Why did they boo Eddie?

KC138045

PJ_Soul said:

KC138045 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

I'm not a blind follower of anything... and if Eddie were pro-Bush or republican I don't think the band would even exist, let alone have a huge liberal fan base, so it's a moot point, not a solid one.

So your saying their success is tied to their liberal political views?  You think if they were republican they wouldn't be the band they are today? 

Well yeah. I mean, I really said I believe that their success is tied to Eddie's liberal political views, because the rest of the band is also liberal, and I definitely don't think they would have gone along the same path if Eddie wasn't liberal as well. But let's say they were all republican.... there is no way they would have found that success or gone down the same road at all because all their music would have been way different, their vibe would have been way different. I think their fate was built on a very thin and perfect platform, and it could have easily toppled one way or the other if things hadn't gone precisely the way they did ... Think of it in terms of the butterfly effect. Do you really think Ten would have been Ten if all the stars hadn't aligned they way they did and the band didn't have the core beliefs that they happen to have? I don't. And without Ten being Ten, the band would have likely faded into obscurity before it ever got off the ground, if they even found each other in the first place, which they probably wouldn't have.

I guess I've never thought about it like that and you make an interesting point for sure.

For me I'm a fan of the music first and foremost.  I consider myself a centrist politically but tend to lean more right on a lot of social issues.  Ed and the band being liberal does not bother me and I don't mind his rants as I've come to expect him.  I also don't have an issue with the incident that started this thread.  They played a politically charged song that some in the audience didn't appreciate and Ed let them respond and react to it.  I remember the outcry when this happened and I personally thought it was blown out of proportion then and apparently still is.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

KC138045 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

I'm not a blind follower of anything... and if Eddie were pro-Bush or republican I don't think the band would even exist, let alone have a huge liberal fan base, so it's a moot point, not a solid one.

So your saying their success is tied to their liberal political views?  You think if they were republican they wouldn't be the band they are today? 

Well yeah. I mean, I really said I believe that their success is tied to Eddie's liberal political views, because the rest of the band is also liberal, and I definitely don't think they would have gone along the same path if Eddie wasn't liberal as well. But let's say they were all republican.... there is no way they would have found that success or gone down the same road at all because all their music would have been way different, their vibe would have been way different. I think their fate was built on a very thin and perfect platform, and it could have easily toppled one way or the other if things hadn't gone precisely the way they did ... Think of it in terms of the butterfly effect. Do you really think Ten would have been Ten if all the stars hadn't aligned they way they did and the band didn't have the core beliefs that they happen to have? I don't. And without Ten being Ten, the band would have likely faded into obscurity before it ever got off the ground, if they even found each other in the first place, which they probably wouldn't have. Besides, what massive 90s Seattle grunge bands do you know with a massive rise to fame and huge fan base who were led by Republicans? Lol. It wouldn't have worked. The whole Seattle sound wave was a liberal thing, or anti-establishment, don't you think?

I didn't think it was liberal. I didn't think it was political at all to begin with. it was anti-establishment, disaffected youth. but that's not the same. punk rock can be left or right. 

kurt cobain owned a lot of guns and beat his wife. that ain't liberal in my mind. 

mcgruff10

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

How do you determine if someone who agrees with Ed is blind vs. able to see?

all celebrities have SOME blind followers, and this band is different. mcgruff was not saying that all people who agree with ed are sheep. just some. 

correct, that was my point.  we definitely have some blind followers on the boards and you can definitely see some at shows.

That’s what I’m wondering. How do you decide who is a blind follower and who isn’t?

It involves a very complicated algorithm ; it's just too hard to explain on a message board.  It is way easier to discuss over a few beers at a pre-party event before a pj show.  There it will become clear.

HughFreakingDillon

mcgruff10 said:

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

How do you determine if someone who agrees with Ed is blind vs. able to see?

all celebrities have SOME blind followers, and this band is different. mcgruff was not saying that all people who agree with ed are sheep. just some. 

correct, that was my point.  we definitely have some blind followers on the boards and you can definitely see some at shows.

That’s what I’m wondering. How do you decide who is a blind follower and who isn’t?

It involves a very complicated algorithm ; it's just too hard to explain on a message board.  It is way easier to discuss over a few beers at a pre-party event before a pj show.  There it will become clear.

you can see it in their glossed over look in their eyes. LOL

mcgruff10

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Go Beavers said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

How do you determine if someone who agrees with Ed is blind vs. able to see?

all celebrities have SOME blind followers, and this band is different. mcgruff was not saying that all people who agree with ed are sheep. just some. 

correct, that was my point.  we definitely have some blind followers on the boards and you can definitely see some at shows.

That’s what I’m wondering. How do you decide who is a blind follower and who isn’t?

It involves a very complicated algorithm ; it's just too hard to explain on a message board.  It is way easier to discuss over a few beers at a pre-party event before a pj show.  There it will become clear.

you can see it in their glossed over look in their eyes. LOL

You know the look!!! lol

riley540

dignin said:

Go Beavers said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Nah. If the band were not progressive I probably wouldn't be going to their shows because I probably wouldn't like the band that much. My love of PJ is very much tied to their activism.

Simple fact is the art world tends to be progressive, that means I can be more picky than a conservative when it comes to what I can choose to enjoy. Conservatives don't have much to pick from so they have to settle...or listen to garbage like Ted Nugent and Toby Keith. 

This reminds me of when I shared my theory in the PJ facebook group about the majority of artists and musicians being liberal because they fall higher on the empathy scale. Some conservatives there were super defensive, coming up with all kinds of things like artists just pose as liberals for marketing and show, and that it’s really about a 50/50 conservative liberal split. Also that conservatives make up half of Pearl Jam’s fan base. 

Those conservatives obviously don't know shit about the art community.

I am a person that leans more right, and I am super involved in the arts. I love movies, and movie poster artwork from the 1910s - 1980s, and am an avid art collector. I think the arts are important and will always survive and outlive other industries. I think people on the right can like Pearl Jam because they make killer music and put on great concerts. I love Charlton Heston, and not because of him being a republican, but becasuevthe dude could act!!! Lots of people love the Arts from all walks of life. Gotta talk to more people outside your bubble! 

Go Beavers

riley540 said:

dignin said:

Go Beavers said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Nah. If the band were not progressive I probably wouldn't be going to their shows because I probably wouldn't like the band that much. My love of PJ is very much tied to their activism.

Simple fact is the art world tends to be progressive, that means I can be more picky than a conservative when it comes to what I can choose to enjoy. Conservatives don't have much to pick from so they have to settle...or listen to garbage like Ted Nugent and Toby Keith. 

This reminds me of when I shared my theory in the PJ facebook group about the majority of artists and musicians being liberal because they fall higher on the empathy scale. Some conservatives there were super defensive, coming up with all kinds of things like artists just pose as liberals for marketing and show, and that it’s really about a 50/50 conservative liberal split. Also that conservatives make up half of Pearl Jam’s fan base. 

Those conservatives obviously don't know shit about the art community.

I am a person that leans more right, and I am super involved in the arts. I love movies, and movie poster artwork from the 1910s - 1980s, and am an avid art collector. I think the arts are important and will always survive and outlive other industries. I think people on the right can like Pearl Jam because they make killer music and put on great concerts. I love Charlton Heston, and not because of him being a republican, but becasuevthe dude could act!!! Lots of people love the Arts from all walks of life. Gotta talk to more people outside your bubble! 

It’s not a bubble and who likes art and music (which is nearly everyone). It’s about artitsts
and musicians themselves. They tend to be overwhemingly liberal. 

HughFreakingDillon

riley540 said:

dignin said:

Go Beavers said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Nah. If the band were not progressive I probably wouldn't be going to their shows because I probably wouldn't like the band that much. My love of PJ is very much tied to their activism.

Simple fact is the art world tends to be progressive, that means I can be more picky than a conservative when it comes to what I can choose to enjoy. Conservatives don't have much to pick from so they have to settle...or listen to garbage like Ted Nugent and Toby Keith. 

This reminds me of when I shared my theory in the PJ facebook group about the majority of artists and musicians being liberal because they fall higher on the empathy scale. Some conservatives there were super defensive, coming up with all kinds of things like artists just pose as liberals for marketing and show, and that it’s really about a 50/50 conservative liberal split. Also that conservatives make up half of Pearl Jam’s fan base. 

Those conservatives obviously don't know shit about the art community.

I am a person that leans more right, and I am super involved in the arts. I love movies, and movie poster artwork from the 1910s - 1980s, and am an avid art collector. I think the arts are important and will always survive and outlive other industries. I think people on the right can like Pearl Jam because they make killer music and put on great concerts. I love Charlton Heston, and not because of him being a republican, but becasuevthe dude could act!!! Lots of people love the Arts from all walks of life. Gotta talk to more people outside your bubble! 

obviously there are right-leaning folks that still love the arts. there is no question about that. he is responding to the conservatives who claim it is a 50/50 split across the board and with PJ's fan base. that is a downright hilarious claim. 

RoleModelsinBlood31

Awesome thread.  Interesting stuff and a great read.  I loved the band before I ever got into politics and was liberal for a long time before leaning right during Obama’s second term, having voted democrat until this last election even.  The Nassau madness/fan reaction was entirely expected, I feel like someone said above that it wasn’t at all that the playing of bushleaguer was a poor choice or anything like that, it was just the aggressive mask theatrics that pissed people off.  Not the what but the how I guess.  I’m still glad they did it and never have a problem with Ed doing what Ed does politically speaking at the shows, I don’t agree with the content nowadays like I used to, but more power to him to speak his mind.  

As far as the USA chant stuff, I honestly never thought of it like folks on here are saying!  It was always kind of sarcastic and funny and done at sporting events when you were hammered and having a laugh.  People wearing American flag bathing suits and crap like that at 4th of July pool parties and chanting USA while boozing it up and shooting fireworks was kind of how I always was involved in it. Guess I learned something about how international folks see it though for sure!

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

KC138045 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

I'm not a blind follower of anything... and if Eddie were pro-Bush or republican I don't think the band would even exist, let alone have a huge liberal fan base, so it's a moot point, not a solid one.

So your saying their success is tied to their liberal political views?  You think if they were republican they wouldn't be the band they are today? 

Well yeah. I mean, I really said I believe that their success is tied to Eddie's liberal political views, because the rest of the band is also liberal, and I definitely don't think they would have gone along the same path if Eddie wasn't liberal as well. But let's say they were all republican.... there is no way they would have found that success or gone down the same road at all because all their music would have been way different, their vibe would have been way different. I think their fate was built on a very thin and perfect platform, and it could have easily toppled one way or the other if things hadn't gone precisely the way they did ... Think of it in terms of the butterfly effect. Do you really think Ten would have been Ten if all the stars hadn't aligned they way they did and the band didn't have the core beliefs that they happen to have? I don't. And without Ten being Ten, the band would have likely faded into obscurity before it ever got off the ground, if they even found each other in the first place, which they probably wouldn't have. Besides, what massive 90s Seattle grunge bands do you know with a massive rise to fame and huge fan base who were led by Republicans? Lol. It wouldn't have worked. The whole Seattle sound wave was a liberal thing, or anti-establishment, don't you think?

I didn't think it was liberal. I didn't think it was political at all to begin with. it was anti-establishment, disaffected youth. but that's not the same. punk rock can be left or right. 

kurt cobain owned a lot of guns and beat his wife. that ain't liberal in my mind. 

That's what I was thinking as well.  I never saw Ten being political at all.  That early period was more about being wild and crazy, loaded,  bare-chested, and performing with bravado and a certain amount of foolhardiness.  Great stuff when you yourself are young and reckless, but not so impressive (to me) when you mature.  As their albums progressed, political leanings began to show but not strongly until Riot Act. And even then, it's not like the whole album is a musical political platform. Only a couple of songs have an obviously political focus.  And it's not like the live shows were political conventions.   I personally very much like the bits of politics found in RA but that's not at all the sole reason it's one of my very favorite PJ albums.  I just think overall it's one of their more mature albums in terms of writing, execution and commitment to excellence.  

But Bu$hleaguer?  Yeah, that's a great political performance piece.  Doing that song any other way would make no sense.  I you think about it, getting so pissed off about it as to boo a live performance makes no sense. 

Thoughts_Arrive

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

KC138045 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

I'm not a blind follower of anything... and if Eddie were pro-Bush or republican I don't think the band would even exist, let alone have a huge liberal fan base, so it's a moot point, not a solid one.

So your saying their success is tied to their liberal political views?  You think if they were republican they wouldn't be the band they are today? 

Well yeah. I mean, I really said I believe that their success is tied to Eddie's liberal political views, because the rest of the band is also liberal, and I definitely don't think they would have gone along the same path if Eddie wasn't liberal as well. But let's say they were all republican.... there is no way they would have found that success or gone down the same road at all because all their music would have been way different, their vibe would have been way different. I think their fate was built on a very thin and perfect platform, and it could have easily toppled one way or the other if things hadn't gone precisely the way they did ... Think of it in terms of the butterfly effect. Do you really think Ten would have been Ten if all the stars hadn't aligned they way they did and the band didn't have the core beliefs that they happen to have? I don't. And without Ten being Ten, the band would have likely faded into obscurity before it ever got off the ground, if they even found each other in the first place, which they probably wouldn't have. Besides, what massive 90s Seattle grunge bands do you know with a massive rise to fame and huge fan base who were led by Republicans? Lol. It wouldn't have worked. The whole Seattle sound wave was a liberal thing, or anti-establishment, don't you think?

I didn't think it was liberal. I didn't think it was political at all to begin with. it was anti-establishment, disaffected youth. but that's not the same. punk rock can be left or right. 

kurt cobain owned a lot of guns and beat his wife. that ain't liberal in my mind. 

He beat his wife?
Never heard that one.

josevolution

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Nah. If the band were not progressive I probably wouldn't be going to their shows because I probably wouldn't like the band that much. My love of PJ is very much tied to their activism.

Simple fact is the art world tends to be progressive, that means I can be more picky than a conservative when it comes to what I can choose to enjoy. Conservatives don't have much to pick from so they have to settle...or listen to garbage like Ted Nugent and Toby Keith. 

No doubt ^^^^^

HughFreakingDillon

Thoughts_Arrive said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

KC138045 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Solid point Hugh. And unfortunately you have a hell of a lot of "blind" followers of Eddie.

I'm not a blind follower of anything... and if Eddie were pro-Bush or republican I don't think the band would even exist, let alone have a huge liberal fan base, so it's a moot point, not a solid one.

So your saying their success is tied to their liberal political views?  You think if they were republican they wouldn't be the band they are today? 

Well yeah. I mean, I really said I believe that their success is tied to Eddie's liberal political views, because the rest of the band is also liberal, and I definitely don't think they would have gone along the same path if Eddie wasn't liberal as well. But let's say they were all republican.... there is no way they would have found that success or gone down the same road at all because all their music would have been way different, their vibe would have been way different. I think their fate was built on a very thin and perfect platform, and it could have easily toppled one way or the other if things hadn't gone precisely the way they did ... Think of it in terms of the butterfly effect. Do you really think Ten would have been Ten if all the stars hadn't aligned they way they did and the band didn't have the core beliefs that they happen to have? I don't. And without Ten being Ten, the band would have likely faded into obscurity before it ever got off the ground, if they even found each other in the first place, which they probably wouldn't have. Besides, what massive 90s Seattle grunge bands do you know with a massive rise to fame and huge fan base who were led by Republicans? Lol. It wouldn't have worked. The whole Seattle sound wave was a liberal thing, or anti-establishment, don't you think?

I didn't think it was liberal. I didn't think it was political at all to begin with. it was anti-establishment, disaffected youth. but that's not the same. punk rock can be left or right. 

kurt cobain owned a lot of guns and beat his wife. that ain't liberal in my mind. 

He beat his wife?
Never heard that one.

I guess that was a tad incorrect. Courtney called the cops on him for a domestic assault but then recanted later. so it was never proven, but many people believe they a mutually physical relationship. 

PJ_Soul

Well yeah, anti-establishment, but we all know they were liberal as hell, and I don't underestimate the influence of your leanings in this context in your art, whether the actual subject matter of the art is political or not. IMO. Ten wouldn't have been Ten if anything as major as political beliefs had been different with the band or Eddie IMO, and their actions and how they did business (or refused to) would be totally different too, probably. I mean... you can't be a Republican and also set your ideals as a band/business in line with Fugazi, which Eddie was into back then, you know what I mean? 

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

Well yeah, anti-establishment, but we all know they were liberal as hell, and I don't underestimate the influence of your leanings in this context in your art, whether the actual subject matter of the art is political or not. IMO. Ten wouldn't have been Ten if anything as major as political beliefs had been different with the band or Eddie IMO, and their actions and how they did business (or refused to) would be totally different too, probably. I mean... you can't be a Republican and also set your ideals as a band/business in line with Fugazi, which Eddie was into back then, you know what I mean? 

Early on, I might have assumed Pearl Jam were left leaning but I honestly don't see anything about Ten that would indicate that anymore than Ted Nugent's first (self-titled) album.  In fact, had Nugent's first couple of albums come out in the late 80's to early 90's, I would not have been surprised in the least some of the guys in Pearl Jam had been fans.  Henry Rollins was a big Nuge fan years ago.

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well yeah, anti-establishment, but we all know they were liberal as hell, and I don't underestimate the influence of your leanings in this context in your art, whether the actual subject matter of the art is political or not. IMO. Ten wouldn't have been Ten if anything as major as political beliefs had been different with the band or Eddie IMO, and their actions and how they did business (or refused to) would be totally different too, probably. I mean... you can't be a Republican and also set your ideals as a band/business in line with Fugazi, which Eddie was into back then, you know what I mean? 

Early on, I might have assumed Pearl Jam were left leaning but I honestly don't see anything about Ten that would indicate that anymore than Ted Nugent's first (self-titled) album.  In fact, had Nugent's first couple of albums come out in the late 80's to early 90's, I would not have been surprised in the least some of the guys in Pearl Jam had been fans.  Henry Rollins was a big Nuge fan years ago.

Again, I'm not talking about the actual music on Ten. I'm talking what influenced it and its very existence, not the literal content. But yeah, even back then we all knew that the band was left leaning. Anyone who says that wasn't obvious in all kinds of definable and/or indefinable ways is kidding themselves.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well yeah, anti-establishment, but we all know they were liberal as hell, and I don't underestimate the influence of your leanings in this context in your art, whether the actual subject matter of the art is political or not. IMO. Ten wouldn't have been Ten if anything as major as political beliefs had been different with the band or Eddie IMO, and their actions and how they did business (or refused to) would be totally different too, probably. I mean... you can't be a Republican and also set your ideals as a band/business in line with Fugazi, which Eddie was into back then, you know what I mean? 

Early on, I might have assumed Pearl Jam were left leaning but I honestly don't see anything about Ten that would indicate that anymore than Ted Nugent's first (self-titled) album.  In fact, had Nugent's first couple of albums come out in the late 80's to early 90's, I would not have been surprised in the least some of the guys in Pearl Jam had been fans.  Henry Rollins was a big Nuge fan years ago.

Again, I'm not talking about the actual music on Ten. I'm talking what influenced it and its very existence, not the literal content. But yeah, even back then we all knew that the band was left leaning. Anyone who says that wasn't obvious in all kinds of definable and/or indefinable ways is kidding themselves.

It was pretty easy to figure out that they leaned left  after ed wrote "pro choice" on his arm during MTV unplugged.  

bootlegger10

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Dems wouldn't be there. 

PJ_Soul

bootlegger10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one thing to note......I haven't heard one democrat complain about Ed's banter. If he was pro-Bush or pro-any republican, I'm pretty sure the complainers would be from a different side. 

Dems wouldn't be there. 

Agreed.... I think. It's actually kind of hard to judge this, since I can't think of any politically vocal and popular band that is both really good and right wing. I mean, what would that even be like?? Can anyone think of any examples of this? And if this does exist, or if it did, wouldn't they be ranting and singing about shit like guns rights, pro-life, private healthcare, low taxes, and trickle down economics?? Yeah, I would definitely not be into a band like that!

Go Beavers

I knew the Lemon Song was about trickle down economics!