People Outliving Their Means

bflynn1

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

We are on our second "owned" property now, and I still think it's fucking stupid. We don't own our house; some fucking bank does. I would rather pay a nice landlady/landlord than a fucking bank!

People tell me that I'm "building my equity." I worked on Wall Street for more than 10 years and still have no clue what that means, and it's pointless to try to explain it to me. So don't try. My eyes will glaze over two syllables into it.

This is exactly why I rent.

I do not want to buy a typical Long Island house for 350,000K then have to update it and gut the walls down to the studs to fix the shoddy work that Merle and Anthony did back in the day for another 100-150K then my taxes would go up because I decided to make my house more economical/livable and get penalized for doing it,  so instead of 12K a year I now have to pay 18K a year and with the new tax breaks/laws I can not write off the full amount so there goes more out of pocket expense...

Welcome to NY!

I do get to spend the money that I chose NOT to buy a house on concerts and experiences though.

I don't live in NY but I go back and forth on whether or not I should buy a house ALL THE TIME

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

I don't spend much money because I don't have much money because I live in a place where the cost of living is completely and madly out of control compared to salaries. I've got an above average salary and am still pretty poor, to the point where I have to really, really sweat the decision to just go down to Seattle for a few days. It blows. And I have been in consumer debt because of this and because I wanted to not live in poverty even though I had no money.... Luckily I recently dug myself out of said debt.... And I am working really hard to keep it that way. I found that when I was in debt I was pretty much in denial about it. I just went along my merry way thinking it's not so bad because mine was actually pretty well below the average debt load carried by people... The thing is, the average debt load carried by people is INSANE. So it's hardly acceptable to be well below that crazy number. I was real close to being incapable of digging out, and I know so many people are far deeper in that I ever was. It's pretty scary. There will be a "reckoning" soon enough. This kind of credit economy cannot sustain itself. Everyone hang on to your britches because it could get nasty.

We have 345k in debt lol
Student loans, mortgage, and an optometry practice.

We don't spend beyond our means, we actually spend/spent way less than our peer group.  It's crazy to think that at 30 years old, if we spent like average we would have close to 800k in debt!

Well, mortgage and business investment is different ... That isn't included when talking about "consumer debt". That is included in overall household debt though, and those numbers are obviously staggering. But at least with mortgage you've got an investment on your hands, and obviously business debt is at least supposed to pay for itself via the business. Not so with other kinds of debt, obviously. Student loans are different too, but at least as damaging as consumer debt despite the benefits they allowed for. It's the random credit card debt that is insane, because it is just irresponsible, pure and simple. It brings no returns 99.9% of the time. It is just money down the drain for the sake of some unnecessary luxuries. That said, it is very hard to resist, especially when it comes to using it to make life worth living, like for travelling and shit.

(are you an optometrist rgambs? I don't think I knew that if you are)

No, Becca is the brains of the operation and I'm the muscle lol

PJ_Soul

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Yeah, it's just the American Dream come true.
I could go on all day on this subject because I'm a simple country guy that doesn't spend money, but I will spare you all lol
I will say, people wasting money on new stuff when you can get good used stuff is a big pet peeve.

We have a pontoon boat and an RV and we take 4 weeklong vacations a year, so it's not like we don't have fun, but our camping vacations cost 250$ a week and our boat and RV have the combined age of a senior citizen lol

I don't spend much money because I don't have much money because I live in a place where the cost of living is completely and madly out of control compared to salaries. I've got an above average salary and am still pretty poor, to the point where I have to really, really sweat the decision to just go down to Seattle for a few days. It blows. And I have been in consumer debt because of this and because I wanted to not live in poverty even though I had no money.... Luckily I recently dug myself out of said debt.... And I am working really hard to keep it that way. I found that when I was in debt I was pretty much in denial about it. I just went along my merry way thinking it's not so bad because mine was actually pretty well below the average debt load carried by people... The thing is, the average debt load carried by people is INSANE. So it's hardly acceptable to be well below that crazy number. I was real close to being incapable of digging out, and I know so many people are far deeper in that I ever was. It's pretty scary. There will be a "reckoning" soon enough. This kind of credit economy cannot sustain itself. Everyone hang on to your britches because it could get nasty.

We have 345k in debt lol
Student loans, mortgage, and an optometry practice.

We don't spend beyond our means, we actually spend/spent way less than our peer group.  It's crazy to think that at 30 years old, if we spent like average we would have close to 800k in debt!

Well, mortgage and business investment is different ... That isn't included when talking about "consumer debt". That is included in overall household debt though, and those numbers are obviously staggering. But at least with mortgage you've got an investment on your hands, and obviously business debt is at least supposed to pay for itself via the business. Not so with other kinds of debt, obviously. Student loans are different too, but at least as damaging as consumer debt despite the benefits they allowed for. It's the random credit card debt that is insane, because it is just irresponsible, pure and simple. It brings no returns 99.9% of the time. It is just money down the drain for the sake of some unnecessary luxuries. That said, it is very hard to resist, especially when it comes to using it to make life worth living, like for travelling and shit.

(are you an optometrist rgambs? I don't think I knew that if you are)

No, Becca is the brains of the operation and I'm the muscle lol

A perfect pair then!

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old.

Seattle has seen that type of BOOM with houses.

My sister bought  a cute little house for 285K.  Because of the light rail and Amazon building in the area her little house is worth 650K.

Her house doubled in 5 years time.  That's just dumb.

I keep telling her to take the equity, bulldoze the house and build new with that equity then sell it for a million+.  Take that money and go to the next up and comer and by you a bigger house.

PJ_Soul

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old.

Seattle has seen that type of BOOM with houses.

My sister bought  a cute little house for 285K.  Because of the light rail and Amazon building in the area her little house is worth 650K.

Her house doubled in 5 years time.  That's just dumb.

I keep telling her to take the equity, bulldoze the house and build new with that equity then sell it for a million+.  Take that money and go to the next up and comer and by you a bigger house.

Yeah, that's probably the best option. My best friend is talking about doing the same, but to build a duplex on his property so that his parents can sell their house too, and they can share one property. Then they'd all be flush... But he'd have to live right next door to his parents, which is obviously making him hesitate.

For me, such a housing market is horrible just as a renter. There is the very real fear of being demovicted so developers can build condo towers where just a 1 bedroom unit goes for $800K. If that happens, I won't be able to find another rental that I can even come close to affording. The rental rates have skyrocketed right along with the housing prices. So yeah, if I lose the place I've rented for 17 years (so am therefore paying relatively low rent because it can only legally be increased by 2% plus inflation every year, and even that is just BRUTAL), I'm pretty much hooped. I'll have to eat rice and beans and never go out or buy anything new for the rest of the my life just to pay my rent.... Fuck I hate this place.

dankind

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old. 

We sold our place in Brooklyn for $250K more than we paid for it--and we only lived in that co-op for three years! Stupid! And a place just sold in the building for nearly $375K more than we paid for ours!

And as for the "stay put" thing. No thanks! I'll move somewhere else and rent.

I hate my state commonwealth and paying taxes to a state government that has done everything it can to oppose the will of its voters. I hate my old-as-fuck house. I hate my dumb-as-fuck Masshole neighbors. I hate their giant white heads and their ugly white faces and their atrocious fucking accents.

It's getting to the point at which I don't give a fuck anymore if my family wants to come with me. If it leads to divorce. Fine. 

I am mine. Goddamn it!

Plus, I'll probably get alimony.

FactoryMan93

A while ago, I found out about a documentary about a thing called "Minimalism". All of a sudden a looked around at what I owned realised I don't need that, or a could sell that. Or my favourite... I don't even use that. Within the next few months I had either donated, sold, or threw out a lot of what I didn't need or didn't use and realised I didn't miss anything that had left my home or garage. It really put thing into perspective that material things, for me, don't matter. Family, health, and having fun in life is what matters. You do not need that beautiful Munk Pittsburgh poster from a few years back, you want it. Focus on what matters in your life. Don't buy that new sofa because you're tired of yours, if it hasn't been worn out. Don't buy that nice car just because Conor McGregor did.

Just my input I am not trying to upset anybody.

hedonist

Alimony

Our condo has quadrupled in value since purchased in 1991.  We're not looking to move, but rent for a comparable property here is way beyond our mortgage, even with homeowner dues.  It makes sense to stay put and see where life takes us.  Cost of living in this part of LA is pretty high, but it can be doable. 

FactoryMan, we're in just 700 sf, so even if we wanted to keep a bunch of shit around (which we don't), there's just no space.  It's cleansing to clear out stuff just taking up space.

(we do need a new sofa though - damned cat claws!)

bbiggs

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

We are on our second "owned" property now, and I still think it's fucking stupid. We don't own our house; some fucking bank does. I would rather pay a nice landlady/landlord than a fucking bank!

People tell me that I'm "building my equity." I worked on Wall Street for more than 10 years and still have no clue what that means, and it's pointless to try to explain it to me. So don't try. My eyes will glaze over two syllables into it.

This is exactly why I rent.

I do not want to buy a typical Long Island house for 350,000K then have to update it and gut the walls down to the studs to fix the shoddy work that Merle and Anthony did back in the day for another 100-150K then my taxes would go up because I decided to make my house more economical/livable and get penalized for doing it,  so instead of 12K a year I now have to pay 18K a year and with the new tax breaks/laws I can not write off the full amount so there goes more out of pocket expense...

Welcome to NY!

I do get to spend the money that I chose NOT to buy a house on concerts and experiences though.

Sounds like IL my friend.  Same vicious cycle here.  I do own and am a believer in the value of owning, but the real estate taxes in states like IL, NY, NJ, etc are ridiculous and unsustainable.  

tempo_n_groove

hedonist said:

Alimony

Our condo has quadrupled in value since purchased in 1991.  We're not looking to move, but rent for a comparable property here is way beyond our mortgage, even with homeowner dues.  It makes sense to stay put and see where life takes us.  Cost of living in this part of LA is pretty high, but it can be doable. 

FactoryMan, we're in just 700 sf, so even if we wanted to keep a bunch of shit around (which we don't), there's just no space.  It's cleansing to clear out stuff just taking up space.

(we do need a new sofa though - damned cat claws!)

700sf is a closet in some places.  Holy cow.

Think Arizona and all the space they have out there.

PJ_Soul

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old. 

We sold our place in Brooklyn for $250K more than we paid for it--and we only lived in that co-op for three years! Stupid! And a place just sold in the building for nearly $375K more than we paid for ours!

And as for the "stay put" thing. No thanks! I'll move somewhere else and rent.

I hate my state commonwealth and paying taxes to a state government that has done everything it can to oppose the will of its voters. I hate my old-as-fuck house. I hate my dumb-as-fuck Masshole neighbors. I hate their giant white heads and their ugly white faces and their atrocious fucking accents.

It's getting to the point at which I don't give a fuck anymore if my family wants to come with me. If it leads to divorce. Fine. 

I am mine. Goddamn it!

Plus, I'll probably get alimony.

Well yeah, moving away is another option, but not everyone wants to move our of the city that they love and where all their friends and family are, myself included. I hate my city because of the housing crisis, but I also can't think of another place I actually want to live. At least at this point in my life, I'd rather be poor and stay in my hometown with the people I love. Plus, the climate is great here, and it's super beautiful. I can't leave it. I also don't mind paying my fair share in taxes... but I don't approve of how the skyrocketing property taxes that are based on annual assessments fuck home owners over and force them to move, usually retired folks. That is bullshit and something needs to be done about that. At this point, local governments have allowed themselves to become insanely dependent on property tax revenue growth. If the market crashes, omg, the government funding situation will be so fucked up.

bbiggs

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old.

Seattle has seen that type of BOOM with houses.

My sister bought  a cute little house for 285K.  Because of the light rail and Amazon building in the area her little house is worth 650K.

Her house doubled in 5 years time.  That's just dumb.

I keep telling her to take the equity, bulldoze the house and build new with that equity then sell it for a million+.  Take that money and go to the next up and comer and by you a bigger house.

Yeah, that's probably the best option. My best friend is talking about doing the same, but to build a duplex on his property so that his parents can sell their house too, and they can share one property. Then they'd all be flush... But he'd have to live right next door to his parents, which is obviously making him hesitate.

For me, such a housing market is horrible just as a renter. There is the very real fear of being demovicted so developers can build condom towers where just a 1 bedroom unit goes for $800K. If that happens, I won't be able to find another rental that I can even come close to affording. The rental rates have skyrocketed right along with the housing prices. So yeah, if I lose the place I've rented for 17 years (so am therefore paying relatively low rent because it can only legally be increased by 2% plus inflation every year, and even that is just BRUTAL), I'm pretty much hooped. I'll have to eat rice and beans and never go out or buy anything new for the rest of the my life just to pay my rent.... Fuck I hate this place.  



dont worry...just head south of the border. Everything is peachy down here lol

PJ_Soul

FactoryMan93 said:

A while ago, I found out about a documentary about a thing called "Minimalism". All of a sudden a looked around at what I owned realised I don't need that, or a could sell that. Or my favourite... I don't even use that. Within the next few months I had either donated, sold, or threw out a lot of what I didn't need or didn't use and realised I didn't miss anything that had left my home or garage. It really put thing into perspective that material things, for me, don't matter. Family, health, and having fun in life is what matters. You do not need that beautiful Munk Pittsburgh poster from a few years back, you want it. Focus on what matters in your life. Don't buy that new sofa because you're tired of yours, if it hasn't been worn out. Don't buy that nice car just because Conor McGregor did.

Just my input I am not trying to upset anybody.

I think a good rule of thumb is: If you haven't used something within the past year, excluding maintenance items like basic tools and a few kitchen items and maybe camping gear, get rid of it. You obviously don't need it at all.

bbiggs

To further comment on housing prices and affordability, things are going to change as interest rates rise in the U.S.  Its already beginning.  Affordability diminishes, demand tapers and this insane rate of appreciation slows down or reverses course.  I’ve been in the mortgage business for 17 years and have seen it first hand before (like most of us).  The difference today from 2008 is that the people buying homes now can afford them.  It’s the inevitable spike in interest rates and inflation, that’s been overdue since our government started printing money 10 years ago, that will derail this train. 

lastexitlondon

MayDay10 said:

I also think it is easier to say "I need to pay some bills" than it is "I believe these items are at the top of their value and I want to cash out"

Well only if you are a bullshitter . Im honest and its not about the value now. But about now its time i can't keep the things i love because i can no longer pay my way .

PJ_Soul

We have the same deal - rising interest rates with rising house prices... but the result is that first-time buyers can't crack into the market anymore, so they're fucked. Many younger people are moving away so they can afford to have families. Meanwhile, that hole they should be filling is being filled by foreign buyers, which is also terrible for the overall economy. An empty home tax has also been initiated, but the rich people, largely foreigners who just bought property here as an investment (buy for $500K, sell for $1.5M), don't care about those extra taxes. Pretty soon this will just be a city where nobody can find workers because the workers can't afford to live here, businesses will shut down, big companies don't want to come here because their workers can't afford to live here, public transit will struggle to find drivers and shit ... and so on... I am not looking forward to seeing what the end results are going to be, but it won't be good. At this point, a market crash would be the best thing for the city, which is ridiculous.

ed243421

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well, my parents paid off their house in full and now the bank doesn't own shit. Yes, it took them 30 years. But now it's theirs. So assuming you intend to actually pay off the entire thing, I think it's good. Plus, even if you don't and sell it, and assuming the housing market goes up and up, then you're good too. The problem comes when you either can't even pay it off, or when the market crashes and can't even sell it for what you bought it for. But for everyone I know, because of where I live, they are all going to make out like bandits if the market doesn't crash. If they bought a house for $300K 8 years ago, it is worth at least $800K+ now. It's crazy. The only problem is that if they sell now, sure, they made a ton of money, but they can't upgrade their home at all because all the other homes increased in value in the same crazy fucking way. Best to just stay put... which I guess makes it all completely moot, lol.
There is definitely something to be said for renting. It's not just the interest on the mortgage, but you never have to pay all that money for maintenance and shit (not to mention all the time you save for the same reason). However, assuming the market does not crash, renting provides you with zero security in retirement, and that's kind of scary.... although in a lot of cases, the old folks who own their homes that went up so much in value now find that they can't even pay the property taxes that skyrocket with every annual assessment. It's terrible. I rent, and given the housing market I just described here, I am never going to own.... and I just have to pray that my pension, the Canada Pension Plan, old age security, and whatever my parents have left to leave me will keep a roof over my head when I'm old. 

We sold our place in Brooklyn for $250K more than we paid for it--and we only lived in that co-op for three years! Stupid! And a place just sold in the building for nearly $375K more than we paid for ours!

And as for the "stay put" thing. No thanks! I'll move somewhere else and rent.

I hate my state commonwealth and paying taxes to a state government that has done everything it can to oppose the will of its voters. I hate my old-as-fuck house. I hate my dumb-as-fuck Masshole neighbors. I hate their giant white heads and their ugly white faces and their atrocious fucking accents.

It's getting to the point at which I don't give a fuck anymore if my family wants to come with me. If it leads to divorce. Fine. 

I am mine. Goddamn it!

Plus, I'll probably get alimony.

Hey now, it’s not that white!

bbiggs

PJ_Soul said:

We have the same deal - rising interest rates with rising house prices... but the result is that first-time buyers can't crack into the market anymore, so they're fucked. Many younger people are moving away so they can afford to have families. Meanwhile, that hole they should be filling is being filled by foreign buyers, which is also terrible for the overall economy. An empty home tax has also been initiated, but the rich people, largely foreigners who just bought property here as an investment (buy for $500K, sell for $1.5M), don't care about those extra taxes. Pretty soon this will just be a city where nobody can find workers because the workers can't afford to live here, businesses will shut down, big companies don't want to come here because their workers can't afford to live here, public transit will struggle to find drivers and shit ... and so on... I am not looking forward to seeing what the end results are going to be, but it won't be good. At this point, a market crash would be the best thing for the city, which is ridiculous.

Unreal. If I didn’t know you were in Canada I’d swear you were talking about many parts of the US.  What city are you in? 

PJ_Soul

bbiggs said:

PJ_Soul said:

We have the same deal - rising interest rates with rising house prices... but the result is that first-time buyers can't crack into the market anymore, so they're fucked. Many younger people are moving away so they can afford to have families. Meanwhile, that hole they should be filling is being filled by foreign buyers, which is also terrible for the overall economy. An empty home tax has also been initiated, but the rich people, largely foreigners who just bought property here as an investment (buy for $500K, sell for $1.5M), don't care about those extra taxes. Pretty soon this will just be a city where nobody can find workers because the workers can't afford to live here, businesses will shut down, big companies don't want to come here because their workers can't afford to live here, public transit will struggle to find drivers and shit ... and so on... I am not looking forward to seeing what the end results are going to be, but it won't be good. At this point, a market crash would be the best thing for the city, which is ridiculous.

Unreal. If I didn’t know you were in Canada I’d swear you were talking about many parts of the US.  What city are you in? 

Vancouver, BC. Yup, we've got an honest to god crisis on our hands at this point. The government is attempting to kind of confront it, but it's all wussy shit that has no long term impact whatsoever. The problem just keeps getting worse by the month, literally. Get this - my friend's property was valued at $650,000K in Sept 2016 (bought for $280K in about 2007). By January 2017, only 4 months later, it was valued at over $800K. My parent's place (built for about $32K in 1971), was assessed at $850K in 2016. The 2017 assessment was $1.3M. My sister and her (rich) husband bought their place for about $2.3M about 4 years ago... For 2017 it was assessed at $7.6M for fuck's sake. Obviously having property values go up that dramatically that quickly is a prelude to disaster for everyone besides the rich.... not good for them either, if they can't even find employees to help them stay rich. The average price of a home in Vancouver proper is now well over $1M, and it's not much lower across the entire Metro Vancouver area. It's nuts. Even 7 year old townhouses way the fuck out in the burbs are going for $600K, and the problem is even starting to grow in the interior, like in Kelowna, and over on the Island in Victoria. Even if the market has a huge correction at this point, say goes down 20% or something... everything is still completely unaffordable, as average salaries have been almost totally stagnant for years. The correction would have to be more like 60% before people could reasonably afford shit again, and obviously that would signal a MASSIVE economic crash. It's just nuts. I can't believe anyone allowed this to happen. Did our leaders in BC ever drop the ball big time.