Honest question: Eddie Vedder has supported both Ralph Nader & Bernie Sanders

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  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
     agree with Chewie
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,871




    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    F Me In The Brain said:




    completely unrelated
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    I agree with nearly every progressive principle and goal for society, but I don't fit in with progressive crowds because I'm pragmatic.
    The thing that you aren't seeing is that the harsh feeling you mention in the OP often flows FROM progressives, not to progressives.
    Look at the language you've used, not just the language used toward you.  Calling people sheep is never going to do anything but make the name caller look like a loon.
    Hard-left progressives have no compromise and therefore they get nothing done in the real world.
    In the real world if you don't choose the lesser of evils you will be stuck with the greater evil.
    Period.
    That pragmatism puts progressives at odds with me.  I accept them, they don't accept me.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    rgambs said:
    I agree with nearly every progressive principle and goal for society, but I don't fit in with progressive crowds because I'm pragmatic.
    The thing that you aren't seeing is that the harsh feeling you mention in the OP often flows FROM progressives, not to progressives.
    Look at the language you've used, not just the language used toward you.  Calling people sheep is never going to do anything but make the name caller look like a loon.
    Hard-left progressives have no compromise and therefore they get nothing done in the real world.
    In the real world if you don't choose the lesser of evils you will be stuck with the greater evil.
    Period.
    That pragmatism puts progressives at odds with me.  I accept them, they don't accept me.
    That's complete BS, why do democrats refer to Progressives as "Alt-Left" that's highly disrespectful. And the sheep part, is the fact that Democrats actually believe the CIA is telling the truth, even though they have a long history of doing everything except tell the truth, it's ridiculous and no one would bet their lives or their family's lives on it, because deep down inside they know they are completely full of shit, and are only going along with it to fit their agenda, or Cognitive Dissonance, either way, that is sheep-like behavior, so I don't back track from that at all, I feel like I am living in the twilight zone, Americans citizens actually believing the CIA, lol, that's straight loony tunes.

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    I’ve never heard a Democrat use the term alt-left. You know who does use the term alt left? Trump and others on the right. 

    As for for cognitive dissonance, I would think that would be something you would struggle with, given the way you venerate “experts” who fit your worldview while denigrating others who believe experts you find fault with. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    edited February 2018
    oftenreading said:
    I’ve never heard a Democrat use the term alt-left. You know who does use the term alt left? Trump and others on the right. 

    As for for cognitive dissonance, I would think that would be something you would struggle with, given the way you venerate “experts” who fit your worldview while denigrating others who believe experts you find fault with. 
    whatever dude, if I had cognitive dissonance I would just accept everything I was told instead of actually researching it, so keep on believing. Believe me, my life would be so much fucking easier if I had cognitive dissonance and I could just accept everything on TV & from the government and just accept it, and I could live my life in ignorance, there is something to be said for that, but I had to move to Seattle, the Socialist capital of the USA.

    Post edited by Big Bank Hank on
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,643
    Big Bank Hank said:
    oftenreading said:
    I’ve never heard a Democrat use the term alt-left. You know who does use the term alt left? Trump and others on the right. 

    As for for cognitive dissonance, I would think that would be something you would struggle with, given the way you venerate “experts” who fit your worldview while denigrating others who believe experts you find fault with. 
    whatever dude, if I had cognitive dissonance I would just accept everything I was told instead of actually researching it, so keep on believing. Believe me, my life would be so much fucking easier if I had cognitive dissonance and I could just accept everything on TV & from the government and just accept it, and I could live my life in ignorance, there is something to be said for that, but I had to move to Seattle, the Socialist capital of the USA.

    Are you part of the “general population” or alt-population, one that has a monopoly on truth and access to “real” information? What percentage of the population are you and of which you belong?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    oftenreading said:
    I’ve never heard a Democrat use the term alt-left. You know who does use the term alt left? Trump and others on the right. 

    As for for cognitive dissonance, I would think that would be something you would struggle with, given the way you venerate “experts” who fit your worldview while denigrating others who believe experts you find fault with. 

    Corporate Democrats Now Calling Progressives The "Alt-Left"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4M4Yj6y0j0

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    oftenreading said:
    I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way. 
    I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    oftenreading said:
    I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way. 
    That was a very polite way of putting it
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Labels just cause more hate and lead to fewer constructive actions- why I'm not a fan of labels.  Call me anything but late to dinner.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    Go Beavers said:
    oftenreading said:
    I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way. 
    I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy. 
    I would love to talk policies, which one?
    Democrats taking corporate money like the Republicans?
    Democrats advocating for military occupation and conflicts like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting the Big Banks just like the Republicans?
    Democrats against free college just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting Big Business over small businesses just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting fracking just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting the private for profit prison industry just like the Republicans?
    Democrats against Universal Health Care just like the Republicans?
    so aside from a few issues they are almost the same party
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    So.... both sides are bad?

  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,458
    edited February 2018
    Big Bank Hank said:
    Go Beavers said:
    oftenreading said:
    I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way. 
    I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy. 
    I would love to talk policies, which one?
    Democrats taking corporate money like the Republicans?
    Democrats advocating for military occupation and conflicts like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting the Big Banks just like the Republicans?
    Democrats against free college just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting Big Business over small businesses just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting fracking just like the Republicans?
    Democrats supporting the private for profit prison industry just like the Republicans?
    Democrats against Universal Health Care just like the Republicans?
    so aside from a few issues they are almost the same party
    You're making sweeping generalizations and characterizing any one group or person based on whether or not they take the exact opposite stance. In order to be progressive you're going to have to work your way to the sought after goal. Just because I don't call for a ban on all firearms or drive a car doesn't mean I'm the same as someone who wants all guns legal and believes in cruising just for the hell of it.

    The kind of immediate change you are seeking can only come in an autocracy or dictatorship, which thankfully we don't live in.

    "Change don't come at once
    It's a wave building before it breaks"
    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mfc2006
    mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,491
    Ummmm.....pass.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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  • Big Bank Hank
    Big Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    CM189191 said:
    So.... both sides are bad?

    yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    CM189191 said:
    So.... both sides are bad?

    In my opinion, neither are doing enough.  Which party has stopped endless war?  Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day?  Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system?  Which party has ended fracking?  Etc. 

    Neither.

    Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference.  I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    brianlux said:
    CM189191 said:
    So.... both sides are bad?

    In my opinion, neither are doing enough.  Which party has stopped endless war?  Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day?  Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system?  Which party has ended fracking?  Etc. 

    Neither.

    Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference.  I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
    There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics. 

    Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Redistrict/status/804407177368715265

    Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen. 

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