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A sensible, hope filled all-purpose heavy duty Global Warming/ Climate Change thread.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town

    I wish Folsom, California would consider doing the same.  The developers out this way a rabid, greedy, and careless.  California is forked up the asteroid.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,413
    brianlux said:
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town

    I wish Folsom, California would consider doing the same.  The developers out this way a rabid, greedy, and careless.  California is forked up the asteroid.
    I hear yeah, Brian.  The same thing is happening here.   In a few years, there will be no green spaces in my area that are worthwhile and free...This is my last summer in this area.  There is more to life than money, money, and money.  It's just greed, ignorance, and no concern for mother earth.  Too many god damn peolple.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    brianlux said:
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town

    I wish Folsom, California would consider doing the same.  The developers out this way a rabid, greedy, and careless.  California is forked up the asteroid.
    I hear yeah, Brian.  The same thing is happening here.   In a few years, there will be no green spaces in my area that are worthwhile and free...This is my last summer in this area.  There is more to life than money, money, and money.  It's just greed, ignorance, and no concern for mother earth.  Too many god damn peolple.

    Too many people- exactly!  Which makes it hard to find a place hasn't been over-developed and ruined.  A few weeks ago we were in San Francisco and too the Golden Gate Bridge on our way home.  There is a sign now along Highway 101 saying that visiting Muir Woods in Marin Country now requires advance reservations.   Used to be you could go there any week day and practically have the place to yourself.  Same with places like Yosemite, and that often requires much advanced planning to get in.  Too damn many people!

    But the big question is, where can one go anymore?!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    brianlux said:
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town

    I wish Folsom, California would consider doing the same.  The developers out this way a rabid, greedy, and careless.  California is forked up the asteroid.
    Basically during the dotcom boom, all of the surrounding areas in and around silicon valley were doing the same thing.  Other towns petitioned to widen roads where others said NO WAY and wanted the new bedroom communities to suffer in traffic, lol.  They still built them anyways.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    brianlux said:
    City in Utah had to stop being built because of concerns for water.  The spring that is there is not as vibrant as it once was.  

    This story is a month old but it caught my eye on the front page of the NYT this morning.
    https://www.planetizen.com/news/2021/06/113555-water-supply-concerns-prompt-development-moratorium-utah-town

    I wish Folsom, California would consider doing the same.  The developers out this way a rabid, greedy, and careless.  California is forked up the asteroid.
    Basically during the dotcom boom, all of the surrounding areas in and around silicon valley were doing the same thing.  Other towns petitioned to widen roads where others said NO WAY and wanted the new bedroom communities to suffer in traffic, lol.  They still built them anyways.

    OH man, you said it.  I grew up on the peninsula (bordering Palo Alto and Mountain View) and when we went over the Santa Cruz mountains on Hwy 17 to visit the Santa Cruz area on the coast we first drove through what is now Silicon Valley.  At that time, it was totally rural and mostly orchards and fields. 

    It looked like this:
    The Interesting History of Silicon Valley

    And it looks like this today:
    Corona virus fear in Silicon Valley - home office as a class question -  Newsy Today


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • rhanishanerhanishane NSW AustraliaPosts: 505
    America has requested our help with the wildfires.
    Our water tanker "Marie Bashir" just landed in California.. she saved my home in NSW during the peak of our bushfires in Australia in November 2019.
    Goodluck all
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    edited July 22
    America has requested our help with the wildfires.
    Our water tanker "Marie Bashir" just landed in California.. she saved my home in NSW during the peak of our bushfires in Australia in November 2019.
    Goodluck all

    We appreciate the help!  Thanks, Australia!

    Here are some pictures of Pyrocumlulus clouds over the Tamarak fire that at last update is now 43,900 acres. This fire is raging about an hour east of us in the Sierras. Pyrocumulus clouds, otherwise known as "fire clouds" or "flammagenitus" are defined as "a dense cumuliforum cloud associated with fire or volcanic eruptions. A flammagenitus cloud is produced by the intense heating of the air from the surface. The intense heat induces convection, which causes the air mass to rise to a point of stability, usually in the presence of moisture."

    These clouds can become very dangerous as the rise literally miles into the air, can send burning embers for many miles, and can cause lightning strikes which may further cause more wildfires. This was an awesome and rather troubling spectacle to see from our vantage point. The grey below is smoke and the white cloud that are similar in appearance to thunderheads are Pyrocumulus clouds. My wife took these photos just a few minutes apart.(Taken about halfway between our house and where the fire is.)
    IMG
    IMG
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    We had haze these past two days here in NY from the wild fires out west.  That is a crazy thing.
  • ZodZod Posts: 7,870
    We had haze these past two days here in NY from the wild fires out west.  That is a crazy thing.

    We've been lucky so far here on the coast of the pacific northwest.   The wind keeps blowing west(ish) off the ocean and pushing the smoke inland.  Its crazy looking at satellite images and realizing we're in this thin band of north america that doesn't have smoke right now.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    We had haze these past two days here in NY from the wild fires out west.  That is a crazy thing.

    I was just reading about that and how most of the smoke is coming from the Bootleg fire in southern Oregon.  It's close to 400,000 acres and only 38% contained, so a ways to go before that one is over. 

    Zod said:
    We had haze these past two days here in NY from the wild fires out west.  That is a crazy thing.

    We've been lucky so far here on the coast of the pacific northwest.   The wind keeps blowing west(ish) off the ocean and pushing the smoke inland.  Its crazy looking at satellite images and realizing we're in this thin band of north america that doesn't have smoke right now.

    Sometimes it feels like the whole world is on fire.  Good to know there are still some places where the smoke is not ubiquitous!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • rhanishanerhanishane NSW AustraliaPosts: 505
    this is how close it got to my house in NSW Australia when they were raging in 2019. Very scary knowing homes were being destroyed not far away. The wind change saved us.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    this is how close it got to my house in NSW Australia when they were raging in 2019. Very scary knowing homes were being destroyed not far away. The wind change saved us.

    Yikes!  Yeah, I know the feeling!

    I went to the store today and all around it was haze and a slight smell of smoke in the air and to the north west, just a miasma of thick grey smoke. 

    It's only July and we have at the very least 2 months, probably 3 more months or more of dry and (mostly at least) hot weather.  This constant worry about wildfires and even when they are not real close the months of heat and bad air. 

    So here we are again- another hellacious summer in the west.

    Crazy: 
    /ˈkrāzē/
    adjective:  Doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again.

    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • rhanishanerhanishane NSW AustraliaPosts: 505
    brianlux said:
    this is how close it got to my house in NSW Australia when they were raging in 2019. Very scary knowing homes were being destroyed not far away. The wind change saved us.

    Yikes!  Yeah, I know the feeling!

    I went to the store today and all around it was haze and a slight smell of smoke in the air and to the north west, just a miasma of thick grey smoke. 

    It's only July and we have at the very least 2 months, probably 3 more months or more of dry and (mostly at least) hot weather.  This constant worry about wildfires and even when they are not real close the months of heat and bad air. 

    So here we are again- another hellacious summer in the west.

    Crazy: 
    /ˈkrāzē/
    adjective:  Doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again.

    Oh well we are well into la Nina so now it has been too wet to mow my lawn for 3 months. We had a Major flooding event that basically inundated the whole east coast of NSW. One extreme to the next now freezing temps as winter has kicked in well and truly. Who knows what kind of summer we will have. A lot of bushland hasn't recovered. Although there is a lot of growth it did kill a lot of trees so many look like fuzzy tree trunks with no branches. Some hilltops around here look strangely bare where it looked like a bomb went off where fire ripped through. A lot of grass that winter Frost's will kill and dry out will be a concern.
    We get fire warnings even in winter as soon as we get a windy day. 
    I have seen fires cross wet marshes here and travel 30km in one afternoon in winter.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    Listening to NPR about climate change this morning.  They brought up flooding in Arizona because of the rain.

    I am guessing this person has never lived in a desert where it doesn't rain nor do they understand the "monsoon" season there.  In the mid 90's they made a "stupid motorist" law because of the rain.

    Rain in a desert is no joke!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    Listening to NPR about climate change this morning.  They brought up flooding in Arizona because of the rain.

    I am guessing this person has never lived in a desert where it doesn't rain nor do they understand the "monsoon" season there.  In the mid 90's they made a "stupid motorist" law because of the rain.

    Rain in a desert is no joke!

    stay out of the washes and gullies!!!
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    mickeyrat said:
    Listening to NPR about climate change this morning.  They brought up flooding in Arizona because of the rain.

    I am guessing this person has never lived in a desert where it doesn't rain nor do they understand the "monsoon" season there.  In the mid 90's they made a "stupid motorist" law because of the rain.

    Rain in a desert is no joke!

    stay out of the washes and gullies!!!
    You know the law!!!

    I used to go 4x4ing down the washes in my jeep after a rain.  Water came up to my doorwells.  Had a lot of fun doing that.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    mickeyrat said:
    Listening to NPR about climate change this morning.  They brought up flooding in Arizona because of the rain.

    I am guessing this person has never lived in a desert where it doesn't rain nor do they understand the "monsoon" season there.  In the mid 90's they made a "stupid motorist" law because of the rain.

    Rain in a desert is no joke!

    stay out of the washes and gullies!!!
    You know the law!!!

    I used to go 4x4ing down the washes in my jeep after a rain.  Water came up to my doorwells.  Had a lot of fun doing that.

    Grandma and an uncle lived on a 2 house property out near Casa Grande.

    2 things that really stand out. THE STARS!!! And the frogs that come out at night
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Listening to NPR about climate change this morning.  They brought up flooding in Arizona because of the rain.

    I am guessing this person has never lived in a desert where it doesn't rain nor do they understand the "monsoon" season there.  In the mid 90's they made a "stupid motorist" law because of the rain.

    Rain in a desert is no joke!

    stay out of the washes and gullies!!!
    You know the law!!!

    I used to go 4x4ing down the washes in my jeep after a rain.  Water came up to my doorwells.  Had a lot of fun doing that.

    Grandma and an uncle lived on a 2 house property out near Casa Grande.

    2 things that really stand out. THE STARS!!! And the frogs that come out at night
    Interesting enough Casa Grande is one of the towns I lived in.  I lived in AZ 3 different times over the years.

    AZ had a law(or were making one)  that lights were only supposed to illuminate down and not out or up.  They never did follow through with it I don't think?  It was so that they could maintain their contract w the US Govt and the observatory up north.  The growing population of Phx made it brighter and the telescope would be less effective for further distances.

    Not sure if that too can be linked to climate change or just a population boom.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779

    By CATHY BUSSEWITZ and MARTHA IRVINE  Today  CRANE, Texas (AP) — Rusted pipes litter the sandy fields of Ashley Williams Watt’s cattle ranch in windswept West Texas. The corroded skeletons are all that remain of hundreds of abandoned oil wells that were drilled long before her family owned the land. The wells, unable to produce any useful amounts of oil or gas, were plugged with cement decades ago and forgotten.  But something eerie is going on beneath the land, where Watt once played among the mesquite trees, jackrabbits and javelina and first drove the dirt roads at 10 years old. One by one, the wells seem to be unplugging themselves. They’re leaking dangerous chemicals that are seeping into groundwater beneath her ranch.  Ashley Williams Watt looks at a flag marking a spot where soil samples were taken at her ranch. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)  Ashley Williams Watt looks at an abandoned well wrapped with locks and chains on her ranch. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)  Brine-covered soil cracks as it dries in the hot sun on Ashley Williams Watt's cattle ranch. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)  Now 35, Watt believes the problems on her ranch, which sprawls across the oil-rich fields of the Permian Basin, are getting worse. In April, she found crude oil bubbling from an abandoned well. In June, an oil company worker called to alert her that another well was seeping pools of salty produced water, a byproduct of oil and gas extraction containing toxic chemicals.  “I’m watching this well literally just spew brine water into my water table, and then I have to go home at night, and I’m sweaty and tired and smelly, and I get in the shower, and I turn on the shower and I look at it, and I think, is this shower going to kill me?” Watt said.  ____  A GROWING THREAT  The crisis unfolding on Watt’s 75,000-acre ranch offers a window on a growing problem for the oil industry and the communities and governments that are often left to clean up the mess. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, 3.2 million abandoned oil and gas wells exist in the United States. About a third of them were plugged with cement, which is considered the proper way to prevent harmful chemical leaks. But most haven’t been plugged at all.  Many of the wells are releasing methane, a greenhouse gas containing about 86 times the climate-warming power of carbon dioxide over two decades. Some are leaking chemicals such as benzene, a known carcinogen, into fields and groundwater.  VIDEO: Forgotten oil wells leak, spew, pollute  Regulators don’t know where hundreds of thousands of abandoned wells are because many of them were drilled before modern record-keeping and plugging rules were established. They are a silent menace, threatening to explode or contaminate drinking water and leaking atmosphere-warming fumes each day that they’re unplugged. Without records of their whereabouts, it’s impossible to grasp the magnitude of the pollution or health problems they may be causing.  The problem isn’t confined to Texas. In recent years, abandoned wells have been found under brush deep in forests and beneath driveways in suburbia. On the Navajo Nation, a hiker stumbled across wells oozing brown and black fluid that smelled like motor oil. In Colorado, a basement exploded, killing a man and his brother-in-law who were repairing a water heater, after an abandoned flowline had leaked methane into the house.  A Wyoming school shut down for more than a year after students and teachers complained of headaches for weeks. Air quality tests revealed high levels of benzene and carbon dioxide, most likely from a nearby abandoned oil well. A garage in Pennsylvania exploded — a consequence, the state suspects, of abandoned gas wells.  Experts believe the problem is getting worse. Even before the viral pandemic, producers were declaring bankruptcy and abandoning oil fields after spending more on fracking operations than they ultimately could afford. Then the coronavirus halted travel, obliterating demand for fuel and leaving less money to properly plug wells.  President Joe Biden, who has built much of his domestic policy around a transition to cleaner energy sources, wants to spend billions to put unemployed wildcatters to work plugging the wells. But Congress is unlikely to allocate enough money to seriously confront the issue.  “If, all of a sudden, we could switch to all green renewable energy, that’s great, but these wells don’t disappear; they’re still going to be there,” said Mary Kang, an assistant professor of civil engineering at McGill University in Montreal who was among the first scientists to call attention to the danger of abandoned wells.  ____  TRACES OF BENZENE  After the discoveries on Watt’s ranch, traces of benzene showed up in the well that supplies her cattle's drinking water. Chevron, which owned at least two of the oil wells that recently came unplugged, began trucking in drinking water while its crews tried to fix the leaks. But Watt worried that her animals might have consumed contaminated water. So she had her 600 head of cattle hauled off to another part of her ranch.  “At this point," she said, “I cannot sell my cattle at market in good conscience, because I have no idea what is in them.”  Though Chevron officials maintained that the cattle could safely return, Watt disagreed.  She’s haunted by a memory of crude oil bubbling up in a toilet bowl at her family’s ranch when she was a teenager. Horrified, they turned off the well that supplied their water and switched to another well. They never found the source of the leak.  Representatives for Chevron said the company is committed to re-plugging the two wells that recently sprang leaks.  But Watt fears that dozens of other plugged and abandoned wells on her ranch might be deteriorating, and Chevron has no plans to check its other wells for problems. If Watt should inform Chevron of another leaking well, “if we have to take responsibility, we will and we’ll do the right thing by the landowner,” said Catie Mathews, a company spokeswoman.  Hailing from a long line of cattle ranchers, Watt never thought she’d be fighting this fight. After high school, she graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and worked in intelligence for the Marines. Even after she obtained an MBA from Harvard, she returned to the ranch.  Ashley Williams Watt, a fourth-generation cattle rancher, talks about her family's history in west Texas. (AP Video/Martha Irvine)  She packs a gun, but only on her own land. Though she’s passionate about protecting it, she doesn’t want to be called an “environmentalist” — that’s a dirty word out here. But she has to save her ranch.  “The story of my family," Watt said, "is a story of land, if nothing else.”  ____  LAYERS OF CONFUSION  Dispiriting as her situation is, Watt is luckier than some. She knows Chevron bears responsibility for two wells that recently sprang leaks on her property. But not every well has a clear responsible party. Some abandoned ones are so old and records so scarce that landowners or states are left to clean up the damage.  Molly Rooke, who co-owns a family ranch near Corpus Christi, Texas, faced that predicament in 2019, when an orphaned well blew out on her property, spewing chemicals. The 15,000-acre ranch contained dozens of orphaned wells, with exposed pipes not much taller than her own frame. Some pipes stuck out of the ground. Others were hidden in brush.  “We have problems finding the well head, and that’s above the ground,” Rooke said. “Then you have all these pipes underground, and there’s no record of where those go.”  Her only records of these wells that were drilled in the 1920s were scattered old photos and papers. She tried to contact companies that used to pump oil from the wells. No luck. One well had already leaked into a nearby river.  Rooke’s father tried for years to get the state to plug them. When he died, she took over the fight. Rooke and the consumer rights group Public Citizen sued the Texas Railroad Commission over its decision during the pandemic to suspend rules requiring operators to plug abandoned wells within a year. After her lawsuit sparked attention, the state sealed her wells.  “All the wells were so old, they were ticking time bombs,” Rooke said.  In this undated historical image provided by the University of Southern California library, people enjoy the beach in front of an oil field in Playa del Rey, Calif. (USC via AP)  _____  SEARCHING FOR LOST WELLS  The first successful commercial oil well in the U.S. was drilled in Pennsylvania in 1859. But few detailed records survived that early oil boom, which lasted several decades. Not until a century later would the industry develop modern plugging standards, which require filling abandoned wells with cement to prevent leaks.  These days, some abandoned wells have metal casings intact. But others were stripped of metal during World War II, making them hard to find. Still others were constructed from wood that rotted away and left only a hole in the ground.  Pennsylvania has located roughly 8,700 orphaned wells, mostly unplugged and in rural areas. Yet the problem is far larger. Based on historical photos and surveys, Pennsylvania estimates that between 100,000 and 560,000 additional unplugged wells remain scattered around the state.  “We’re not plugging fast enough to keep up with the wells we’re discovering,” said Seth Pelepko, an environmental program manager in the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection. “Our list is not getting smaller. It’s getting larger.”  Some states have taken to hiring well hunters who specialize in finding abandoned wells. They use metal detectors — first in helicopter surveys, then on the ground — to seek steel well casings. But metal detectors can't detect wells cased in wood. So they fly drones with laser imaging to seek depressions in the ground.  On her Texas ranch, Watt uses some of the same techniques to seek problematic aging wells. She has driven her land, looking for signs of trouble.  Sometimes, she finds a dark patch of earth using a drone. She calls one of the biggest the “elephant graveyard,” after a wasteland in the movie “The Lion King.” Rather than animal bones, her graveyard contains blackened mesquite trees.  The sand there is dark and reeks of oil. But Watt’s worry is the water below. Without it, she and her longtime ranch foreman, Marty White, and his wife — and their cattle — can’t live here. Water is the lifeblood of this place and all of West Texas.  “I told him, ‘I’ll take care of you,’ ” Watt said of White. “ ‘You’re going to have to trust me, and I don’t know what it looks like, but I’ll take care of you.’ ”  ____  LEAKING CHEMICALS AND MONEY  In addition to polluting groundwater, the wells are accelerating global warming. Unplugged, abandoned wells in the U.S. leaked 5,000 times more methane than plugged wells did, according to a 2015 study cited by the EPA. Unplugged wells leak 280,000 metric tons of methane into the atmosphere each year, according to an estimate by EPA, though experts have estimated far higher totals.  That amount of methane packs roughly the same climate-warming power as the carbon dioxide emitted by all the power plants in Massachusetts in a year, according to Daniel Raimi, a fellow at Resources for the Future, a research group.  Many states require companies to plug wells that are out of production and to post bonds in case they go belly-up. But the amounts are typically far lower than what’s required to plug the wells, leaving states or the federal government with hefty bills.  At the end of June, Texas reported 7,268 orphaned wells, up 17% since 2019. An additional 146,859 were considered “inactive”: They were no longer producing oil, but the owners hadn’t yet been required to plug them. Many inactive wells may actually be orphaned wells, said David Wieland, regional organizer with the Western Organization of Resource Councils, a network of grassroots groups focused on land stewardship. Some producers will let a well sit idle for a year or two, he said, and then produce just enough oil to avoid being required to plug it.  “That sort of hidden inventory is likely true in almost any state,” Wieland said.  Some states, like Texas, use fees collected from the oil and gas industry for cleanups. In 2018 alone, oil-producing states spent $45 million plugging orphaned wells and $7.9 million restoring surrounding land, according to the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission.  An oil well worker helps to re-plug an abandoned well on the ranch of Ashley Williams Watt. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)  ___  CLEANING UP THE MESS  As the financial and environmental tolls of abandoned wells grow, policy makers are searching for solutions. In his initial infrastructure proposal, Biden suggested spending $16 billion to put people to work plugging old oil and gas wells and coal mines. Yet even that wouldn’t be nearly enough to solve the problem.  Raimi, of Resources for the Future, estimates that a federal program to plug 62,000 wells over a decade could create 15,000 to 33,000 year-long jobs. At a per-well cost of $76,000, it would take roughly $160 billion to plug all the wells and reclaim the surrounding land, whether it's companies or governments who pay the price.  Wyoming and North Dakota channeled millions of dollars in federal coronavirus relief funds into employing workers to plug abandoned oil and gas wells over the past year.  Watt’s family never owned the mineral rights to the land and thus never profited from these wells, many of which were drilled in the 1950s and were plugged in the four decades that followed.  In this photo provided by rancher Ashley Williams Watt, the Estes 24 well leaks on the Antina ranch near Crane, Texas. (Ashley Williams Watt via AP)  She isn't looking for a drawn-out legal battle with Chevron or any other oil company with wells on her land. She simply wants assurance that the water is safe for her cattle, and the people in her life, to drink. She wants the land to be restored. And she doesn’t know if that’s possible.  “I do not want to sue," Watt said. “All I want is everything cleaned up.”  Why it's so hard and expensive to plug an abandoned well

    continues....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    Good grief!  Even Hawaii is burning!
    ‘A perfect storm’: Hawaii firefighters confront Big Island’s largest wildfire in history
    As immediate danger recedes, blaze serves as a warning of what’s to come amid worsening climate crisis
    Firefighters on Hawaii’s Big Island in recent days battled the biggest brush fire that has ever burned on the island, wrangling a blaze that has torched more than 62 sq miles (160 sq km) and destroyed two homes.

    The dangers posed by the fire receded on Tuesday, allowing for evacuation orders that had forced thousands to leave their homes to be lifted.

    Mike Walker, the state fire protection forester for the department of land and natural resources, said the total area burned could end up being the most the state has ever seen.

    “It is pretty significant,” he said, adding that sustained 30mph winds with gusts of up to 50mph drove the fire roughly 100 acres an hour through Saturday and Sunday. Airborne crews observed walls of flame that shot and spiraled 200ft into the air atop the blaze, which was fueled by the desiccated landscape. “It was a perfect storm of drought conditions,” Walker said.

    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,413

    Wildfires projected to increase in size and frequency, raising health risk for Canadians


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/wildfires-projected-to-increase-in-size-and-frequency-raising-health-risk-for-canadians-1.5535598?cid=sm%3Atrueanthem%3A%7B%7Bcampaignname%7D%7D%3Atwitterpost%E2%80%8B&taid=610c121543b80f000127d8f7&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    We have a useless carbon tax in Canada and you’d think the federal government would invest in healthcare…but nooooo.  Instead they give rebates and dump money into private business.   It’s a complete joke.  No way I’d live in BC…beautiful provinces but not going to be very enjoyable getting lung disease at a far to young an age…

    There is no turning back.  Better invest in health…
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    I often feel a little guilty posting here because the news too often is a downer.  But my hope is that we can see things for what they are and focus on making some changes and try to turn things around (that "doing what makes sense" thing.)
    Here's what's going on today:

    Due to all the fires, the air quality is really bad here today. There is fine ash all over my car and the air is so bad we will have to cancel our daily walk which is really depressing- walking is my best anti-depressant. Looking at purpleair.com I'm seeing right now our area ranges from 227 here at home to 313 in town. A little higher up it's close to 500 and an hour north of here there are several reading over 600. The top (most pollution) on the normal scale is 500.
    And It's overwhelming to keep hearing about other parts of the word with massive fires: here in the west, of course, B.C. Canada, Hawaii, Greece, Siberia, Turkey, etc.
    It's seeming less and less an exaggeration to say "it feels like the whole world is burning". This CNN article talks about that and points out what is probably the obvious- the fires and climate change are in a viscous cycle:
    Wildfires have erupted across the globe, scorching places that have never burned before - CNN


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,413

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104


    :lol:
    Oh, if only it were so easy!

    Some friends of ours recently got an electric car, a Hyundai Kona.  I was a bit shocked when they said it cast a little over $42,000.  Whoa!  It does have some extra bells and whistles but still, I wonder how many people are going to be able to afford to change over to electric when are no other choices nay more?

    And how much will these electric cars actually help?  Honest question.  I have concerns.  Is all this electricity needed to charge million upon millions of electric cars going to come from clean energy sources?  What about all the mining for rare earths minerals that are used in the batteries?  Will the electric car actually reduce global warming?  I have to ask!


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,747
    How does charging it work out when power and electricity are to be conserved?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,477
    How can you not read an article with this title? And it ended up being a pretty interesting one, too.

    ‘People think you’re an idiot’: death metal Irish baron rewilds his estate

    Lord Randal Plunkett strides through the hip-high grass of Dunsany, a 650-hectare (1,600-acre) estate in the middle of Ireland, trailed by an invisible swarm of midges and his four jack russell terriers: Tiny, Lumpy, Chow and Beavis & Butt-Head.

    The cattle and sheep are long gone, so too are the lawns and many of the crops. In their place is a riot of shrubs, flowers and trees, along with insects and creatures that call this fledgling wilderness their home.

    It is probably Ireland’s most ambitious attempt at rewilding on private land, an attempt to recreate a vanished landscape in a swath of County Meath, 20 miles north-west of Dublin.

    According to the UN, the world needs to rewild and restore an area the size of China to meet commitments on nature and the climate – but not everyone applauds Ireland’s pioneering effort. “You’d be surprised when you live in a castle how many times people think you’re an idiot,” says Plunkett, the 21st baron of Dunsany.

    The 38-year-old, who was once a steak-eating bodybuilding death metal fan with no interest in land, is now vegan and on an environmental mission.

    He still loves death metal, and sports a ponytail and (fake) leather jacket, but he decided seven years ago to turn over 300 hectares of his estate to nature – no livestock, planting, sowing or weeding.

    Some people considered it disgraceful neglect of an estate associated with agricultural innovation, he said. “They just thought I was a complete waster. Decadent, a fool. One farmer said I should be ashamed of myself for destroying the farm.”

    Plunkett says vindication has come in multiple forms. Before, the estate had just three types of grass, now it has 23. “I didn’t do it, the birds did.” Trees regenerated and multiplied – oak, ash, beech, Scots pine and black poplar. “I see a lot of saplings growing that I haven’t planted.”

    Lush, diverse vegetation attracted butterflies and other insects – “it’s like a buffet for them” – which drew more birds, including rarely seen woodpeckers, barn owls, red kites and sparrowhawks.

    article continues at link


    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/07/people-think-youre-an-idiot-death-metal-irish-baron-rewilds-his-estate
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    How can you not read an article with this title? And it ended up being a pretty interesting one, too.

    ‘People think you’re an idiot’: death metal Irish baron rewilds his estate

    Lord Randal Plunkett strides through the hip-high grass of Dunsany, a 650-hectare (1,600-acre) estate in the middle of Ireland, trailed by an invisible swarm of midges and his four jack russell terriers: Tiny, Lumpy, Chow and Beavis & Butt-Head.

    The cattle and sheep are long gone, so too are the lawns and many of the crops. In their place is a riot of shrubs, flowers and trees, along with insects and creatures that call this fledgling wilderness their home.

    It is probably Ireland’s most ambitious attempt at rewilding on private land, an attempt to recreate a vanished landscape in a swath of County Meath, 20 miles north-west of Dublin.

    According to the UN, the world needs to rewild and restore an area the size of China to meet commitments on nature and the climate – but not everyone applauds Ireland’s pioneering effort. “You’d be surprised when you live in a castle how many times people think you’re an idiot,” says Plunkett, the 21st baron of Dunsany.

    The 38-year-old, who was once a steak-eating bodybuilding death metal fan with no interest in land, is now vegan and on an environmental mission.

    He still loves death metal, and sports a ponytail and (fake) leather jacket, but he decided seven years ago to turn over 300 hectares of his estate to nature – no livestock, planting, sowing or weeding.

    Some people considered it disgraceful neglect of an estate associated with agricultural innovation, he said. “They just thought I was a complete waster. Decadent, a fool. One farmer said I should be ashamed of myself for destroying the farm.”

    Plunkett says vindication has come in multiple forms. Before, the estate had just three types of grass, now it has 23. “I didn’t do it, the birds did.” Trees regenerated and multiplied – oak, ash, beech, Scots pine and black poplar. “I see a lot of saplings growing that I haven’t planted.”

    Lush, diverse vegetation attracted butterflies and other insects – “it’s like a buffet for them” – which drew more birds, including rarely seen woodpeckers, barn owls, red kites and sparrowhawks.

    article continues at link


    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/07/people-think-youre-an-idiot-death-metal-irish-baron-rewilds-his-estate

    Awesome!
    I have long had this unattainable dream (unless I win the lottery or something) of having a large plot of land to re-wild.  I would so LOVE to do that!  Good on Lord Plunkett!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,413
    brianlux said:


    :lol:
    Oh, if only it were so easy!

    Some friends of ours recently got an electric car, a Hyundai Kona.  I was a bit shocked when they said it cast a little over $42,000.  Whoa!  It does have some extra bells and whistles but still, I wonder how many people are going to be able to afford to change over to electric when are no other choices nay more?

    And how much will these electric cars actually help?  Honest question.  I have concerns.  Is all this electricity needed to charge million upon millions of electric cars going to come from clean energy sources?  What about all the mining for rare earths minerals that are used in the batteries?  Will the electric car actually reduce global warming?  I have to ask!


    I’ve maintained that electric cars will always be a small percentage of the market…just to expensive.  Banning the sale of ICE vehicles are just a pie in the sky idea dreamed up by activist politicians.  In Canada idiot PM thinks he can ban ICE by 2035…lmfao…more and more people will just invest their money in fixing up and restoring ICE vehicles.

    Then there is this little problem of recharging them while on the go…I’ve driven out west through norther Ontario…you can go long stretches between gas stations.  

    My father worked 35 years for Ontario hydro…he doubts the grid could handle mass amounts of vehicles needing recharged every night.  

    I’m more excited for the hydrogen fuel cell.  And Toyota is focused on that more than electric.  I’d like to see where that goes.

    But at the end of the day every single thing we do as humans impact the environment…and until people wake up and realize there are just way too many of us.  Obviously it’s hard to control the population, but our government can be smarter about immigration.


    We can’t even figure out how to recycle?  So personally I think we are past the point of no return…

    All we can do is prepare, maybe watch Waterworld to get some tips on living on water…hehehe.

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,104
    brianlux said:


    :lol:
    Oh, if only it were so easy!

    Some friends of ours recently got an electric car, a Hyundai Kona.  I was a bit shocked when they said it cast a little over $42,000.  Whoa!  It does have some extra bells and whistles but still, I wonder how many people are going to be able to afford to change over to electric when are no other choices nay more?

    And how much will these electric cars actually help?  Honest question.  I have concerns.  Is all this electricity needed to charge million upon millions of electric cars going to come from clean energy sources?  What about all the mining for rare earths minerals that are used in the batteries?  Will the electric car actually reduce global warming?  I have to ask!


    I’ve maintained that electric cars will always be a small percentage of the market…just to expensive.  Banning the sale of ICE vehicles are just a pie in the sky idea dreamed up by activist politicians.  In Canada idiot PM thinks he can ban ICE by 2035…lmfao…more and more people will just invest their money in fixing up and restoring ICE vehicles.

    Then there is this little problem of recharging them while on the go…I’ve driven out west through norther Ontario…you can go long stretches between gas stations.  

    My father worked 35 years for Ontario hydro…he doubts the grid could handle mass amounts of vehicles needing recharged every night.  

    I’m more excited for the hydrogen fuel cell.  And Toyota is focused on that more than electric.  I’d like to see where that goes.

    But at the end of the day every single thing we do as humans impact the environment…and until people wake up and realize there are just way too many of us.  Obviously it’s hard to control the population, but our government can be smarter about immigration.


    We can’t even figure out how to recycle?  So personally I think we are past the point of no return…

    All we can do is prepare, maybe watch Waterworld to get some tips on living on water…hehehe.


    This all makes sense to me (and thanks for the info). 

    There are something like 275 million cars in the U.S. alone.  Imagine the power grid trying to handle all that!  And where does all that power come from?  Cover the deserts with solar panels... which are mostly plastic, which is oil... and they only last about, what?, 15 years?

    Car crazy America, is how one author puts it.  There's just no way it's gonna happen.  Even hydrogen fuel cell cars.  275 million cars in the U.S.  Add another 25 million cars in Canada and 50 million in Mexico.  Now were up to 350 million cars in North America alone, and those figure are from 2019 so probably closer to 375 or 400 million vehicles.  And what about all those private and commercial planes and motor boats and jet skies and lawn mowers and holy fuck knows what else uses gas and/ or electricty.  Where does all the stuff come from to make these things?  All the metal and plastic?  All the heavy metals and rare earths for computers and batteries?  Mines where all the trees have been stripped! 

    Car crazy world is... well... crazy!

    Too many people?  Yep!  Bingo again, man, you got it.  When will we start talking about that?  No one seems to want to talk about that!

    Oh, and Waterword.  That movie got panned but I liked it!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











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