The Vietnam War on PBS

cp3iverson

^^^damn.  Glad u didnt go, Brian. 

brianlux

cp3iverson said:

^^^damn.  Glad u didnt go, Brian. 

Thanks, cp, me too!

rgambs

What's crazy is that the volunteer rate for Vietnam was higher than WW2!

Gern Blansten

rgambs said:

What's crazy is that the volunteer rate for Vietnam was higher than WW2!

Someone made a comment on the Thursday night show about how the WWII generation keeps getting referred to as "the greatest generation" and how that seems to suggest that the Vietnam vets weren't as brave, etc.

I can't disagree with that.

PJ_Soul

I'm recording the whole thing, and will binge watch it. I am extremely excited - I am a huge Ken Burns doc fan.

Gern Blansten

PJ_Soul said:

I'm recording the whole thing, and will binge watch it. I am extremely excited - I am a huge Ken Burns doc fan.

It's unbelievably good....I started watching the first night thinking that there were only four episodes.  Then I discovered that it actually runs Sun-Thurs this week also.

xavier mcdaniel

I'm still behind, completed the first three episodes. I work a lot of nights so I catch up during the mornings/

Wma31394

Yea fantastic doc. Zimmerman featured in a few of the episodes from last week.



brianlux said:

For anyone younger than 55, I would say probably a good idea.  But having lived through that era, I have a really hard time watching or reading anything about that war.  The only exception in recent years was reading Bill Zimmerman's excellent book, Troublemaker.

dmaradona10

The statistic that was staggering was the U.S. military had 26 million helicopter sorties or runs throughout the war. That's insane. 

jnimhaoileoin

Just watched the second episode. The South Vietnamese dictatorship was horrific, yet they painted the Communists as the big bad wolf?!

brianlux

Wma31394 said:

Yea fantastic doc. Zimmerman featured in a few of the episodes from last week.



brianlux said:

For anyone younger than 55, I would say probably a good idea.  But having lived through that era, I have a really hard time watching or reading anything about that war.  The only exception in recent years was reading Bill Zimmerman's excellent book, Troublemaker.

Great!  I'm not one to eagerly revisit that era but knowing Zimmerman is in it, I might have to go for it after all!

xavier mcdaniel

dmaradona10 said:

The statistic that was staggering was the U.S. military had 26 million helicopter sorties or runs throughout the war. That's insane. 

I was thinking that also while watching the first half of episode four.

xavier mcdaniel

I finished this last week, which is impressive for me to watch all 10 episodes that quickly. I guess for someone of my age (I was born in 1979), you get a basic idea of it from how it's portrayed in episodes of tv shows and movies, the two that stand out are the Wonder Years when Wayne's friend returns from serving and how it's portrayed in Forest Gump. But you don't get the full scope of how much it altered lives until you watch something like this and hear from several people who were there, whether they were drafted or signed up because they thought it was the right thing only to realize it wasn't.

PJ_Soul

I'm about halfway through, and it's fantastic, as expected. Ken Burns is the best. I have never learned about Vietnam in such extreme detail before... it was an even worse clusterfuck than I thought it was, and I thought it was really bad. Jesus.
Imagine being in a battle with a gun you knew might not even work.

I am struck by these recorded phone conversations of Johnson's. Wow. He was a bigger a-hole than I realized. He even got into a fake news mindset eventually, as things got worse with the war. The lies that the US government/military told are disturbing, but unsurprising, given all the poor decisions they had to try and hide.

Great soundtrack!!!!

PJ_Soul

Wow. Just got to the part about Nixon's lovely little act of treason right before he was elected. I did not know about that... or forgot it. I also didn't realize that that info was something Nixon also wanted to steal before Watergate was triggered.

Enkidu

I just saw this thread.  I watched all 18 hours and thought it was incredible.  My memory of Vietnam (I was in junior high) was that it was bad and people were over there killing babies. Stop the war, stop the war!  But I wore a POW bracelet.  I knew Vietnam was more complicated than that, so it was interesting to see something so in depth.  What a complicated mess.  

I'm re-reading a fabulous novel - the man who wrote it was on the documentary, Karl Marlantes - Matterhorn.  It's about Vietnam, duh, and it's wonderful.  

jnimhaoileoin

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

Halifax2TheMax

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.

jnimhaoileoin

Halifax2TheMax said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.

What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came

PJ_Soul

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.

jnimhaoileoin

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.

I've just googled and discovered they abandoned the chronological narrative for that, just starting episode 8 now

Halifax2TheMax

jnimhaoileoin said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.

What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came

It’s in the larger context of how the civilians were treated and the multiple atrocities that were committed and the perspectives of the GIs that were indoctrinated into dehumanizing the Vietnamese and were sick of losing their friends. Also speaks to the aftermath and the court martial. Some of the most haunting recollections from US service members.

PJ_Soul

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

Keep watching - it's thoroughly addressed. And was awful.

I've just googled and discovered they abandoned the chronological narrative for that, just starting episode 8 now

They did that because it was never reported on until way after it happened, so the film seems to go by order of when everyone found out about it instead of when it actually happened (if memory serves).

jnimhaoileoin

Halifax2TheMax said: 

jnimhaoileoin said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

I've been really impressed with the series so far, which made it all the more surprising to me that they chose to omit any reference to the My Lai massacre. I dread to think that the reason for that might be that it was just one of many such atrocities

It’s portrayed in detail and surprisingly so.

What do you mean? I watched the episode dealing with 1968 and it wasn't even mentioned in passing. I was waiting for it and it never came

It’s in the larger context of how the civilians were treated and the multiple atrocities that were committed and the perspectives of the GIs that were indoctrinated into dehumanizing the Vietnamese and were sick of losing their friends. Also speaks to the aftermath and the court martial. Some of the most haunting recollections from US service members.

I imagine so. I'm glad he wasn't afraid to tackle it as up to this point it has really been an astounding documentary series. These are the issues and events that most need examination and discussion, unsavoury and distressing as people may find them

PJ_Soul

I finished the series yesterday. Well, wow. It definitely didn't disappoint me and my high expectations. It brought me to tears over and over... the thoughtfulness of the vets being interviewed throughout is really what made this documentary special. I have never heard so much from the vets; they came home to hostility and mostly shut their traps since then. I think the way this film opened up the topic in ways many haven't experienced before is very special, making this particular Burns film a highlight of his incredible career IMO.

Watching this has also given me the Ken Burns itch. It's made me want to go back and rewatch all his other awesome films, and his brother's masterpiece New York: A Documentary Film as well (that one seems impossible to find for streaming online - I think I'm going to have to buy the DVD set).

PJ_Soul

Oh, btw, one of my biggest takeaways was, "Jesus Christ, they haven't learned a fucking thing."

jnimhaoileoin

The photos and videos are incredible, some amazing journalism was done during that war

jnimhaoileoin

I'll never fucking understand though, what kind of animal can put a gun to a child's head and blow their brains out. I don't care how tough a time these American soldiers had, nothing can ever justify or excuse such barbarity

jnimhaoileoin

According to a poll, 58% of people thought the Kent State killings were justified. WTF?! I just don't even know what to say

Enkidu

PJ_Soul said:

Oh, btw, one of my biggest takeaways was, "Jesus Christ, they haven't learned a fucking thing."

No kidding.  The politics of it all was awful.  So many things were interesting - I was fascinated by the North Vietnamese POV.