I'd like to entertain arguments for other American bands that surpass PJ. I don't think anything comes close but I'm biased. What are the best American bands of all time? As far as pj is concerned: Front man, distinctive voice, check. Sales, check. Mind melting solos, check. Lyrics, check. Live, performances, check. Longevity, check. Activism/charity, check.
Creating some arbitrary criterias just to be able to check off Pearl Jam I see.
Where are the piano ballads? Not check. Experimentation? Not really a check Creating a foundation for children with handicaps? Not a check Great beards? Not a check Cool female vocals? Not a check Playing Sweden every European tour? Not a check
To me it seems they lose out.
(I think they are the best american band, or at least should be taken into consideration)
And don't forget...
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The thread is 'best band'. This requires a bit of objectivity. The Black Crowes and some of these other bands being mentioned are not solid contenders at all.
Pearl Jam Bruce Springsteen The Doors Metallica RHCP The Eagles... all spring to mind. Extensive catalogues. Talent.
Van Halen GnR Aerosmith Jimi Hendrix CCR... bands like these in the next tier.
Nirvana never had a chance to see what they could become. They may have fizzled. Who knows?
What criteria puts PJ in teir 1 above any of those teir 2 bands?
What criteria immediately dismisses a band like the Crowes?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
I brought up longevity. I just don’t think it’s that as important as body of work during active years and it’s effect on later generations. How many of these people dissing Aerosmith would include them if not for the 2nd career material?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
Was Nirvana influential? They were really good and insanely popular, but I don't recall there being many bands that were influenced by them. I always hear people say Nirvana was influential, but all those post grunge bands sounded like they got their sound more from Pearl Jam than Nirvana.
I'd like to entertain arguments for other American bands that surpass PJ. I don't think anything comes close but I'm biased. What are the best American bands of all time? As far as pj is concerned: Front man, distinctive voice, check. Sales, check. Mind melting solos, check. Lyrics, check. Live, performances, check. Longevity, check. Activism/charity, check.
Creating some arbitrary criterias just to be able to check off Pearl Jam I see.
Where are the piano ballads? Not check. Experimentation? Not really a check Creating a foundation for children with handicaps? Not a check Great beards? Not a check Cool female vocals? Not a check Playing Sweden every European tour? Not a check
To me it seems they lose out.
(I think they are the best american band, or at least should be taken into consideration)
And don't forget...
Lmao. Point well taken. Although LBC and Crazy Mary are almost piano ballads.. BOOOOOOOM!
HugePJFan
"...You try it, I give you the room, you try..."
Skimming through the thread it feels like we are a page away from someone trying to argue Greta Van Fleet.
Personally, I think no band that formed after 90's really belongs in this conversation yet. They just haven't been doing it long enough. Maybe someday, but not today.
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
Was Nirvana influential? They were really good and insanely popular, but I don't recall there being many bands that were influenced by them. I always hear people say Nirvana was influential, but all those post grunge bands sounded like they got their sound more from Pearl Jam than Nirvana.
You’re kidding right? There are tons of direct rip offs, singers that do the Kurt thing, and Nirvanas success opened up a ton of doors for alternative music and the effect is still felt today.
Outside of a few attempted EV knockoffs I can’t think of a single band that sounds like they’re influenced by PJ. Green River and MLB are more influential imo.
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
Was Nirvana influential? They were really good and insanely popular, but I don't recall there being many bands that were influenced by them. I always hear people say Nirvana was influential, but all those post grunge bands sounded like they got their sound more from Pearl Jam than Nirvana.
You’re kidding right? There are tons of direct rip offs, singers that do the Kurt thing, and Nirvanas success opened up a ton of doors for alternative music and the effect is still felt today.
Outside of a few attempted EV knockoffs I can’t think of a single band that sounds like they’re influenced by PJ. Green River and MLB are more influential imo.
The thread is 'best band'. This requires a bit of objectivity. The Black Crowes and some of these other bands being mentioned are not solid contenders at all.
Pearl Jam Bruce Springsteen The Doors Metallica RHCP The Eagles... all spring to mind. Extensive catalogues. Talent.
Van Halen GnR Aerosmith Jimi Hendrix CCR... bands like these in the next tier.
Nirvana never had a chance to see what they could become. They may have fizzled. Who knows?
What criteria puts PJ in teir 1 above any of those teir 2 bands?
What criteria immediately dismisses a band like the Crowes?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
I brought up longevity. I just don’t think it’s that as important as body of work during active years and it’s effect on later generations. How many of these people dissing Aerosmith would include them if not for the 2nd career material?
The basic formula I have generated to comprise my list is as follows:
Popularity X Album Sales X Length of Service = Greatness
* We have limited the field to the 'rock band' genre so guys like Michael Jackson don't factor in this discussion.
* A band can qualify for greatness without a long career if (say) their album sales are significant.
* Popularity is defined as concert attendance, merchandise sales, etc.
Lastly... I haven't given this a ton of thought. I'm just kibda going off the top of my head. The 'greatest bands' I suggested are not my group of personal favourites (although I do like them all to varying degrees).
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
Was Nirvana influential? They were really good and insanely popular, but I don't recall there being many bands that were influenced by them. I always hear people say Nirvana was influential, but all those post grunge bands sounded like they got their sound more from Pearl Jam than Nirvana.
You’re kidding right? There are tons of direct rip offs, singers that do the Kurt thing, and Nirvanas success opened up a ton of doors for alternative music and the effect is still felt today.
Outside of a few attempted EV knockoffs I can’t think of a single band that sounds like they’re influenced by PJ. Green River and MLB are more influential imo.
Creed wasn't influenced by PJ???
I’m sure there was some sort of influence there considering how big PJ was, but I don’t really hear it in their music that I’ve heard.
Should the a minimum criteria be "in the RnR Hall of Fame" vs not? That might help weed out some of these nominations - although the Hall members made asses of themselves by not putting Radiohead (English band so no need to go on about them) in last year.
I love someone mentioned that longevity may not be part of the criteria I'm the OP and I think I may agree. If you can write a true masterpiece that's legendary in and of itself. Like, say, Ten and Nevermind. Maybe sometimes it only takes one, just saying. Oh, I tried my best to catch up on the candidates and read the thread but I do not believe I saw DMB. Terrible oversight by all of us unless I just missed it One more thing thing, PJ was pop in the 90s so don't discount today's pop newcomers. You might just be old to discount 21 pilots, imagine dragons and muse, just to name a few.
Pearl Jam was not pop music in the 90s. They have always been alternative rock. I know the term pop music originates from "popular music", but that's not literal. Pop music is a genre, not a state of being.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The thread is 'best band'. This requires a bit of objectivity. The Black Crowes and some of these other bands being mentioned are not solid contenders at all.
Pearl Jam Bruce Springsteen The Doors Metallica RHCP The Eagles... all spring to mind. Extensive catalogues. Talent.
Van Halen GnR Aerosmith Jimi Hendrix CCR... bands like these in the next tier.
Nirvana never had a chance to see what they could become. They may have fizzled. Who knows?
What criteria puts PJ in teir 1 above any of those teir 2 bands?
What criteria immediately dismisses a band like the Crowes?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
I brought up longevity. I just don’t think it’s that as important as body of work during active years and it’s effect on later generations. How many of these people dissing Aerosmith would include them if not for the 2nd career material?
The basic formula I have generated to comprise my list is as follows:
Popularity X Album Sales X Length of Service = Greatness
* We have limited the field to the 'rock band' genre so guys like Michael Jackson don't factor in this discussion.
* A band can qualify for greatness without a long career if (say) their album sales are significant.
* Popularity is defined as concert attendance, merchandise sales, etc.
Lastly... I haven't given this a ton of thought. I'm just kibda going off the top of my head. The 'greatest bands' I suggested are not my group of personal favourites (although I do like them all to varying degrees).
i think one or two things missing is having Iconic Albums and/or songs. Yea Foo Fighters are great and popular but they don't really have an iconic album or song. Ten and VS. are iconic. Jeremy, Alive, Even Flow, Black and Better Man are iconic. I think that separates good to great bands from historic bands.
The thread is 'best band'. This requires a bit of objectivity. The Black Crowes and some of these other bands being mentioned are not solid contenders at all.
Pearl Jam Bruce Springsteen The Doors Metallica RHCP The Eagles... all spring to mind. Extensive catalogues. Talent.
Van Halen GnR Aerosmith Jimi Hendrix CCR... bands like these in the next tier.
Nirvana never had a chance to see what they could become. They may have fizzled. Who knows?
What criteria puts PJ in teir 1 above any of those teir 2 bands?
What criteria immediately dismisses a band like the Crowes?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
I brought up longevity. I just don’t think it’s that as important as body of work during active years and it’s effect on later generations. How many of these people dissing Aerosmith would include them if not for the 2nd career material?
The basic formula I have generated to comprise my list is as follows:
Popularity X Album Sales X Length of Service = Greatness
* We have limited the field to the 'rock band' genre so guys like Michael Jackson don't factor in this discussion.
* A band can qualify for greatness without a long career if (say) their album sales are significant.
* Popularity is defined as concert attendance, merchandise sales, etc.
Lastly... I haven't given this a ton of thought. I'm just kibda going off the top of my head. The 'greatest bands' I suggested are not my group of personal favourites (although I do like them all to varying degrees).
i think one or two things missing is having Iconic Albums and/or songs. Yea Foo Fighters are great and popular but they don't really have an iconic album or song. Ten and VS. are iconic. Jeremy, Alive, Even Flow, Black and Better Man are iconic. I think that separates good to great bands from historic bands.
Just to start, PJ >>> FF. Isn't "Everlong" a pretty big deal?
If popularity and longevity are big factors then I’d have to give the nod to Foo Fighters over PJ. At their respective peaks, I don’t think FF are quite as big a deal, but I think they’ve stayed bigger for longer. PJ has bounced back in the decade or so since the legacy push started, but FF haven’t really needed that.
Everlong is certainly equal to any PJ song in the grand scheme. Easily in the discussion for rock song of the 90s and they have quite a few more songs more widely considered classic.
Also, although huge at the time I don’t think Vs is considered all that iconic.
I saw Foos for the first time at Fenway last month. Had fun. But they are not even in the same stratosphere as Pearl Jam for live concert experience, IMHO.
I saw Foo Fighters at the first Global Citizen festival in 2012. Have not felt any desire to go out of my way to see them again. Felt like they were mailing it in. Plus, Dave talked about himself all night. Great front men don't do that. They talk about themselves, sure, but they also make it a point to talk about the band and the other individual members. Not Dave Grohl. At least not that night.
Should the a minimum criteria be "in the RnR Hall of Fame" vs not? That might help weed out some of these nominations - although the Hall members made asses of themselves by not putting Radiohead (English band so no need to go on about them) in last year.
No. No one really cares about the RnR HoF.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Not trying to prove anything (really) but thought the US Album Sales data might be interesting when comparing PJ to FF. I've bolded the data for the times both bands were in existence.
Pearl Jam Ten (1991) - 13,300,000 Vs. (1993) - 7,400,000 Vitalogy (1994) - 5,900,000 No Code (1996) - 1,750,000 Yield (1998) - 1,900,000 Binaural (2000) - 850,000 Riot Act (2003) - 575,000 Self-Titled/Avocado/Nothing (2006) - 750,000 Backspacer (2009) - 640,000 Lightning Bolt (2013) - 400,000
Foo Fighters' Album Sales: Self Titled (1995) - 1,468,000 TCATS (1997) - 2,342,000 TNLTL (1999) - 1,300,000 One By One (2002) - 1,400,000 In Your Honor (2005) - 1,500,000 ESPG (2007) - 916,000 Wasting Light (2011) - 663,000 Sonic Highways (2013) - 490,000 Concrete and Gold (2017) - 212,750
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Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,426
Should the a minimum criteria be "in the RnR Hall of Fame" vs not? That might help weed out some of these nominations - although the Hall members made asses of themselves by not putting Radiohead (English band so no need to go on about them) in last year.
No. No one really cares about the RnR HoF.
I care! Had a great time in Brooklyn seeing the band getting inducted.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Should the a minimum criteria be "in the RnR Hall of Fame" vs not? That might help weed out some of these nominations - although the Hall members made asses of themselves by not putting Radiohead (English band so no need to go on about them) in last year.
No. No one really cares about the RnR HoF.
You may be right but a lot of people around here did (myself included) in April 2017!
If popularity and longevity are big factors then I’d have to give the nod to Foo Fighters over PJ. At their respective peaks, I don’t think FF are quite as big a deal, but I think they’ve stayed bigger for longer. PJ has bounced back in the decade or so since the legacy push started, but FF haven’t really needed that.
Everlong is certainly equal to any PJ song in the grand scheme. Easily in the discussion for rock song of the 90s and they have quite a few more songs more widely considered classic.
Also, although huge at the time I don’t think Vs is considered all that iconic.
Comments
Where are the piano ballads? Not check.
Experimentation? Not really a check
Creating a foundation for children with handicaps? Not a check
Great beards? Not a check
Cool female vocals? Not a check
Playing Sweden every European tour? Not a check
To me it seems they lose out.
(I think they are the best american band, or at least should be taken into consideration)
And don't forget...
21 pilots seriously lol
What criteria immediately dismisses a band like the Crowes?
Nirvana should be in in the discussion on influence alone.
I brought up longevity. I just don’t think it’s that as important as body of work during active years and it’s effect on later generations. How many of these people dissing Aerosmith would include them if not for the 2nd career material?
"...You try it, I give you the room, you try..."
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
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http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
You’re kidding right? There are tons of direct rip offs, singers that do the Kurt thing, and Nirvanas success opened up a ton of doors for alternative music and the effect is still felt today.
Outside of a few attempted EV knockoffs I can’t think of a single band that sounds like they’re influenced by PJ. Green River and MLB are more influential imo.
Popularity X Album Sales X Length of Service = Greatness
* We have limited the field to the 'rock band' genre so guys like Michael Jackson don't factor in this discussion.
* A band can qualify for greatness without a long career if (say) their album sales are significant.
* Popularity is defined as concert attendance, merchandise sales, etc.
Lastly... I haven't given this a ton of thought. I'm just kibda going off the top of my head. The 'greatest bands' I suggested are not my group of personal favourites (although I do like them all to varying degrees).
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Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
Next: ??
http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
Isn't "Everlong" a pretty big deal?
Everlong is certainly equal to any PJ song in the grand scheme. Easily in the discussion for rock song of the 90s and they have quite a few more songs more widely considered classic.
Also, although huge at the time I don’t think Vs is considered all that iconic.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Hampton 2016
Pearl Jam
Ten (1991) - 13,300,000
Vs. (1993) - 7,400,000
Vitalogy (1994) - 5,900,000
No Code (1996) - 1,750,000
Yield (1998) - 1,900,000
Binaural (2000) - 850,000
Riot Act (2003) - 575,000
Self-Titled/Avocado/Nothing (2006) - 750,000
Backspacer (2009) - 640,000
Lightning Bolt (2013) - 400,000
Foo Fighters' Album Sales:
Self Titled (1995) - 1,468,000
TCATS (1997) - 2,342,000
TNLTL (1999) - 1,300,000
One By One (2002) - 1,400,000
In Your Honor (2005) - 1,500,000
ESPG (2007) - 916,000
Wasting Light (2011) - 663,000
Sonic Highways (2013) - 490,000
Concrete and Gold (2017) - 212,750