Catalonia Declared independence from Spain

Jason P

What's it all mean?  Is this a big deal?  USA Today makes no mention of it ... but the 3rd top story is about a guy getting locked in a beer cooler overnight at a convenience store.

Is this less important then getting locked in a beer cooler?  Hmmm ...

Go Beavers

So there’s a chance Texas will leave us?

brianlux

Jason P said:

What's it all mean?  Is this a big deal?  USA Today makes no mention of it ... but the 3rd top story is about a guy getting locked in a beer cooler overnight at a convenience store.

Is this less important then getting locked in a beer cooler?  Hmmm ...

For perspective, check out the front page of BBC News today:

http://www.bbc.com/news

brianlux

An interesting tidbit from Wikipedia:

A referendum held in Catalonia in 2014 indicated that 92% of the 2.3 million voters supported Catalonia's transformation into a state. 80% of the 2.3 million voters expressed their preference that this state would be independent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia#Independence_movement_.282014.E2.80.93present.29

This leads me to two questions:  Should they give the people what they want?  And if something like this with similar stats happened in the U.S. with a particular state- say California or Texas, should they give the peiple what they want?

CM189191

How many oppressive tyrannical Spanish had to be shot in order for the Catalanese to gain their independence?  It must have been a bloodbath.

eddiec

brianlux said:

An interesting tidbit from Wikipedia:

A referendum held in Catalonia in 2014 indicated that 92% of the 2.3 million voters supported Catalonia's transformation into a state. 80% of the 2.3 million voters expressed their preference that this state would be independent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia#Independence_movement_.282014.E2.80.93present.29

This leads me to two questions:  Should they give the people what they want?  And if something like this with similar stats happened in the U.S. with a particular state- say California or Texas, should they give the peiple what they want?

The referendum itself was illegal. No way the Spanish government allows it to happen.

Jason P

Yeah, this sounds like something Texas would talk about doing for political street cred but would never seriously consider doing it.   All fun in games until the tanks roll in.

lastexitlondon

I just read the uk won't recognise the independent state. And things like the football situation with Barcelona being a catalan team. May mean they can't play in la liga. Considering barca are the biggest team in the world it may all get very complicated. Although i like the beer cooler story more!

Jason P

My thoughts are that the impact to Spain ... football  ... will unite the region to kill this deal even though Spain soccer is one of the most racist organizations in the last several decades. You can not deny. 

oftenreading

In Canada we've gone through this process a few times, with the province of Quebec holding referenda around the question of separation and establishment of an independent state. They've never quite gotten enough votes for the Yes side, but there has been a lot of discussion and speculation as to what it could look like. Many outside of Quebec doubt they could make it on their own, as they have traditionally received more funding from the federal government than they produce from their own revenues. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

In Canada we've gone through this process a few times, with the province of Quebec holding referenda around the question of separation and establishment of an independent state. They've never quite gotten enough votes for the Yes side, but there has been a lot of discussion and speculation as to what it could look like. Many outside of Quebec doubt they could make it on their own, as they have traditionally received more funding from the federal government than they produce from their own revenues. 

I remember going into a department store somewhere in Quebec for something I needed somewhat urgently. 
Oh the glares!  American swine!  English speaker who can't speak French!  Scum! 
Sheesh- a very discomforting experience!  Once we got to Toronto though, we had a great time.  Nice town!

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

In Canada we've gone through this process a few times, with the province of Quebec holding referenda around the question of separation and establishment of an independent state. They've never quite gotten enough votes for the Yes side, but there has been a lot of discussion and speculation as to what it could look like. Many outside of Quebec doubt they could make it on their own, as they have traditionally received more funding from the federal government than they produce from their own revenues. 

I remember going into a department store somewhere in Quebec for something I needed somewhat urgently. 
Oh the glares!  American swine!  English speaker who can't speak French!  Scum! 
Sheesh- a very discomforting experience!  Once we got to Toronto though, we had a great time.  Nice town!

Quebec is its own slice of the world, for sure. They can be prickly but a lot of the province is beautiful and interesting. I can understand the passion to retain their language and culture but I don't think they necessarily do themselves any favours by the fervour with which they pursue that. 

jnimhaoileoin

It's a huge story in Europe. Unfortunately it seems EU countries, including Ireland, are going to toe the line and support the Spanish government in their suppression of the Catalans

jnimhaoileoin

oftenreading said:

In Canada we've gone through this process a few times, with the province of Quebec holding referenda around the question of separation and establishment of an independent state. They've never quite gotten enough votes for the Yes side, but there has been a lot of discussion and speculation as to what it could look like. Many outside of Quebec doubt they could make it on their own, as they have traditionally received more funding from the federal government than they produce from their own revenues. 

The opposite is true of Catalunya, they contribute more to state coffers than they receive. Spain is hugely dependent on the region, hence their determination to keep it under their control

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

In Canada we've gone through this process a few times, with the province of Quebec holding referenda around the question of separation and establishment of an independent state. They've never quite gotten enough votes for the Yes side, but there has been a lot of discussion and speculation as to what it could look like. Many outside of Quebec doubt they could make it on their own, as they have traditionally received more funding from the federal government than they produce from their own revenues. 

I remember going into a department store somewhere in Quebec for something I needed somewhat urgently. 
Oh the glares!  American swine!  English speaker who can't speak French!  Scum! 
Sheesh- a very discomforting experience!  Once we got to Toronto though, we had a great time.  Nice town!

Quebec is its own slice of the world, for sure. They can be prickly but a lot of the province is beautiful and interesting. I can understand the passion to retain their language and culture but I don't think they necessarily do themselves any favours by the fervour with which they pursue that. 

Yeah, I remember the landscape was great.  But to quote George Carlin, "It's the people that are..." 

...well, but them I'm sure there are some really fine Quebecians too!

brianlux

jnimhaoileoin said:

It's a huge story in Europe. Unfortunately it seems EU countries, including Ireland, are going to toe the line and support the Spanish government in their suppression of the Catalans

Why is that, jnim?  Is it because they have seem to much of that sort of thing (i.e. Brexit)?  Or something else?

jnimhaoileoin

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

It's a huge story in Europe. Unfortunately it seems EU countries, including Ireland, are going to toe the line and support the Spanish government in their suppression of the Catalans

Why is that, jnim?  Is it because they have seem to much of that sort of thing (i.e. Brexit)?  Or something else?

It's a legal thing, the EU is bound to respect the Spanish constitution

eddiec

jnimhaoileoin said:

brianlux said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

It's a huge story in Europe. Unfortunately it seems EU countries, including Ireland, are going to toe the line and support the Spanish government in their suppression of the Catalans

Why is that, jnim?  Is it because they have seem to much of that sort of thing (i.e. Brexit)?  Or something else?

It's a legal thing, the EU is bound to respect the Spanish constitution

Catalunya has been a part of Spain for 500 years. It's not as though the Spanish government suppresses their language or culture. To me, it's solely a monetary issue more than culture. There is no oppression in Catalunya. If there was I could understand their desire for an independent state.

tempo_n_groove

Has anyone found a good article on this that explains both sides and as to why this is happening?

unsung

Hoorah for them!