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The Vietnam War on PBS

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  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 8,692
    ^^^damn.  Glad u didnt go, Brian. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    cp3iverson said:
    ^^^damn.  Glad u didnt go, Brian. 
    Thanks, cp, me too!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    What's crazy is that the volunteer rate for Vietnam was higher than WW2!
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,275
    rgambs said:
    What's crazy is that the volunteer rate for Vietnam was higher than WW2!
    Someone made a comment on the Thursday night show about how the WWII generation keeps getting referred to as "the greatest generation" and how that seems to suggest that the Vietnam vets weren't as brave, etc.

    I can't disagree with that.
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    I'm recording the whole thing, and will binge watch it. I am extremely excited - I am a huge Ken Burns doc fan.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,275
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm recording the whole thing, and will binge watch it. I am extremely excited - I am a huge Ken Burns doc fan.
    It's unbelievably good....I started watching the first night thinking that there were only four episodes.  Then I discovered that it actually runs Sun-Thurs this week also.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Posts: 9,294
    I'm still behind, completed the first three episodes. I work a lot of nights so I catch up during the mornings/
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  • Wma31394Wma31394 Posts: 3,045
    Yea fantastic doc. Zimmerman featured in a few of the episodes from last week.



    brianlux said:
    For anyone younger than 55, I would say probably a good idea.  But having lived through that era, I have a really hard time watching or reading anything about that war.  The only exception in recent years was reading Bill Zimmerman's excellent book, Troublemaker.



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  • dmaradona10dmaradona10 Posts: 915
    The statistic that was staggering was the U.S. military had 26 million helicopter sorties or runs throughout the war. That's insane. 
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  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    Just watched the second episode. The South Vietnamese dictatorship was horrific, yet they painted the Communists as the big bad wolf?!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,031
    Wma31394 said:
    Yea fantastic doc. Zimmerman featured in a few of the episodes from last week.



    brianlux said:
    For anyone younger than 55, I would say probably a good idea.  But having lived through that era, I have a really hard time watching or reading anything about that war.  The only exception in recent years was reading Bill Zimmerman's excellent book, Troublemaker.



    Great!  I'm not one to eagerly revisit that era but knowing Zimmerman is in it, I might have to go for it after all!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Posts: 9,294
    dmaradona10 said:
    The statistic that was staggering was the U.S. military had 26 million helicopter sorties or runs throughout the war. That's insane. 
    I was thinking that also while watching the first half of episode four.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Posts: 9,294
    I finished this last week, which is impressive for me to watch all 10 episodes that quickly. I guess for someone of my age (I was born in 1979), you get a basic idea of it from how it's portrayed in episodes of tv shows and movies, the two that stand out are the Wonder Years when Wayne's friend returns from serving and how it's portrayed in Forest Gump. But you don't get the full scope of how much it altered lives until you watch something like this and hear from several people who were there, whether they were drafted or signed up because they thought it was the right thing only to realize it wasn't.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited October 2017
    I'm about halfway through, and it's fantastic, as expected. Ken Burns is the best. I have never learned about Vietnam in such extreme detail before... it was an even worse clusterfuck than I thought it was, and I thought it was really bad. Jesus.
    Imagine being in a battle with a gun you knew might not even work. :fearful:

    I am struck by these recorded phone conversations of Johnson's. Wow. He was a bigger a-hole than I realized. He even got into a fake news mindset eventually, as things got worse with the war. The lies that the US government/military told are disturbing, but unsurprising, given all the poor decisions they had to try and hide.

    Great soundtrack!!!!
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited October 2017
    Wow. Just got to the part about Nixon's lovely little act of treason right before he was elected. I did not know about that... or forgot it. I also didn't realize that that info was something Nixon also wanted to steal before Watergate was triggered.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • EnkiduEnkidu Posts: 2,996
    I just saw this thread.  I watched all 18 hours and thought it was incredible.  My memory of Vietnam (I was in junior high) was that it was bad and people were over there killing babies. Stop the war, stop the war!  But I wore a POW bracelet.  I knew Vietnam was more complicated than that, so it was interesting to see something so in depth.  What a complicated mess.  

    I'm re-reading a fabulous novel - the man who wrote it was on the documentary, Karl Marlantes - Matterhorn.  It's about Vietnam, duh, and it's wonderful.  
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,022
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.
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  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.
    What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited October 2017
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    PJ_Soul said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.
    I've just googled and discovered they abandoned the chronological narrative for that, just starting episode 8 now
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,022
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.
    What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came
    It’s in the larger context of how the civilians were treated and the multiple atrocities that were committed and the perspectives of the GIs that were indoctrinated into dehumanizing the Vietnamese and were sick of losing their friends. Also speaks to the aftermath and the court martial. Some of the most haunting recollections from US service members.
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.
    I've just googled and discovered they abandoned the chronological narrative for that, just starting episode 8 now
    They did that because it was never reported on until way after it happened, so the film seems to go by order of when everyone found out about it instead of when it actually happened (if memory serves).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    edited October 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said: 
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities
    It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.
    What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came
    It’s in the larger context of how the civilians were treated and the multiple atrocities that were committed and the perspectives of the GIs that were indoctrinated into dehumanizing the Vietnamese and were sick of losing their friends. Also speaks to the aftermath and the court martial. Some of the most haunting recollections from US service members.
    I imagine so. I'm glad he wasn't afraid to tackle it as up to this point it has really been an astounding documentary series. These are the issues and events that most need examination and discussion, unsavoury and distressing as people may find them
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    I finished the series yesterday. Well, wow. It definitely didn't disappoint me and my high expectations. It brought me to tears over and over... the thoughtfulness of the vets being interviewed throughout is really what made this documentary special. I have never heard so much from the vets; they came home to hostility and mostly shut their traps since then. I think the way this film opened up the topic in ways many haven't experienced before is very special, making this particular Burns film a highlight of his incredible career IMO.

    Watching this has also given me the Ken Burns itch. :lol: It's made me want to go back and rewatch all his other awesome films, and his brother's masterpiece New York: A Documentary Film as well (that one seems impossible to find for streaming online - I think I'm going to have to buy the DVD set).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    Oh, btw, one of my biggest takeaways was, "Jesus Christ, they haven't learned a fucking thing."
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    The photos and videos are incredible, some amazing journalism was done during that war
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    I'll never fucking understand though, what kind of animal can put a gun to a child's head and blow their brains out. I don't care how tough a time these American soldiers had, nothing can ever justify or excuse such barbarity
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Posts: 2,682
    According to a poll, 58% of people thought the Kent State killings were justified. WTF?! I just don't even know what to say
  • EnkiduEnkidu Posts: 2,996
    PJ_Soul said:
    Oh, btw, one of my biggest takeaways was, "Jesus Christ, they haven't learned a fucking thing."
    No kidding.  The politics of it all was awful.  So many things were interesting - I was fascinated by the North Vietnamese POV.  
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