Syria

PJ_Soul

my2hands said:

America has 2,000 troops in Syria... and bombed empty facilities for about 20 minutes 

And yet they are responsible for the situation in Syria and the atrocities committed... all the shit about cracking down on opposition... mass detaining... torture... rapes... killings... civilian attacks... chemical attacks... that's all either fake or America's fault? Meanwhile, Assad and Putin are righteous peacemakers... that is literally your narrative. As well as Polaris... i mean c'mon, give me a fucking break

You're anti-US bias is being used against you and blinding you to the obvious reality of the situation

mcgruff10 said:

Excellent posts my2hands. I d also like to ask what would have happened to South Korea if we had pulled out sometime in the past 55 years?

With all due respect to you two, DrownedOut is pretty much the only person in this entire thread who actually offers any tangible facts, sources, or thorough knowledge.... Is he anti-American (i.e. biased against the USA)? Well, I don't know. Maybe. Are you DrownedOut? I think you can probably be trusted to assess that yourself honestly. I have occasionally thought that maybe you are, but have also considered the possibility that you focus on certain American activities because we are all inundated by pro-American information (also biased), and you feel the need to counteract it. If so, I think that's a somewhat reasonable objective.

I am not "anti-American"... and I'm not "pro-American". I feel about as objective as I can about this entire issue, and sincerely have had no desire to even reach the point of "picking sides" in a lot of cases (is that even necessary? I don't think so). And from what I can tell, you guys, my2hands and McGruff, are extremely biased towards America in most of your viewpoints (not just in this thread). I don't even think of this as your fault, really. Pro-American propaganda runs unusually deep and wide in the USA. It is very deliberate in American government, education, and media, and it propagates itself among the masses. The only reason I'm saying this is because it's impossible for anyone to see anything objectively if they are already completely convinced that they already are seeing things objectively, but aren't. And probably the vast majority of Americans are going to be specifically pro-American (i.e. biased) about a lot of things - it's only human - but FYI, from my perspective, you two seem outstandingly so a fair bit of the time. It seems to close you off to certain other ideas/possibilities/realities/facts/perspectives. I have to agree with DrownedOut about you falling victim to 'American exceptionalism'... I mean, more than most.

my2hands

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

cincybearcat

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

I'm enjoying this turn of events,

Drowned Out

See m2h, you are completely ignoring what I said earlier about the US not needing boots on the ground to be responsible for this war....

pj_s: I don’t consider myself anti-American.  I love the land and a lot of people down there.  I consider myself anti-imperialism, and anti-war....which basically by default makes me a huge critic of US/NATO.  
US/NATO has been systematically encircling Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union.  Questioning whether id have preferred a soviet controlled world order following ww2 belies the fact that the US NATO has expanded immensely since then.  So yes, a lot of my anti-war efforts focus on long term non-partisan US policies that endanger us all. Most instances of Russian ‘aggression’ can be traced back to plans for NATO expansion, which directly threatens Russia’s standing in the world by every metric.  Countering the US policy propaganda is def part of my MO...not some deep seeded resentment of the US, nor a belief that Russia is innocent.  Russia has been largely reactionary to US policy, and in doing so has been guilty of their own brutality.  The record does not show them as the instigators in most instances.

PJ_Soul

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

I don't think anyone was being anything close to black and white, or that the world is unicorns and rainbows, so I'm not too sure why you said that.
Yes, of course, only bashing America and not spreading the blame around is super biased too... not sure anyone is doing that either.

my2hands

So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?

And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right? 

Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical

I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality. 

Now pardon me,  I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol

PJ_Soul

my2hands said:

So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?

And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right? 

Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical

I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality. 

Now pardon me,  I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol

Who are you talking to?

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

I don't think anyone was being anything close to black and white, or that the world is unicorns and rainbows, so I'm not too sure why you said that.
Yes, of course, only bashing America and not spreading the blame around is super biased too... not sure anyone is doing that either.

This forum is very anti-American and it grows extremely tiresome. Our country is pretty much damned if we do and damned if we don’t.  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

I don't think anyone was being anything close to black and white, or that the world is unicorns and rainbows, so I'm not too sure why you said that.
Yes, of course, only bashing America and not spreading the blame around is super biased too... not sure anyone is doing that either.

This forum is very anti-American and it grows extremely tiresome. Our country is pretty much damned if we do and damned if we don’t.  

Well even if that is true (I don't think it is), I feel like at the very least people are quite sincerely going off of real life circumstances to form that sentiment. What would you like people to do? Fake it? Ignore reality? Hell, can you imagine how Russians feel?? I'm pretty sure they think SO many people are anti-Russian, and they seem frustrated with that... That doesn't mean Putin is a good guy and that Russia is a positive beam of light in a dark world.
In other words... your frustration with what you call anti-Americanism seems to me another symptom of what Drowned called your sense of American exceptionalism.

my2hands

Those people in the USSR had it good, especially under Stalin and The Great Purge!

Good times in the gulags! I heard Thursdays were open mic night

my2hands

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?

And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right? 

Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical

I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality. 

Now pardon me,  I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol

Who are you talking to?

I'm talking to the Putin apologist who just claimed America and NATO are to blame for all of Russias bad actions 

I mean c'mon

mcgruff10

my2hands said:

Those people in the USSR had it good, especially under Stalin and The Great Purge!

Good times in the gulags! I heard Thursdays were open mic night

Also don’t you dare retreat even if you are outnumbered 2000 to 15 because we will machine gun your butts on the way back to the lines. 

dignin

my2hands said:

I never thought I would be accused of being a biased cheerleader for american exceptionalism lol

I call it how I see it... the world is not as black & white as some people like to make it, there is a lot of grey... and to just constantly bash america and portray it as evil is lazy and hypocritical

Honestly, it's not worth explaining me or my positions, feel free to label me how you wish

Sometimes liberals and progressives,  like myself, need to realize the world isn't all rainbows and unicorns 

Call me when 100,000 US troops are in Syria, then we can talk. Until then, feel free to continue to be Assad and Putin apologists 

From everything I've read here, I don't think you have been an American cheerleader. Quite the opposite.

dignin

I guess if you don't trust Russian sources and don't outright dismiss more mainstream western sources that makes you an American cheerleader.....if so, count this Canuck in!

tbergs

dignin said:

I guess if you don't trust Russian sources and don't outright dismiss more mainstream western sources that makes you an American cheerleader.....if so, count this Canuck in!

I think she's a Russian spy...Is that Melania?

Drowned Out

my2hands said:

So, Russia taking Crimea by force and murdering countless journalists and members of the opposition is Americas fault?

And let me guess, the apartment bombings, a real false flag attack, was caused by them evil Americans as well, right? 

Sweet baby jesus, this shit is comical

I dont know how many times i have to point this out, but i'll try again....... JIM, the joint investigative body of OPCW & The UN have clearly stated that they found the Syrian government responsible for multiple chemical attacks. That's a fact. Deny it, put your head in the sand, dont believe it, I dont really give a shit because it doesn't change reality. 

Now pardon me,  I have John Bolton on line 3, we're figuring out how to justify an invasion of Canada lol

Putin apologist.    And you say your world is not black and white.  

We can get sidetracked for days on this shit.  Crimea and the Ukraine protests are a perfect example of US/NATO expansionism.  It’s on record…remember the ‘fuck the EU’ phone call – Victoria Nuland discussing which puppet the US would install in Ukraine?  The US was caught red handed planning overthrow on Russia’s doorstep.  Nuland then stated openly on CNN (A MAINSTREAM US SOURCE I DIDN'T DISMISS!    ) that the US had spent 5b on the coup.  Letting Crimea go would have been surrendering one of Russia’s most strategic bases.  They’d have been cut off from the Black Sea, ergo the Mediterranean and it’s only supply route to Syria. This grievous invasion of the peninsula happened with the full support of the people in the region, and without a shot fired. 

Chechnya was some heinous shit….but guess what Russia uses as a precedent?  The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, and later the War on Terror.  What else ya got?

Anyway, I was talking imperialism.  Or should I be bringing up Waco, Ruby Ridge, capital punishment, targeted killings, etc etc….I gave you examples of dead american and allied journalists already.  Should I start listing US/NATO wars of aggression for quality/quantity comparison?  

Drowned Out

You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.  



Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements?  The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals?  
Stalin....

mcgruff10

Drowned Out said:

You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.  



Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements?  The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals?  
Stalin....

World war 2 was kind of a big deal. But yeah bring anything up if it is relevant. 

Drowned Out

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned Out said:

You guys and your WW2 references ....it's pathetic.  



Can I bring up all of the turn of the century mass murders of US citizens during the labour movements?  The 1800's slaughter of NA aboriginals?  
Stalin....

World war 2 was kind of a big deal. But yeah bring anything up if it is relevant. 

Thanks man, I wasn't aware lol....demonizing Russia over Stalin, telling me to ask East Germans about team america etc....cmon.

my2hands

Your narrative is that America/NATO is evil and is to blame for all Russian misdeeds and aggression post WW2...

I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is. 

How about Putin blatantly murdering journalists and political opposition? Made up by the western media? Americas fault? Or he's just a misunderstood peacemaker? Lol

The difference is I OWN Americas faults and misdeeds and don't give horseshit excuses, again, I call it how I see it... meanwhile you finger point and make excuses for Assad and Putin while riding some moral anti-american high horse 

Your PM publicly approved of the latest missile attack on Syria, not me... maybe you should take a look in that Canadian mirror