigenetics.  If you are, you realize that "science" doesn't distinguish between the natural and unnatural, it only matters whether something works or not.
People hear about the sensational stuff, like making ordinary organisms bio-luminescent, and they think, "My good Lord, how unnatural that is!" and that's just not an informed or enlightened reaction.  
These same people eat massive heads of cauliflower each day and have never looked at a wild mustard plant and noted the differences.  Is cauliflower "natural"?  No.
Is a seedless watermelon a GMO freak?  Yes.  Breeding, gene splicing, epigenetics, it's all the same and the ramifications and sustainability of the species in question is the same equation no matter the source of modification.

Anybody here ever watched a Cornish X grow next to a (still highly modifiy) Heritage breed bird?  It's literal insanity.

I agree with everything you said above.  Part of me thinks that the GMO labels are nothing more than a marketing ploy.  You see this strategy everywhere, from “Grass fed” beef to most things “diet” actually being just as unhealthy as the regular.  People see “non-GMO” and automatically think they are getting something healthier, which is not necessarily the case.

I am coming around on GMO foods.  As mentioned above the "seedless" variety can't regrow so it's a novelty.

Pot is a great example of GMO.  The shit these mad scientists do now is crazy son!

The fish GMO I am still not sold on.  I mentioned mercury but the levels in these smaller fish isn't a crazy amount compared to the bigger Tunas.

I did read an article about the GMO fish having more bad omega 6 and less good omega 3's than a farm raised.  That was interesting.

Can you link that article please? 

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

I've found that most people who are anti-GMO don't have a clue what they are talking about lol
They generally don't have a clue about where their food comes from at all. 
They've never seen the input and output of a farm, be it organic, traditional, modern, mono-crop, CAFO, or anything beyond what they find in a grocery store.
Worse still, most people have a sum total knowledge of genetics that begins and ends with that one scene in Jurassic Park.

 Most of the food we eat has been genetically modified.  Period.

GMO foods aren't unsafe just because they aren't wild versions of themselves, but that's not a blanket approval either, as pesticide resistance is not a responsible use of modification techniques.

Well said.

Corn is the most GMO food grown out there I believe.  Sweet corn, feed corn, fuel corn.  They've got it all.

I wasn't even talking about the patented modern GMO crops, I was talking about the fact that all of our food is genetically modified through selective breeding.
People who make a non-specific distinction are not usually very well educated on genetics or epigenetics.  If you are, you realize that "science" doesn't distinguish between the natural and unnatural, it only matters whether something works or not.
People hear about the sensational stuff, like making ordinary organisms bio-luminescent, and they think, "My good Lord, how unnatural that is!" and that's just not an informed or enlightened reaction.  
These same people eat massive heads of cauliflower each day and have never looked at a wild mustard plant and noted the differences.  Is cauliflower "natural"?  No.
Is a seedless watermelon a GMO freak?  Yes.  Breeding, gene splicing, epigenetics, it's all the same and the ramifications and sustainability of the species in question is the same equation no matter the source of modification.

Anybody here ever watched a Cornish X grow next to a (still highly modifiy) Heritage breed bird?  It's literal insanity.

I agree with everything you said above.  Part of me thinks that the GMO labels are nothing more than a marketing ploy.  You see this strategy everywhere, from “Grass fed” beef to most things “diet” actually being just as unhealthy as the regular.  People see “non-GMO” and automatically think they are getting something healthier, which is not necessarily the case.

I am coming around on GMO foods.  As mentioned above the "seedless" variety can't regrow so it's a novelty.

Pot is a great example of GMO.  The shit these mad scientists do now is crazy son!

The fish GMO I am still not sold on.  I mentioned mercury but the levels in these smaller fish isn't a crazy amount compared to the bigger Tunas.

I did read an article about the GMO fish having more bad omega 6 and less good omega 3's than a farm raised.  That was interesting.

Can you link that article please? 

Here is one from a doctor.  He seems adamant about not eating farm raised.
https://www.drperlmutter.com/5-reasons-avoid-farm-raised-fish/

Here is another.
https://naturallivingfamily.com/farm-raised-fish/

There are a bunch of them out there.  I didn't understand the Omega 6 reference until recently as I thought all Omega's were good and that is in fact wrong.

I can't find the article I read about farms using soy and grain instead of fishmeal.  I know I read it recently though...

rgambs

tempo_n_groove said:

@rgambs what about "heirloom" variety's?  Aren't these older, tried and true, select types that thrive no matter what?

I grew heirloom Brandywine maters and they are still my favorite I have grown.

They are older, they are tried and true and adapted to the demands of growers and growing environments, but they are definitely still heavily genetically modified organisms.
I like German Johnsons, but Pink Brandywine is a close second.

rgambs

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

bbiggs

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

This is absolutely true. I know what you’re taking about unfortunately. Not good! 

tempo_n_groove

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

rgambs

bbiggs said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

This is absolutely true. I know what you’re taking about unfortunately. Not good! 

Not sustainable and ripe for abuse, but not always bad.
A chicken that lays a 70g egg nearly every single day on a free-range and grain-supported diet can be a wonderful thing, and  so can a broiler that reaches market weight in 2 months...in responsible hands.

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

I've found that most people who are anti-GMO don't have a clue what they are talking about lol
They generally don't have a clue about where their food comes from at all. 
They've never seen the input and output of a farm, be it organic, traditional, modern, mono-crop, CAFO, or anything beyond what they find in a grocery store.
Worse still, most people have a sum total knowledge of genetics that begins and ends with that one scene in Jurassic Park.

 Most of the food we eat has been genetically modified.  Period.

GMO foods aren't unsafe just because they aren't wild versions of themselves, but that's not a blanket approval either, as pesticide resistance is not a responsible use of modification techniques.

Well said.

Corn is the most GMO food grown out there I believe.  Sweet corn, feed corn, fuel corn.  They've got it all.

I wasn't even talking about the patented modern GMO crops, I was talking about the fact that all of our food is genetically modified through selective breeding.
People who make a non-specific distinction are not usually very well educated on genetics or epigenetics.  If you are, you realize that "science" doesn't distinguish between the natural and unnatural, it only matters whether something works or not.
People hear about the sensational stuff, like making ordinary organisms bio-luminescent, and they think, "My good Lord, how unnatural that is!" and that's just not an informed or enlightened reaction.  
These same people eat massive heads of cauliflower each day and have never looked at a wild mustard plant and noted the differences.  Is cauliflower "natural"?  No.
Is a seedless watermelon a GMO freak?  Yes.  Breeding, gene splicing, epigenetics, it's all the same and the ramifications and sustainability of the species in question is the same equation no matter the source of modification.

Anybody here ever watched a Cornish X grow next to a (still highly modifiy) Heritage breed bird?  It's literal insanity.

I agree with everything you said above.  Part of me thinks that the GMO labels are nothing more than a marketing ploy.  You see this strategy everywhere, from “Grass fed” beef to most things “diet” actually being just as unhealthy as the regular.  People see “non-GMO” and automatically think they are getting something healthier, which is not necessarily the case.

I am coming around on GMO foods.  As mentioned above the "seedless" variety can't regrow so it's a novelty.

Pot is a great example of GMO.  The shit these mad scientists do now is crazy son!

The fish GMO I am still not sold on.  I mentioned mercury but the levels in these smaller fish isn't a crazy amount compared to the bigger Tunas.

I did read an article about the GMO fish having more bad omega 6 and less good omega 3's than a farm raised.  That was interesting.

Can you link that article please? 

Here is one from a doctor.  He seems adamant about not eating farm raised.
https://www.drperlmutter.com/5-reasons-avoid-farm-raised-fish/

Here is another.
https://naturallivingfamily.com/farm-raised-fish/

There are a bunch of them out there.  I didn't understand the Omega 6 reference until recently as I thought all Omega's were good and that is in fact wrong.

I can't find the article I read about farms using soy and grain instead of fishmeal.  I know I read it recently though...

Thanks for the links. I have too much to do at work right now to respond fully but will try to later. 

The PCB data that both talk about seems to be old, early 2000s. There is more recent data that doesn’t show that much elevation. 

Also, both articles you posted talk about the fishmeal component in the food. There are some grains, certainly, but it’s not fully grains. 

The first article expressed concern about the food conversion ratio and talked about needing two or three times the weight of other fish to grow the salmon. That just how it works with animals. Wild salmon would also need to eat a substantial amount of other fish as well as plankton, etc, to grow, so that one is kind of irrelevant. 
 

bbiggs

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

Precisely. 

rgambs

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

I get that, we've all seen The Fly lol
But the reality is that however you get there, the result is the same...critters that push the boundaries of their genetic potential, and beyond!

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

I've found that most people who are anti-GMO don't have a clue what they are talking about lol
They generally don't have a clue about where their food comes from at all. 
They've never seen the input and output of a farm, be it organic, traditional, modern, mono-crop, CAFO, or anything beyond what they find in a grocery store.
Worse still, most people have a sum total knowledge of genetics that begins and ends with that one scene in Jurassic Park.

 Most of the food we eat has been genetically modified.  Period.

GMO foods aren't unsafe just because they aren't wild versions of themselves, but that's not a blanket approval either, as pesticide resistance is not a responsible use of modification techniques.

Well said.

Corn is the most GMO food grown out there I believe.  Sweet corn, feed corn, fuel corn.  They've got it all.

I wasn't even talking about the patented modern GMO crops, I was talking about the fact that all of our food is genetically modified through selective breeding.
People who make a non-specific distinction are not usually very well educated on genetics or epigenetics.  If you are, you realize that "science" doesn't distinguish between the natural and unnatural, it only matters whether something works or not.
People hear about the sensational stuff, like making ordinary organisms bio-luminescent, and they think, "My good Lord, how unnatural that is!" and that's just not an informed or enlightened reaction.  
These same people eat massive heads of cauliflower each day and have never looked at a wild mustard plant and noted the differences.  Is cauliflower "natural"?  No.
Is a seedless watermelon a GMO freak?  Yes.  Breeding, gene splicing, epigenetics, it's all the same and the ramifications and sustainability of the species in question is the same equation no matter the source of modification.

Anybody here ever watched a Cornish X grow next to a (still highly modifiy) Heritage breed bird?  It's literal insanity.

I agree with everything you said above.  Part of me thinks that the GMO labels are nothing more than a marketing ploy.  You see this strategy everywhere, from “Grass fed” beef to most things “diet” actually being just as unhealthy as the regular.  People see “non-GMO” and automatically think they are getting something healthier, which is not necessarily the case.

I am coming around on GMO foods.  As mentioned above the "seedless" variety can't regrow so it's a novelty.

Pot is a great example of GMO.  The shit these mad scientists do now is crazy son!

The fish GMO I am still not sold on.  I mentioned mercury but the levels in these smaller fish isn't a crazy amount compared to the bigger Tunas.

I did read an article about the GMO fish having more bad omega 6 and less good omega 3's than a farm raised.  That was interesting.

Can you link that article please? 

Here is one from a doctor.  He seems adamant about not eating farm raised.
https://www.drperlmutter.com/5-reasons-avoid-farm-raised-fish/

Here is another.
https://naturallivingfamily.com/farm-raised-fish/

There are a bunch of them out there.  I didn't understand the Omega 6 reference until recently as I thought all Omega's were good and that is in fact wrong.

I can't find the article I read about farms using soy and grain instead of fishmeal.  I know I read it recently though...

Thanks for the links. I have too much to do at work right now to respond fully but will try to later. 

The PCB data that both talk about seems to be old, early 2000s. There is more recent data that doesn’t show that much elevation. 

Also, both articles you posted talk about the fishmeal component in the food. There are some grains, certainly, but it’s not fully grains. 

The first article expressed concern about the food conversion ratio and talked about needing two or three times the weight of other fish to grow the salmon. That just how it works with animals. Wild salmon would also need to eat a substantial amount of other fish as well as plankton, etc, to grow, so that one is kind of irrelevant. 
 

I'll look to see if I can find other articles on the Omega numbers.  These are getting numbers from 2008 and the doctor was from 2013.

As for the feeding I said I can't find the article that says they use soy and  grain.  That may have been from a specific hatchery.  The web is a rabbit hole sometimes and I don't write down the sources, I probably should now because I can't find the damn things.

tempo_n_groove

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

I get that, we've all seen The Fly lol
But the reality is that however you get there, the result is the same...critters that push the boundaries of their genetic potential, and beyond!

I would like to clone Michael Jordan and see if he would have the same "will to win" as his original self.

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

I get that, we've all seen The Fly lol
But the reality is that however you get there, the result is the same...critters that push the boundaries of their genetic potential, and beyond!

I would like to clone Michael Jordan and see if he would have the same "will to win" as his original self.

Clone ten, put each  in a  different family, and see how they develop. Would be a fascinating, and totally unethical, experiment  
 

brianlux

Cloning humans has already been done with very strange results:

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

rgambs said:

bbiggs said:

When it comes to GMO crops, I don’t necessarily view it the same way as GMO animals.  Maybe I need to get more educated on the science of it all, but as a person with limited knowledge, the concept of GMO animals is disturbing to me. Unfortunately with the planet’s population problem, this may become a necessity rather than an option at some point. 

You might be advised not to do any deep research on domesticated chickens, turkey, pigs, or cattle...there is plenty about them to disturb you!

I'm going to speak for bbiggs and say it's not the cross breading to make a better animal but the actual diving into DNA and splicing of genes perhaps that will scare most people.

Cloning comes to mind.

I get that, we've all seen The Fly lol
But the reality is that however you get there, the result is the same...critters that push the boundaries of their genetic potential, and beyond!

I would like to clone Michael Jordan and see if he would have the same "will to win" as his original self.

Clone ten, put each  in a  different family, and see how they develop. Would be a fascinating, and totally unethical, experiment  
 

I'm actually all for that but when they start making babies there will be people looking to get paid for them chromosomes!

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Cloning humans has already been done with very strange results:

LOL.

I take it that you will never accept that GMO products are safe?  

brianlux

Why GMO animal foods when we could have plenty of yummy Soylent Green!  Mmmm soyyyyyyyyyland green!

oftenreading

brianlux said:

Why GMO animal foods when we could have plenty of yummy Soylent Green!  Mmmm soyyyyyyyyyland green!

Well, honestly, of those two choices I’d take GMO animals, but you do you, Brian  

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Why GMO animal foods when we could have plenty of yummy Soylent Green!  Mmmm soyyyyyyyyyland green!

Well, honestly, of those two choices I’d take GMO animals, but you do you, Brian  

Actually, you know,  I'm like Mr. Natural.  I only eat organix!

josevolution

Screw farm raised fish no way I’d rather take my chances on wild caught or just eat what I fish , during summer here we buy our veggies from an organic farm ...