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BETO for PRESIDENT!

mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,822
in A Moving Train
What do you guys think?  Sounds like this is a real possibility.  He's on fire right now.  I haven't researched his policies and political leanings, but certainly he can bring some excitement to the game.  Discuss!  
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Comments

  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,917
    Wouldn't hurt for him to try. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 20,661
    Sanders/O'Rourke
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Why Beto?  What has he accomplished?  I get that he is young and charismatic, but what substance does he have?
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,917
    PJPOWER said:
    Why Beto?  What has he accomplished?  I get that he is young and charismatic, but what substance does he have?
    Well he almost beat Cruz in the Senate race. He probably received a nice participation trophy for that. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    He was a US Rep in Texas and then lost to Cruz... and he plays a mean air drum, don't know much besides that 
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Why Beto?  What has he accomplished?  I get that he is young and charismatic, but what substance does he have?
    Well he almost beat Cruz in the Senate race. He probably received a nice participation trophy for that. 
    Lol, true!  Participation trophies are something many can identify with. 
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Gern Blansten said:
    Sanders/O'Rourke
    oh God, do people really want Sanders? 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,822
    I think you have to look at the Democratic party makeup and understand that it responds best to charismatic, positive leaders.  Clinton and Obama fit a particular mold.  Beto does as well.  
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,821
    He has my vote because of who he is, what he represents,  and what he is not.

    He is not a.....
    Racist
    Xenophobe
    Liar
    Troll
    Former Game show host
    White nationalist enabler
    Anti-constitutionalist
    Embarrassment to America 
    Etc
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    mrussel1 said:
    I think you have to look at the Democratic party makeup and understand that it responds best to charismatic, positive leaders.  Clinton and Obama fit a particular mold.  Beto does as well.  
    Interesting, I thought Clinton and Obama were quite different in regards to positivity and charisma.  Regardless, are you saying that charisma and positivity are more important than actual success or policies?  Seems a bit surface level.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 20,661
    fife said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    Sanders/O'Rourke
    oh God, do people really want Sanders? 
    I hope so
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,917
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I think you have to look at the Democratic party makeup and understand that it responds best to charismatic, positive leaders.  Clinton and Obama fit a particular mold.  Beto does as well.  
    Interesting, I thought Clinton and Obama were quite different in regards to positivity and charisma.  Regardless, are you saying that charisma and positivity are more important than actual success or policies?  Seems a bit surface level.
    Of course it is!!! Just look back at the last 7 presidential elections. The more charismatic candidate won each time. Policy and experience be damned. 

    1992: B. Clinton over Bush Sr.
    1996: B. Clinton over Dole 
    2000: Bush Jr. over Gore 
    2004: Bush Jr. over Kerry
    2008: Obama over McCain
    2012: Obama over Romney
    2016: Trump over H. Clinton

    Bush in 2004, Obama in 2008, and Trump in 2016 are the most glaring examples of "the person that was 'cooler' won." What was Obama when he ran? A one-term Senator? McCain was a senator forever and a war hero. That used to win elections. But Obama was cooler. What about Trump? Trump doesn't know his elbow from his asshole. But he was entertaining and different. Hillary was as boring as Romney. 

    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,822
    Policies are important but you need someone that can  enthusiastically sell the policies.

    Clinton and Obama were different in their styles,  one with soaring rhetoric and other with Southern charm.  But the effects were similar. 
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,302
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    Gern Blansten said:
    Sanders/O'Rourke
    Oh God please no...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited November 2018
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,355
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    I believe I heard on NPR, I know, GASP, that the candidate that spent the most won, in every race, regardless of party. “Corporations are people, my friend.” It was an interview with someone from Blue Wave which allows small money donors to donate to Dems anywhere. They act as a clearinghouse and every dem member of Congress is in their database.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,920
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    Yeah lost a race that he should’ve lost by 30 points I’d say he did well for himself..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,302
    josevolution said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    Yeah lost a race that he should’ve lost by 30 points I’d say he did well for himself..
    Exactly. Losing in Texas is no shame for a Democrat, while making Texas competitive is quite the accomplishment.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,195
    Lock Him Up!

    (applies to whoever gets the Dem nomination)
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    I believe I heard on NPR, I know, GASP, that the candidate that spent the most won, in every race, regardless of party. “Corporations are people, my friend.” It was an interview with someone from Blue Wave which allows small money donors to donate to Dems anywhere. They act as a clearinghouse and every dem member of Congress is in their database.
    I’m not sure about that.  I know Beto had a lot more to spend than Cruz, and a lot of it came from outside donors through “Actblue”.  Do you have an NPR link where they broke that down?  
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,920
    JimmyV said:
    josevolution said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    Yeah lost a race that he should’ve lost by 30 points I’d say he did well for himself..
    Exactly. Losing in Texas is no shame for a Democrat, while making Texas competitive is quite the accomplishment.
    Yep there’s a crack in the Texas Republican dam and it’s only gonna get bigger ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I think the importance of political qualifications has taken a backseat to political baggage anyways, so Beto is a fair choice.  Inexperience is the new experience.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,355
    PJPOWER said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    I believe I heard on NPR, I know, GASP, that the candidate that spent the most won, in every race, regardless of party. “Corporations are people, my friend.” It was an interview with someone from Blue Wave which allows small money donors to donate to Dems anywhere. They act as a clearinghouse and every dem member of Congress is in their database.
    I’m not sure about that.  I know Beto had a lot more to spend than Cruz, and a lot of it came from outside donors through “Actblue”.  Do you have an NPR link where they broke that down?  
    That’s what it was, Actblue. I heard it while driving so no link but I’ll see if I can find it. It was interesting but also disgusting when you consider how much money is spent by all sides. Part of the reason better candidates don’t run, IMHO.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,355
    It might have been one of these?

    https://www.npr.org/tags/588951487/actblue

    https://www.npr.org/2018/09/17/648849091/campaigns-creating-ads-that-bring-money-in-not-just-send-messages-out

    https://www.npr.org/2018/02/27/588941252/trump-powers-small-dollar-donor-surge-for-democratic-fundraising-site

    https://www.npr.org/2018/02/26/588927114/resistance-to-trumps-presidency-is-helping-groups-on-the-left-raise-money
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JimmyV said:
    A Democrat that can get 4 million votes in Texas is doing something right. I would have to get to know him a little more before giving him my vote, but he would be a great addition to the primary.
    He did spend a ton more money on campaigning in TX than his opponent. That may have been a bit of a factor...but he still lost.
    I believe I heard on NPR, I know, GASP, that the candidate that spent the most won, in every race, regardless of party. “Corporations are people, my friend.” It was an interview with someone from Blue Wave which allows small money donors to donate to Dems anywhere. They act as a clearinghouse and every dem member of Congress is in their database.
    I’m not sure about that.  I know Beto had a lot more to spend than Cruz, and a lot of it came from outside donors through “Actblue”.  Do you have an NPR link where they broke that down?  
    That’s what it was, Actblue. I heard it while driving so no link but I’ll see if I can find it. It was interesting but also disgusting when you consider how much money is spent by all sides. Part of the reason better candidates don’t run, IMHO.
     
    Agreed, if people donated as much to “real” causes, there would probably be a lot less starvation and homelessness...
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,822
    OnWis97 said:
    Lock Him Up!

    (applies to whoever gets the Dem nomination)
    I like how you're ahead of the game.  Well played. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,299
    mrussel1 said:
    Policies are important but you need someone that can  enthusiastically sell the policies.

    Clinton and Obama were different in their styles,  one with soaring rhetoric and other with Southern charm.  But the effects were similar. 
    This is a good point.

    Also, I have long said that the president is one person and that we should not put so much emphasis on one single person setting policy, making all the big decisions, etc.  That, I believe, should be more a responsibility for the legislative and judicial branches.  Someone like Beto who has charisma and good ideas would represent us FAR BETTER than some oaf who spends much of his day tweeting like a teenager Twitter (now who do you suppose I might be talking about?!)

    So yeah, Beto, why not!
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,822
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Policies are important but you need someone that can  enthusiastically sell the policies.

    Clinton and Obama were different in their styles,  one with soaring rhetoric and other with Southern charm.  But the effects were similar. 
    This is a good point.

    Also, I have long said that the president is one person and that we should not put so much emphasis on one single person setting policy, making all the big decisions, etc.  That, I believe, should be more a responsibility for the legislative and judicial branches.  Someone like Beto who has charisma and good ideas would represent us FAR BETTER than some oaf who spends much of his day tweeting like a teenager Twitter (now who do you suppose I might be talking about?!)

    So yeah, Beto, why not!
    There's your slogan!
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Can not see Clinton beating him if he runs...


    Give Peas A Chance…
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