** HOCKEY WORLD CUP 2019 **

Jason P

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Meltdown99

Austria

Jason P said:

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Not true.  At least 1 Swede cares...

dankind

Meltdown99 said:

Jason P said:

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Not true.  At least 1 Swede cares...

And every player who is giving it his all on the ice.

Jason P

dankind said:

Meltdown99 said:

Jason P said:

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Not true.  At least 1 Swede cares...

And every player who is giving it his all on the ice.

Same could be said for those playing in the cornhole world championship on The Ocho. 

i was more implying the coverage the sport gets in the olympics versus this which few even know is going on right now.  This might be closer to 0/10 to be honest. 

dankind

Jason P said:

dankind said:

Meltdown99 said:

Jason P said:

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Not true.  At least 1 Swede cares...

And every player who is giving it his all on the ice.

Same could be said for those playing in the cornhole world championship on The Ocho. 

i was more implying the coverage the sport gets in the olympics versus this which few even know is going on right now.  This might be closer to 0/10 to be honest. 

MayDay10

I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  

Meltdown99

Austria

Good luck USA against Russia Thursday...you will need a miracle on ice part 2

Meltdown99

Austria

dankind said:

Meltdown99 said:

Jason P said:

Winning the Olympic Gold is a 10/10.  Winning this tournament is a 1/10.  No one cares.  

Not true.  At least 1 Swede cares...

And every player who is giving it his all on the ice.

I did say at least one...so I left open the possibility others cared.

Meltdown99

Austria

MayDay10 said:

I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  

I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.

cutz

Meltdown99 said:

MayDay10 said:

I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  

I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.

I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.

Meltdown99

Austria

cutz said:

Meltdown99 said:

MayDay10 said:

I sometimes pontificate and wonder if there will ever be a unified European league.  The KHL sometimes looks like it is poised to jump up a bit, but I dont know.  A lot of bad people involved with that as well as some hideous travel across 100 time zones.  

But a major European league in the best markets could possibly provide some competitive salaries that could lure a bulk of the NHL's European players to stay in their own continent.  With how far the Swedish and Finnish programs have come, it could be someday be legitimately as good as the NHL, and perhaps the Stanley Cup could be the NHL winner vs the Eastern Hemisphere League winner, creating vested fans all over the world.  

You could also do the Soccer/futbol thing and have a on-season type of tournament that is gradually played throughout the year and even, perhaps, some inter-league play... and the tournament games may count in the standings.  

I doubt that would happen.  Hockey would be played until July if the NHL and some European team meet after to decide a world champion (i guess)...unless you are proposing replacing 1 of the teams in the finals come from a European league.  Anyways.  I think the logistics would never work.  Plus I am dead set against the Stanley Cup being awarded to a team based in Europe.

I am all for them starting a rival league that keeps more Euros at home...I'm all for that.  

However, most European players know the Stanley Cup is the only trophy that really matters, so they'd likely choose the NHL first.

I've always thought the Europeans really want to win the Olympics & World Championships.

I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  

eddiec

Meltdown99 said:

I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  

I don't know about that. I'm sure the NHL forwards would love to have less hitting and more goal scoring but the size of NHL rinks doesn't allow that. If Europeans didn't play on Olympic size rinks, the style of play would naturally be more like the NHL.

Meltdown99

Austria

eddiec said:

Meltdown99 said:

I've watched a few games of the  IIHF World Championships and if the Europeans prefer that over the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, then why?  And that brings up another problem of playing a championship against a European league winner, the rules and style of the game.  The NHL players, especially the NA players love the physical, hard-hitting style of play...Europeans not so much.  It's fun to discuss, I just do not think it logistically possible.  

I don't know about that. I'm sure the NHL forwards would love to have less hitting and more goal scoring but the size of NHL rinks doesn't allow that. If Europeans didn't play on Olympic size rinks, the style of play would naturally be more like the NHL.

The large European Ice makes for a boring game.  I watched the US v Canada game yesterday...it looked like a carbon copy of when Canada defeated Sweden in 2014 at Sopchi...they just systematically shut down the US and waited for opportunities...that's not hockey, but that's how you win on the big ice...you need a system...the system Canada has employed this year is the same system team Canada used under Babcock at the last 2 Olympics.

I truly believe the Canadian players in the NHL thrive off the physical game.  Most of them have grown up with the rough stuff, the CHL and AHL where many hone their skill before the NHL is not short on the physical aspects of the game, most European's shy away from it...one of the reasons I like Ovechkin, he plays the body and will drop his gloves...

MayDay10

That is with collections of top players though.  I wonder what would happen on the bigger ice when you have larger mismatches, such as Matthews and Marner exploiting someone's 3rd pairing D. 

And the "physical game" aspect is kind of in the past.  The CHL is a shadow of what it was by way of that (although miles better than NCAA or USHL).  Back, as recently as the early 2000s, CHL games were often bloodbaths.  They really cleaned it up a great deal.  The physicality we know and love is being legislated out of the game.  A guy gets hit hard, and odds are, someone is sitting out and losing salary.  Plus the concussion thing has players spooked and millions of dollars are on the line.

People wax poetic about the Olympics with pros.... but honestly, most of them have been duds, save the Vancouver tournament and maybe the 1st one in Nagano when Hasek went god-mode and stole it.  Salt Lake in 2002 was pretty decent as well... but I think I look at it more fondly because it was kind of a send-off of a lot of 80s and 90s players from my childhood.

Meltdown99

Austria

Like I said it's nice to talk about, but I do not see it happening...the logistics do not work.  Physicality is not being legislated out of hockey, Bettman made that clear when he said the NHL will not ban heads shots for fear it would reduce physical contact, in which he also said the fans love the physicality of the game.  

As for the Olympics, that is how you play on the big ice.  Mike Babcock, who I think is pretty close to the best international coach Canada has had, stated as much, international hockey is not generally all that exciting...

Anyways I have no interest in the NHL expanding outside Canada and the States...

I have been to plenty of CHL games and fighting and rough stuff is still a big part of their game.  Of course, it has calmed down a little, just like the NHL of the '70s is not the same as today in terms of fighting, cheap shots and physical contact.

I can almost guarantee if the instigator rule got lifted the fighting would return as it used to...

I also think the instigator rule has played a role in decreased scoring.

MayDay10

What CHL?  

I go maybe 10 times a year and there is almost no fighting. It is rare. Back in the mid-late-90s, there used to be all out brawls where the refs would just sit back and take notes.  They resemble NHL games now.

It isn't just the instigator rule.  There are others.  You cant fight without a helmet on.  Everyone (in the NHL) is now required to have a face shield.  In the OHL if you get 3! fights in a season, you are suspended for 3 games, and disciplined for every fight thereafter.  It previously was 10, which the QMJHL has implemented.  
Some teams have less than 10 fights in an entire season now.  The leader in the OHL this season had 7 fighting majors.

I just looked up a quick stat in the WHL.  In 1997-98, there were 1.98 fights per game.  This season, there were 0.38.  That isn't 'calmed down a little'.  The CHL, especially OHL has been at the forefront in getting rid of fighting.  It is critically low in the NHL too.  The Leafs and Vegas had 6 fighting majors apiece all season.  Buffalo had 12.  There were 0.19 fights per game this season.  That is HALF what there was just in 2013-2014.

Sorry, its gone, and past the point of ever coming back (unless they invent a pill you can take to fully prevent/cure concussions and CTS).  This is coming from someone who loved it and owns volumes of hockey fight tapes and still watch fights on youtube.  I would trade nearly anything if we could wave a magic wand and all of hockey could be restored to 80s-90s.

They cannot roll back rules and 'encourage' fighting, while at the same time defend themselves from Concussion-related litigation in the present and future.  I also don't believe players are particularly eager to pile up fights, especially when there is that many $$$ at stake. I listen to Rob Ray and Andrew Peters on the radio all the time, and it sounds like they don't look back too fondly on their need to fight and it was pretty nerve-wracking.


Physical play will never be gone, as it is built into the sport.  Huge hits though, especially open-ice are being legislated out.  Whenever there is a big hit and someone gets hurt (which seems like every time), fans and media get all up in arms and the "head of player safety" needs to get involved.  Then you watch their silly video in super-slo-mo and they justify a 'charging' catch all (when the play happened in a split second), if you dont see the player's head bounce off the player somewhere which is labeled "contact with the head".


I think we agree on a lot of things in preference, but you just seem in a bit of denial where we are and where its going (I wish I was).  


* and for the NHL/International thing, I'm just thinking 20 years down the line and a possible natural possible progression of things

Meltdown99

Austria

Canada ties the game with .4 seconds left and it took those idiots in the review almost 5 minutes to make a decision.  That's another problem with having a European league...the officiating and official in international hockey has no business over seeing pros...

Meltdown99

Austria

1/2 a second away from elimination, Canada ties the game...Mark Stone wins the farce for Canada...

Omly the IIHF decides playoff games with 3 on 3 and shootouts...lol...

Meltdown99

Austria

The Americans at least gave the Russians a run for their money...

Meltdown99

Austria

MayDay10 said:

What CHL?  

I go maybe 10 times a year and there is almost no fighting. It is rare. Back in the mid-late-90s, there used to be all out brawls where the refs would just sit back and take notes.  They resemble NHL games now.

It isn't just the instigator rule.  There are others.  You cant fight without a helmet on.  Everyone (in the NHL) is now required to have a face shield.  In the OHL if you get 3! fights in a season, you are suspended for 3 games, and disciplined for every fight thereafter.  It previously was 10, which the QMJHL has implemented.  
Some teams have less than 10 fights in an entire season now.  The leader in the OHL this season had 7 fighting majors.

I just looked up a quick stat in the WHL.  In 1997-98, there were 1.98 fights per game.  This season, there were 0.38.  That isn't 'calmed down a little'.  The CHL, especially OHL has been at the forefront in getting rid of fighting.  It is critically low in the NHL too.  The Leafs and Vegas had 6 fighting majors apiece all season.  Buffalo had 12.  There were 0.19 fights per game this season.  That is HALF what there was just in 2013-2014.

Sorry, its gone, and past the point of ever coming back (unless they invent a pill you can take to fully prevent/cure concussions and CTS).  This is coming from someone who loved it and owns volumes of hockey fight tapes and still watch fights on youtube.  I would trade nearly anything if we could wave a magic wand and all of hockey could be restored to 80s-90s.

They cannot roll back rules and 'encourage' fighting, while at the same time defend themselves from Concussion-related litigation in the present and future.  I also don't believe players are particularly eager to pile up fights, especially when there is that many $$$ at stake. I listen to Rob Ray and Andrew Peters on the radio all the time, and it sounds like they don't look back too fondly on their need to fight and it was pretty nerve-wracking.


Physical play will never be gone, as it is built into the sport.  Huge hits though, especially open-ice are being legislated out.  Whenever there is a big hit and someone gets hurt (which seems like every time), fans and media get all up in arms and the "head of player safety" needs to get involved.  Then you watch their silly video in super-slo-mo and they justify a 'charging' catch all (when the play happened in a split second), if you dont see the player's head bounce off the player somewhere which is labeled "contact with the head".


I think we agree on a lot of things in preference, but you just seem in a bit of denial where we are and where its going (I wish I was).  


* and for the NHL/International thing, I'm just thinking 20 years down the line and a possible natural possible progression of things

If you say so.  Have a nice day.