Education is very important, the formality and certification, less so. I had to drop out of college after my first year because I didn't qualify for student loans and I couldn't possibly keep up with the payments.
I've touched a beating heart, I've dislocated/reduced hip and shoulder joints and broken femurs, I've saved a life, I've read Paradise Lost, Ulysses, and Shakespeare, Keats, Browning, and Wilde complete works among much much else, I'm pretty well versed in scientific knowledge, I learned life skills out the yingyang in Boy Scouts, and I've learned just about everything possible about growing food in temperate climates.
Maybe someday I will get a degree, in the meantime I keep up well enough with my highly educated wife and that's good enough for me.
Here is what I learned from University/College... Do not believe everything somebody tells you. This stuff is not for everybody. I also learned how these things are institutions run by people who do not care if you pass, fail, or take many years to finish, as long as everybody get their money. I have a Masters in Criminology, because this is what was expected of me. It is also a career I did not pursue. Along the way I met some great friends, travelled to places I only dreamed of visiting, and most importantly, I fell in love with the woman of my dreams. I am fairly young so you never know, I may choose a different career path. The job I have allows me to pay my bills, travel, see rock shows, and have fun with my family and friends.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,295
I went to 3 semesters of colleg in 2014 and 15. I stopped because I lacked interest in what I was doing and I figured it was too much money for something I wasn’t into. I told myself I’d go back if I knew what I wanted to do.
In 2019 I am going back to school to study Film Production and the Cinematic Arts. I’d love to work on movies, and maybe even make my own some day
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,295
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
What, then, is your conclusion jnimhaoileoin? Is there a link between people on these forums social and political views and their level of education? And if so, what does that link tell you?
Edit: I'm not trying to goad or badger you. I really am curious as to how you (or others here) perceive this link between the view and education level of those who comment here.
Post edited by brianlux on
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well I wasn't the one who asked the question, as I don't have time to analyse the data and seek an answer. I have exams this week
OK matts, I'll throw it back to you.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,295
Post grad
Here's me take: I don't think a fancy document that gets hung on the wall necessarily means a hill of beans when it comes to being knowledgeable, wise and well learned. Those pieces of paper help you get a better job, for sure. But beyond that? It's what you put into to and what you take our of it. If it was just about meeting the course requirements and compiling a list of college credits, then (for example) every doctor would be a fine doctor. They're not. I've know some really shitty doctors. And if lack of a college education means you are ignorant and ill informed, then some people on these boards would be totally idiots not worth giving the time of day... but of course that's horse pucky. There are non-degreed people on these boards who can run mental circles around some of us with degrees- including me.
Here's another factor: Age. My father went to U.C. Berkeley in the late 40's and told me he got a few C's in some of his more difficult engineering classes. I told him, "That must have been discouraging." He replied, "Why? "C" grades in those days were perfectly acceptable. B's were hard to get and only the very brightest received A's. C's meant you were average. If you got a "C" in a tough class, there was no shame in that."
I finished my BA in 1978 and by then, a "C" was considered a poor grade. The average grade was a "B".
When I was a program assistant at our local college in the early 00's, if any of our students received a "C" grade, they freaked out. Everybody expected to get A's. Schools now hand out A's like candy. And because of that, a lot of young people who are out in the world doing life, are learning life. Doesn't mean a degree isn't useful or that an education cannot be enlightening, but there is no guarantee either way. The standards of education are what could use some upgrading.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
You know I’m not going to let my daughter read any of this nonsense because I would like her to go to college and study something she can be happy working in that field.
hippiemom = goodness
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,295
You know I’m not going to let my daughter read any of this nonsense because I would like her to go to college and study something she can be happy working in that field.
Wise move, Cincy.
Actually, I'm all for getting an education. I likewise am hoping my step-daughter finishes her degree. She is super smart and self-confident, etc. and will probably do well anyway, but the fact is, college degrees open doors. That simple.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
So I'll admit I haven't read your link yet....but I also wonder if it's really education or financial stability. For some, they just want all the $ themselves. But for many, if you are financially stable and feel you have more than enough to live, you tend to be willing and wanting to help. And, if you have a college degree you are likely to be earning more $ and be more financially stable.
Of course though, going to college also means being exposed to a lot more people different from yourself and that will drive that behavior as well. If you live in the same town your whole life and don;t have $ to travel, if an issue doesn't effect you directly you can't understand it (or really don't try).
Oh - and professors certainly try to pass on their opinions of things. I had a lawyer teaching an Environmental law course that was a pretty solid activist...it certainly made the curriculum different than someone else. It's not all based on fact, it's based on fact and then someone's interpretation of other things.
I don't think the standard 4-year+ college is right for everyone. I do think that some extended job training really should be. Whether it be a technical school, apprenticeship, whatever. But something that hones a skill and critical thinking. All the while exposed to different points of view.
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Cool article thank you. It does makes sense. I consider myself pretty much in the middle, some things I am to the right and others I am to the left.
I have found that as time passes and I experience more, that my opinions change...sometime significantly. I would say I started out a fairly staunch conservative....and this without a religious undertone at all. Overtime, I've sometimes flip flopped 100% on a topic or have grown into a more gray area. I still find I am a fiscal conservative however socially liberal (with exceptions to each of those statements). I do feel college helped me figure out what I believe by putting different issues in my face and making me think. I loved college.
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
Cool article thank you. It does makes sense. I consider myself pretty much in the middle, some things I am to the right and others I am to the left.
I have found that as time passes and I experience more, that my opinions change...sometime significantly. I would say I started out a fairly staunch conservative....and this without a religious undertone at all. Overtime, I've sometimes flip flopped 100% on a topic or have grown into a more gray area. I still find I am a fiscal conservative however socially liberal (with exceptions to each of those statements). I do feel college helped me figure out what I believe by putting different issues in my face and making me think. I loved college.
College was 20 years go so I don't really think it had any impact on my beliefs. Life experiences, job, location and family all shape my political opinions. And I agree, opinions definitely change especially after having kids.
Well it's obvious to me anyway. It's interesting to see if people's social and political views can be linked to their level of educational attainment. It's a very common area of study in statistics
The less analytical you are the more conservative you are. I made a thread recently in here with a study...
The more education someone has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Maybe that inspired the thread?
So I'll admit I haven't read your link yet....but I also wonder if it's really education or financial stability. For some, they just want all the $ themselves. But for many, if you are financially stable and feel you have more than enough to live, you tend to be willing and wanting to help. And, if you have a college degree you are likely to be earning more $ and be more financially stable.
Of course though, going to college also means being exposed to a lot more people different from yourself and that will drive that behavior as well. If you live in the same town your whole life and don;t have $ to travel, if an issue doesn't effect you directly you can't understand it (or really don't try).
Oh - and professors certainly try to pass on their opinions of things. I had a lawyer teaching an Environmental law course that was a pretty solid activist...it certainly made the curriculum different than someone else. It's not all based on fact, it's based on fact and then someone's interpretation of other things.
I don't think the standard 4-year+ college is right for everyone. I do think that some extended job training really should be. Whether it be a technical school, apprenticeship, whatever. But something that hones a skill and critical thinking. All the while exposed to different points of view.
This topic comes up every couple of months, and I usually question the studies. I'm sure financial stability plays a major role. Also, the younger generation leans more left and also is more likely to go to college and graduate school. So it makes sense education would lean some to the left. But I don't think it is as big of a gap as most studies make it out to be. I didn't see how this particular study defined liberal or conservative, but I have seen many other studies where the definition was skewed in a way to favor one or the other. To me something doesn't add up with these findings right off the bat. If voting even remotely represented these findings, every election would be a landslide. Whatever parameters were used, liberals make up 35% of the total population while conservatives make up 27%. In any election that would be a landslide. The number of conservatives stays essentially the same, changing by just 3-4% throughout. the number of conservatives and liberals for HS or less is exactly the same, 26% for each group. So in no category do conservatives outnumber liberals. How can this be possible when the country is essentially divided if liberals so overwhelmingly favor education? If the point many are trying to make is that liberals are more educated, shouldn't conservatives dominate the HS and some school categories then? But they even lose or tie in those. In most categories the "mixed" makes up the largest group. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that whatever parameters used to define this study did not correctly identify the "mixed" group. I've seen it done before, it is easy to manipulate statistics like this by asking just a couple identifying questions (For example I've seen "do you believe in no exception abortion laws?" and if they answer "yes" they are conservative and if they answer "no" they are liberal, when in fact nearly all conservatives/pro-lifers do believe in exceptions. This is just used to misidentify groups). If the mixed group was truly mixed, and voting even remotely represented these findings, every election would be a landslide and there would be no republicans in office. In reality I would predict that the difference is small, probably 3-5%, and that would be accounted for the newer generation leaning left and having more education available/required.
Comparing voting outcomes to this poll to debunk the poll doesn’t really work because of the country’s low voter turnout. There isn’t a 50/50 split. Conservatives are less than half, maybe 35-40%. If voter turnout was 100%, there would hardly be any republicans in office because non-voter values align more with the Dems. It’s why Republicans essentially want to put up barriers to voting and don’t really care about low turnout.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,295
Comparing voting outcomes to this poll to debunk the poll doesn’t really work because of the country’s low voter turnout. There isn’t a 50/50 split. Conservatives are less than half, maybe 35-40%. If voter turnout was 100%, there would hardly be any republicans in office because non-voter values align more with the Dems. It’s why Republicans essentially want to put up barriers to voting and don’t really care about low turnout.
Interesting point, GB. What do you attribute to low left leaning/ Dem voter turn out?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
I had to drop out of college after my first year because I didn't qualify for student loans and I couldn't possibly keep up with the payments.
I've touched a beating heart, I've dislocated/reduced hip and shoulder joints and broken femurs, I've saved a life, I've read Paradise Lost, Ulysses, and Shakespeare, Keats, Browning, and Wilde complete works among much much else, I'm pretty well versed in scientific knowledge, I learned life skills out the yingyang in Boy Scouts, and I've learned just about everything possible about growing food in temperate climates.
Maybe someday I will get a degree, in the meantime I keep up well enough with my highly educated wife and that's good enough for me.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In 2019 I am going back to school to study Film Production and the Cinematic Arts. I’d love to work on movies, and maybe even make my own some day
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Postgraduate Diploma in Accounting
MA Léamh agus Scríobh na Gaeilge
MA Terminology
Currently doing another Postgrad Diploma in Translation and Editing
Yeah, I'm still curious about this as well.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
OK matts, I'll throw it back to you.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I made a thread recently in here with a study...
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/27/study-finds-those-graduate-education-are-far-more-liberal-peers
I consider myself pretty much in the middle, some things I am to the right and others I am to the left.
Of course though, going to college also means being exposed to a lot more people different from yourself and that will drive that behavior as well. If you live in the same town your whole life and don;t have $ to travel, if an issue doesn't effect you directly you can't understand it (or really don't try).
Oh - and professors certainly try to pass on their opinions of things. I had a lawyer teaching an Environmental law course that was a pretty solid activist...it certainly made the curriculum different than someone else. It's not all based on fact, it's based on fact and then someone's interpretation of other things.
I don't think the standard 4-year+ college is right for everyone. I do think that some extended job training really should be. Whether it be a technical school, apprenticeship, whatever. But something that hones a skill and critical thinking. All the while exposed to different points of view.
And I agree, opinions definitely change especially after having kids.
Also, the younger generation leans more left and also is more likely to go to college and graduate school. So it makes sense education would lean some to the left.
But I don't think it is as big of a gap as most studies make it out to be. I didn't see how this particular study defined liberal or conservative, but I have seen many other studies where the definition was skewed in a way to favor one or the other.
To me something doesn't add up with these findings right off the bat.
If voting even remotely represented these findings, every election would be a landslide. Whatever parameters were used, liberals make up 35% of the total population while conservatives make up 27%. In any election that would be a landslide.
The number of conservatives stays essentially the same, changing by just 3-4% throughout.
the number of conservatives and liberals for HS or less is exactly the same, 26% for each group. So in no category do conservatives outnumber liberals. How can this be possible when the country is essentially divided if liberals so overwhelmingly favor education? If the point many are trying to make is that liberals are more educated, shouldn't conservatives dominate the HS and some school categories then? But they even lose or tie in those.
In most categories the "mixed" makes up the largest group.
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that whatever parameters used to define this study did not correctly identify the "mixed" group. I've seen it done before, it is easy to manipulate statistics like this by asking just a couple identifying questions (For example I've seen "do you believe in no exception abortion laws?" and if they answer "yes" they are conservative and if they answer "no" they are liberal, when in fact nearly all conservatives/pro-lifers do believe in exceptions. This is just used to misidentify groups).
If the mixed group was truly mixed, and voting even remotely represented these findings, every election would be a landslide and there would be no republicans in office.
In reality I would predict that the difference is small, probably 3-5%, and that would be accounted for the newer generation leaning left and having more education available/required.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"