** HOCKEY WORLD CUP 2019 **

2

Comments

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    cutz said:
    MayDay10 said:
    I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

    But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

    You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  
    I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

    I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

    However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.
    I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.
    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,070
    edited May 22


    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
    I don't know about that. I'm sure the NHL forwards would love to have less hitting and more goal scoring but the size of NHL rinks doesn't allow that. If Europeans didn't play on Olympic size rinks, the style of play would naturally be more like the NHL.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    eddiec said:


    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
    I don't know about that. I'm sure the NHL forwards would love to have less hitting and more goal scoring but the size of NHL rinks doesn't allow that. If Europeans didn't play on Olympic size rinks, the style of play would naturally be more like the NHL.
    The large European Ice makes for a boring game.  I watched the US v Canada game yesterday...it looked like a carbon copy of when Canada defeated Sweden in 2014 at Sopchi...they just systematically shut down the US and waited for opportunities...that's not hockey, but that's how you win on the big ice...you need a system...the system Canada has employed this year is the same system team Canada used under Babcock at the last 2 Olympics.

    I truly believe the Canadian players in the NHL thrive off the physical game.  Most of them have grown up with the rough stuff, the CHL and AHL where many hone their skill before the NHL is not short on the physical aspects of the game, most European's shy away from it...one of the reasons I like Ovechkin, he plays the body and will drop his gloves...
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,186
    That is with collections of top players though.  I wonder what would happen on the bigger ice when you have larger mismatches, such as Matthews and Marner exploiting someone's 3rd pairing D. 

    And the "physical game" aspect is kind of in the past.  The CHL is a shadow of what it was by way of that (although miles better than NCAA or USHL).  Back, as recently as the early 2000s, CHL games were often bloodbaths.  They really cleaned it up a great deal.  The physicality we know and love is being legislated out of the game.  A guy gets hit hard, and odds are, someone is sitting out and losing salary.  Plus the concussion thing has players spooked and millions of dollars are on the line.

    People wax poetic about the Olympics with pros.... but honestly, most of them have been duds, save the Vancouver tournament and maybe the 1st one in Nagano when Hasek went god-mode and stole it.  Salt Lake in 2002 was pretty decent as well... but I think I look at it more fondly because it was kind of a send-off of a lot of 80s and 90s players from my childhood.

  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Like I said it's nice to talk about, but I do not see it happening...the logistics do not work.  Physicality is not being legislated out of hockey, Bettman made that clear when he said the NHL will not ban heads shots for fear it would reduce physical contact, in which he also said the fans love the physicality of the game.  

    As for the Olympics, that is how you play on the big ice.  Mike Babcock, who I think is pretty close to the best international coach Canada has had, stated as much, international hockey is not generally all that exciting...

    Anyways I have no interest in the NHL expanding outside Canada and the States...

    I have been to plenty of CHL games and fighting and rough stuff is still a big part of their game.  Of course, it has calmed down a little, just like the NHL of the '70s is not the same as today in terms of fighting, cheap shots and physical contact.

    I can almost guarantee if the instigator rule got lifted the fighting would return as it used to...

    I also think the instigator rule has played a role in decreased scoring.





  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,186
    edited May 23
    What CHL?  

    I go maybe 10 times a year and there is almost no fighting. It is rare. Back in the mid-late-90s, there used to be all out brawls where the refs would just sit back and take notes.  They resemble NHL games now.

    It isn't just the instigator rule.  There are others.  You cant fight without a helmet on.  Everyone (in the NHL) is now required to have a face shield.  In the OHL if you get 3! fights in a season, you are suspended for 3 games, and disciplined for every fight thereafter.  It previously was 10, which the QMJHL has implemented.  
    Some teams have less than 10 fights in an entire season now.  The leader in the OHL this season had 7 fighting majors.

    I just looked up a quick stat in the WHL.  In 1997-98, there were 1.98 fights per game.  This season, there were 0.38.  That isn't 'calmed down a little'.  The CHL, especially OHL has been at the forefront in getting rid of fighting.  It is critically low in the NHL too.  The Leafs and Vegas had 6 fighting majors apiece all season.  Buffalo had 12.  There were 0.19 fights per game this season.  That is HALF what there was just in 2013-2014.

    Sorry, its gone, and past the point of ever coming back (unless they invent a pill you can take to fully prevent/cure concussions and CTS).  This is coming from someone who loved it and owns volumes of hockey fight tapes and still watch fights on youtube.  I would trade nearly anything if we could wave a magic wand and all of hockey could be restored to 80s-90s.

    They cannot roll back rules and 'encourage' fighting, while at the same time defend themselves from Concussion-related litigation in the present and future.  I also don't believe players are particularly eager to pile up fights, especially when there is that many $$$ at stake. I listen to Rob Ray and Andrew Peters on the radio all the time, and it sounds like they don't look back too fondly on their need to fight and it was pretty nerve-wracking.


    Physical play will never be gone, as it is built into the sport.  Huge hits though, especially open-ice are being legislated out.  Whenever there is a big hit and someone gets hurt (which seems like every time), fans and media get all up in arms and the "head of player safety" needs to get involved.  Then you watch their silly video in super-slo-mo and they justify a 'charging' catch all (when the play happened in a split second), if you dont see the player's head bounce off the player somewhere which is labeled "contact with the head".


    I think we agree on a lot of things in preference, but you just seem in a bit of denial where we are and where its going (I wish I was).  


    * and for the NHL/International thing, I'm just thinking 20 years down the line and a possible natural possible progression of things
    Post edited by MayDay10 on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Canada ties the game with .4 seconds left and it took those idiots in the review almost 5 minutes to make a decision.  That's another problem with having a European league...the officiating and official in international hockey has no business over seeing pros...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    1/2 a second away from elimination, Canada ties the game...Mark Stone wins the farce for Canada...

    Omly the IIHF decides playoff games with 3 on 3 and shootouts...lol...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    The Americans at least gave the Russians a run for their money...


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    MayDay10 said:
    What CHL?  

    I go maybe 10 times a year and there is almost no fighting. It is rare. Back in the mid-late-90s, there used to be all out brawls where the refs would just sit back and take notes.  They resemble NHL games now.

    It isn't just the instigator rule.  There are others.  You cant fight without a helmet on.  Everyone (in the NHL) is now required to have a face shield.  In the OHL if you get 3! fights in a season, you are suspended for 3 games, and disciplined for every fight thereafter.  It previously was 10, which the QMJHL has implemented.  
    Some teams have less than 10 fights in an entire season now.  The leader in the OHL this season had 7 fighting majors.

    I just looked up a quick stat in the WHL.  In 1997-98, there were 1.98 fights per game.  This season, there were 0.38.  That isn't 'calmed down a little'.  The CHL, especially OHL has been at the forefront in getting rid of fighting.  It is critically low in the NHL too.  The Leafs and Vegas had 6 fighting majors apiece all season.  Buffalo had 12.  There were 0.19 fights per game this season.  That is HALF what there was just in 2013-2014.

    Sorry, its gone, and past the point of ever coming back (unless they invent a pill you can take to fully prevent/cure concussions and CTS).  This is coming from someone who loved it and owns volumes of hockey fight tapes and still watch fights on youtube.  I would trade nearly anything if we could wave a magic wand and all of hockey could be restored to 80s-90s.

    They cannot roll back rules and 'encourage' fighting, while at the same time defend themselves from Concussion-related litigation in the present and future.  I also don't believe players are particularly eager to pile up fights, especially when there is that many $$$ at stake. I listen to Rob Ray and Andrew Peters on the radio all the time, and it sounds like they don't look back too fondly on their need to fight and it was pretty nerve-wracking.


    Physical play will never be gone, as it is built into the sport.  Huge hits though, especially open-ice are being legislated out.  Whenever there is a big hit and someone gets hurt (which seems like every time), fans and media get all up in arms and the "head of player safety" needs to get involved.  Then you watch their silly video in super-slo-mo and they justify a 'charging' catch all (when the play happened in a split second), if you dont see the player's head bounce off the player somewhere which is labeled "contact with the head".


    I think we agree on a lot of things in preference, but you just seem in a bit of denial where we are and where its going (I wish I was).  


    * and for the NHL/International thing, I'm just thinking 20 years down the line and a possible natural possible progression of things
    If you say so.  Have a nice day. 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    No Swedish three peat...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Holy Fuck...how did Austria not make the semi-finals...well I can kiss that $2 bet goodbye...lol
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,580
    The Czech Republic
    Holy Fuck...how did Austria not make the semi-finals...well I can kiss that $2 bet goodbye...lol
    Is the Czech Republic still in it?
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Holy Fuck...how did Austria not make the semi-finals...well I can kiss that $2 bet goodbye...lol
    Is the Czech Republic still in it?
    They play Canada at 1:15.  The Finish team upset Russia.
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,186
    Finland's hockey program is advancing at a crazy rate
  • BLACK35BLACK35 Hanover, Ontario Posts: 21,162
    Canada
    Going to be a long day having some drinks. Canada is on soon and then we have Raptors tonight. Going to be a great sports day. Go Team Canada and lets get this day started right!!!!
    2005 - London
    2009 - Toronto
    2010 - Buffalo
    2011 - Toronto 1&2
    2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
    2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
    2018 - Fenway 1&2
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    BLACK35 said:
    Going to be a long day having some drinks. Canada is on soon and then we have Raptors tonight. Going to be a great sports day. Go Team Canada and lets get this day started right!!!!
    Go Raptors...need to win tonight.

    Canada up 1-0...but Murray has been excellent.
  • BLACK35BLACK35 Hanover, Ontario Posts: 21,162
    Canada
    Canada just dominated today, Murray played real strong. One of those boxes now checked ✔
    2005 - London
    2009 - Toronto
    2010 - Buffalo
    2011 - Toronto 1&2
    2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
    2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
    2018 - Fenway 1&2
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,580
    The Czech Republic
    Well fuuuuck!
    Have fun watching the Raptors fellas! :joy:
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Canada played well.  I did not think they stood a chance in this tournament...as usual Canada always brings heart...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    Canada v Finland in the finals.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 8,497
    That Finland-Russia game was really good. How big of a upset was that? I don't follow the NHL like i use to , but i even knew quite a few Russian players, but no Finns.

    I know in one game anything can happen, but i'd be surprised if Canada doesn't win.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 8,497
    edited May 27
    WOW!!

    I'm surprised that Finland won the World Championships. IMPRESSIVE that they went through Sweden, Russia & Canada to win the Gold.

    Canada out shot Finland 21-3 in the 3rd & Finland scored twice!!
    Post edited by cutz on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    cutz said:
    WOW!!

    I'm surprised that Finland won the World Championships. IMPRESSIVE that they went through Sweden, Russia & Canada to win the Gold.

    Canada out shot Finland 21-3 in the 3rd & Finland scored twice!!
    It's not really a surprise.  This tournament is a crap shoot.  I sure would never base my opinion on how good a country's hockey program is based on this tournament...

    Unreal, but that is what you get with Murray, a good game followed by an inconsistent game.

    I think Boston or St. Louis could have won that tournament...

    On to real hockey and The Stanley Cup finals.

    Still devasted Austria did not win...they need a public enquiry.

  • cutzcutz Posts: 8,497
    cutz said:
    WOW!!

    I'm surprised that Finland won the World Championships. IMPRESSIVE that they went through Sweden, Russia & Canada to win the Gold.

    Canada out shot Finland 21-3 in the 3rd & Finland scored twice!!
    It's not really a surprise.  This tournament is a crap shoot.  I sure would never base my opinion on how good a country's hockey program is based on this tournament...

    Unreal, but that is what you get with Murray, a good game followed by an inconsistent game.

    I think Boston or St. Louis could have won that tournament...

    On to real hockey and The Stanley Cup finals.

    Still devasted Austria did not win...they need a public enquiry.

    HAHA(Austria)

    Yeah, like i posted above, anything can happen in a one game Tourney.

    But still, it was a surprise  to me, that Finland beat Canada when you consider the Finns had no player who scored a goal in the NHL & Canada had what? over 200?300? goals from their players.

    Not sure any of those goals were Murray's fault, but he would've had to shut-out the Finns for Canada to win the game.

    Maybe the next time Austria will win it all?>LOL
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,864
    cutz said:
    MayDay10 said:
    I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

    But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

    You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  
    I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

    I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

    However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.
    I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.
    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
    Having people beating up eachother on the ice as part of the game NHL-style is cringey as fuck.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,864
    cutz said:
    WOW!!

    I'm surprised that Finland won the World Championships. IMPRESSIVE that they went through Sweden, Russia & Canada to win the Gold.

    Canada out shot Finland 21-3 in the 3rd & Finland scored twice!!
    Yep.

    Congrats to Finland!
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    cutz said:
    cutz said:
    WOW!!

    I'm surprised that Finland won the World Championships. IMPRESSIVE that they went through Sweden, Russia & Canada to win the Gold.

    Canada out shot Finland 21-3 in the 3rd & Finland scored twice!!
    It's not really a surprise.  This tournament is a crap shoot.  I sure would never base my opinion on how good a country's hockey program is based on this tournament...

    Unreal, but that is what you get with Murray, a good game followed by an inconsistent game.

    I think Boston or St. Louis could have won that tournament...

    On to real hockey and The Stanley Cup finals.

    Still devasted Austria did not win...they need a public enquiry.

    HAHA(Austria)

    Yeah, like i posted above, anything can happen in a one game Tourney.

    But still, it was a surprise  to me, that Finland beat Canada when you consider the Finns had no player who scored a goal in the NHL & Canada had what? over 200?300? goals from their players.

    Not sure any of those goals were Murray's fault, but he would've had to shut-out the Finns for Canada to win the game.

    Maybe the next time Austria will win it all?>LOL
    I never take that tournament seriously.  Canada went farther than I expected, and likely should have lost to the Swiss.  There was a time you could guarantee the best Canadians of players available...now not so much.  The players do not mind the grind of the Stanley Cup Playoffs because they are playing for the best hockey trophy in the world.  Now it looks like more players would rather take the time off and recharge for next season...The only way I will take international hockey serious is if the IIHF and NHL can agree on a tournament every 2-4 years.  But the IIHF wants the NHL in the Olympics...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,312
    Austria
    cutz said:
    MayDay10 said:
    I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

    But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

    You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  
    I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

    I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

    However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.
    I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.
    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
    Having people beating up eachother on the ice as part of the game NHL-style is cringey as fuck.
    No, it's not.  Canadians know how to play the game.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,864
    edited May 28
    cutz said:
    MayDay10 said:
    I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

    But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

    You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  
    I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

    I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

    However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.
    I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.
    I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  
    Having people beating up eachother on the ice as part of the game NHL-style is cringey as fuck.
    No, it's not.  Canadians know how to play the game.
    Yes it is.

    But I can see you not seeing it, being raised with it being a part. I understand that.

    But beating up eachother as part of the sport is dumb.

    And I say that as someone who played a lot of Blades of Steel growing up.


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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