D-Day at 75

13

Comments

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    mcgruff10 said:

    Even if Israel wasn't created I don't see that section of the world as an example of peace and love.  
    In what way is that even an argument..?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    mrussel1 said:
    WW2 vets are the most fascinating people to me.  Brave and humble.  

    In May i happened to be at the airport in NOLA (home of the National WW2 Museum).  That day about 100 or so WW2 vets were flown in for an event at the museum.  As they were wheeled/walked down the concourse it was mass applause from everyone in the airport.  Chills man!!!!  They are superheroes to me. 
    I mentioned this many moons ago but I think it's worth repeating.  My father died in 93.  He was a Korea vet.  Two of his brothers were still alive and were at the after funeral gathering.  Mike was Army, Battle of the Bulge and captured there by the Germans.  George was a marine and an island hopper.  The neighbor across the street was Polish resistance.  The three of them spent the entire afternoon arguing about who had it worse, recounting their experiences.  I wish I would have recorded it because it was utterly fascinating.  
    I think in order of having it worst I would go:
    George
    Polish resistance
    Mike
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    What if someone said:

    "Its a difficult problem with no easy solution. Yeah that cop just went in there and killed that black dude. But even if he hadn't, I don't see that community as a section of the city as an example of peace and love"
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    What if someone said:

    "Its a difficult problem with no easy solution. Yeah that cop just went in there and killed that black dude. But even if he hadn't, I don't see that community as a section of the city as an example of peace and love"
    Well no one did so it is a pretty dumb argument lol
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    mcgruff10 said:
    What if someone said:

    "Its a difficult problem with no easy solution. Yeah that cop just went in there and killed that black dude. But even if he hadn't, I don't see that community as a section of the city as an example of peace and love"
    Well no one did so it is a pretty dumb argument lol
    It's not an argument in itself. It is putting your comment into another context to shine a light on how weird your argument is.

    "People there are having problems - so fuck them and what they think" seems to be the spirit of your argument. And I don't even understand how someone would come up with an argument like that.

    Where is that even coming from...
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,311
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • JPPJ84JPPJ84 Hamburg, Germany Posts: 1,025
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.



  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    They did lose a lot of land. They had like large parts of Europe. :P

    Saying they should lose their "original" land and borders because there was a war - sounds to me like when Trump says they should have taken all of IRAQs oil as spoils of war. Or whatever he said. That just happend to be counted as a war crime.

    What has the "land" to do with anything. Is that some prerequisite for war I've missed? What has the world lost with Germany keeping its borders? It's like one of the top countries in the world - as an economy and a humanitarian force.

    I don't understand why jews should suddenly get "land" when no land to my knowledge was taken from then in that war.

    - I'm sorry Johnny I shouted at you. I was stressed this morning and you weren't eating your serial and we were late to school.
    - I DEMAND LAND MOM! YOU DID ME WRONG. GIVE ME TWO SQUARE FEET OF LAND.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    By the way, a few years back:

    Sweden officially recognises state of Palestine

    Sweden becomes first EU member in western Europe to make move, saying ‘we hope this will show the way for others’

    /.../

    Seven EU member states have already recognised a Palestinian state – Bulgaria, Cyprus, Slovakia, Hungary, Malta, Poland and Romania. Non-EU member Iceland is the only other western European nation to have done so.


    And sad to say:

    The US cautioned Sweden against recognition, calling it “premature” and saying the Palestinian state could only come through a negotiated solution between Israelis and Palestinians.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    mcgruff10 said:
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    So, if they would have wanted California or New York - should they have gotten that as its homeland?

    Or is it only ok to push arabic/african people away because they don't know how to keep peace anyway?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,281
    mcgruff10 said:
    What if someone said:

    "Its a difficult problem with no easy solution. Yeah that cop just went in there and killed that black dude. But even if he hadn't, I don't see that community as a section of the city as an example of peace and love"
    Well no one did so it is a pretty dumb argument lol
    It's not an argument in itself. It is putting your comment into another context to shine a light on how weird your argument is.

    "People there are having problems - so fuck them and what they think" seems to be the spirit of your argument. And I don't even understand how someone would come up with an argument like that.

    Where is that even coming from...
    These are your hang ups, not his.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What if someone said:

    "Its a difficult problem with no easy solution. Yeah that cop just went in there and killed that black dude. But even if he hadn't, I don't see that community as a section of the city as an example of peace and love"
    Well no one did so it is a pretty dumb argument lol
    It's not an argument in itself. It is putting your comment into another context to shine a light on how weird your argument is.

    "People there are having problems - so fuck them and what they think" seems to be the spirit of your argument. And I don't even understand how someone would come up with an argument like that.

    Where is that even coming from...
    These are your hang ups, not his.  
    Wouldn't call it a hang up. But sure. 

    Wouldn't make sense to be his.

    I still don't get where the idea of the people living there doesn't matter because they don't know how to keep peace anyway-- and that is okey to not get on a message board.

    To me it comes off as written as imperialistic/xenophobic. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    mcgruff10 said:
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    So, if they would have wanted California or New York - should they have gotten that as its homeland?

    Or is it only ok to push arabic/african people away because they don't know how to keep peace anyway?
    Well California and New York weren't their so called homeland, Israel was.  I"m assuming you are against the Jewish state of Israel so what would have been your solution?  Hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors wanted to leave Europe, how on earth could anyone have convinced them to stay especially after what they endured as a people under Nazi rule? There obviously have been dozens of problems since 1948 but I'm not sure what the solution would have been.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    So, if they would have wanted California or New York - should they have gotten that as its homeland?

    Or is it only ok to push arabic/african people away because they don't know how to keep peace anyway?
    Well California and New York weren't their so called homeland, Israel was.  I"m assuming you are against the Jewish state of Israel so what would have been your solution?  Hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors wanted to leave Europe, how on earth could anyone have convinced them to stay especially after what they endured as a people under Nazi rule? There obviously have been dozens of problems since 1948 but I'm not sure what the solution would have been.  
    One solution - would be to not give them land because no land was taken from them in the war. If they would have wanted to leave Europe, they would still have been free to do so.

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    I'm gonna put on one of the movies suggested now. Thank you. I think I rewatch the Sean Connery one. Haha.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    So, if they would have wanted California or New York - should they have gotten that as its homeland?

    Or is it only ok to push arabic/african people away because they don't know how to keep peace anyway?
    Well California and New York weren't their so called homeland, Israel was.  I"m assuming you are against the Jewish state of Israel so what would have been your solution?  Hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors wanted to leave Europe, how on earth could anyone have convinced them to stay especially after what they endured as a people under Nazi rule? There obviously have been dozens of problems since 1948 but I'm not sure what the solution would have been.  
    One solution - would be to not give them land because no land was taken from them in the war. If they would have wanted to leave Europe, they would still have been free to do so.

    Maybe not actual land since they weren't a country but their homes, possessions, identify, friends, relatives, places of worship, businesses, etc., all were taken from them.  Again, I think they deserved it.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Jewish people do not have the right to live where they choose, just because bad shit happened to them...in my opinion, they should have been given part of Germany, and all German technology available at the time.  How does Germany get away with starting the worst war in human history and not lose land...that part was BS...even if the Allies took a hunk of land and set up the UN there, would have been nice.


    I think if there was no Cold War then they would have lost land however that wasn’t the case.  
    My opinion is that the Jewish people deserved Israel after being hunted 24 hours a day seven days a week for six years.  2/3 were murdered by the nazis so there is no way they were staying in Europe. 
    So, if they would have wanted California or New York - should they have gotten that as its homeland?

    Or is it only ok to push arabic/african people away because they don't know how to keep peace anyway?
    Well California and New York weren't their so called homeland, Israel was.  I"m assuming you are against the Jewish state of Israel so what would have been your solution?  Hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors wanted to leave Europe, how on earth could anyone have convinced them to stay especially after what they endured as a people under Nazi rule? There obviously have been dozens of problems since 1948 but I'm not sure what the solution would have been.  
    One solution - would be to not give them land because no land was taken from them in the war. If they would have wanted to leave Europe, they would still have been free to do so.

    Maybe not actual land since they weren't a country but their homes, possessions, identify, friends, relatives, places of worship, businesses, etc., all were taken from them.  Again, I think they deserved it.  
    Happens to people in every war. I don't know why their homes would be gone though? Where they? And what has things being taken away from them with getting land..? Don't see the obvious connection.

    Would you support the Native population of your country if they were to declare the US their homeland - the state of "Stands with a fist" - and wanted you out there? For everything they have had to endure?
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,783
    edited June 5
    But well oh well, off to find the film now.

    Brave people. 80% of all paratroopers in the first wave or something like that. died. Fucking slaughter.

    Human beings.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 5,587
    Watching the D-Day episode of Band of Brothers tonight
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    @mrussel1   My grandfathers canteen cover that I found twenty years after he passed.  Shows exactly where he was from training to VE Day. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,449
    @mrussel1 some war “souvenirs” he brought back. Luftwaffe belt buckle, insignia from a German cap, k98 bayonet. There was a lot more but my grandmother threw them out.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,699
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mrussel1   My grandfathers canteen cover that I found twenty years after he passed.  Shows exactly where he was from training to VE Day. 

    Wow, Mike! That is a treasure. 
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,281
    McGruff, that's so great. Thanks for sharing. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,281
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    WW2 vets are the most fascinating people to me.  Brave and humble.  

    In May i happened to be at the airport in NOLA (home of the National WW2 Museum).  That day about 100 or so WW2 vets were flown in for an event at the museum.  As they were wheeled/walked down the concourse it was mass applause from everyone in the airport.  Chills man!!!!  They are superheroes to me. 
    I mentioned this many moons ago but I think it's worth repeating.  My father died in 93.  He was a Korea vet.  Two of his brothers were still alive and were at the after funeral gathering.  Mike was Army, Battle of the Bulge and captured there by the Germans.  George was a marine and an island hopper.  The neighbor across the street was Polish resistance.  The three of them spent the entire afternoon arguing about who had it worse, recounting their experiences.  I wish I would have recorded it because it was utterly fascinating.  
    I think in order of having it worst I would go:
    George
    Polish resistance
    Mike
    I think that's right,  although my Uncle Mike nearly froze to death in the stalag.  As the end drew near,  the Germans took their boots,  gloves,  socks,  etc. Then they abandoned the prisoners.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,281
    hedonist said:
    My dad left Germany in 1938 and served in WWII after receiving American citizenship and a college education.  Most of his family who stayed behind were killed (he was fortunate to somehow re-unite with his father for a brief period before my grandfather's passing).  He fought as a fucking kid in North Africa and the Battle of Salerno.  By the grace of I don't know what, he not only survived, but relished life and goodwill with gratitude until he died.  No airs about him.

    A fine, loving and funny man whom I'm lucky to have known, let alone have as a father.

    While he didn't receive reparations, his wife did - but that's another story.

    When I visited my fatherland years ago, there wasn't talk at all about the war...almost as if on purpose.  Granted, I also wasn't looking for it...although there were bars that outright made fun of Hitler and his henchmen.  Gave me a chuckle.
    Did your dad fight for the Germans or Americans? I wasn't clear from the post and comments on reparations. 
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,555
    edited June 6
    This is a great 5 minute video about how incredible D-Day was and how it all went down, an All or Nothing mission super risky and the consequences if it had failed.
    Very humbling and sobering.


    Post edited by RYME on
  • ponytdponytd NashvillePosts: 559
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mrussel1   My grandfathers canteen cover that I found twenty years after he passed.  Shows exactly where he was from training to VE Day. 

    Wow, that is pretty awesome.

    My mom's dad never really talked about it. He was only ever in England and there during the bombing in London, but like a lot of them, he would never talk. My dad's dad died the year I was born and had left the family about 15 years before, so hearing stories and seeing things like this from others fascinates me
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,735
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,311

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