Wildfire(s) Out West

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 
    I agree.   Paradise and Magalia will probably be rebuilt.  I'm not at all sure that is a wise idea.

    But of course right now the emphasis should be on helping those who lost everything. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,855
    brianlux said:
    Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 
    I agree.   Paradise and Magalia will probably be rebuilt.  I'm not at all sure that is a wise idea.

    But of course right now the emphasis should be on helping those who lost everything. 
    Agree everyone’s safety is the first priority.   
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    The man is an utter disgrace.  He probably said this because he thinks California is populated by a bunch of commies. 

    Here's how California voted over all in 2016:

    Here's how Butte County where the Camp Fire is raging and whose people will not receive assistance from the feds/ Trump voted in 2016:
    He's turning his back on his own supporters.

    I hope first of all his comments/actions  will be overturned by more sensible, caring people in congress and, secondly, I hope some of his supports will start to see what a foolish idea it is to support him. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,012
    I read that federal aid was approved Friday.  Hopefully everyone gets the help they need.  A fire loss is devastating. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    Jason P said:
    I read that federal aid was approved Friday.  Hopefully everyone gets the help they need.  A fire loss is devastating. 
    I hope so and if so that's great.  Still, what Trump said, especially considering the timing, that was unforgivable.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Trump has said an awful lot of dumb shit.  But threatening to cut federal money to California.  He knows he can do this, its politics to this clown.  He doesn't need California to get re-elected.  For someone who claims not to be a politician, he seems to know where is support comes from.
    Give Peas A Chance…
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • I know that I had this before and I will say it again.

    Why there isn't a small fleet of "super soaker" planes dropping water on the fires is just crazy.

    It's been a problem for years.  There should be a dozen of these planes dropping water down simultaneously.
  • I found this article so apparently they are trying to get a small fleet of planes together...
    https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article215976680.html
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,676
    You know, the way he made the comment was really stupid and lashing out.  However, these fires keep happening, and I think it's a good conversation to have holistically on how to prevent OR where we should not develop.  I see this like talking gun control after a shooting.  It's not "too early", it's when you should be talking about it.


    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    I know that I had this before and I will say it again.

    Why there isn't a small fleet of "super soaker" planes dropping water on the fires is just crazy.

    It's been a problem for years.  There should be a dozen of these planes dropping water down simultaneously.
    In the midst of a large fire here in CA years ago, I saw a fire chief on the news say that airplanes dropping water on this big fires do very little to slow them down and that they are mainly flown for public PR.  I don't know how true that is but it made me wonder. 

    The problem is that these fires usually get this bad due to the combination of western aridity, long stretches of drought that are common in the west and high winds.  Most areas out here have not had rain for well over 200 days.  When all of those factors are combined, the fire spreads rapidly and with shifting winds, erratically.  At one point in the Camp Fire, it was spreading the size of one football field every second.  And these fires are so intense, they form their own weather patterns. 


    There is just no humanly way to stop that kind of force of nature.

    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    You know, the way he made the comment was really stupid and lashing out.  However, these fires keep happening, and I think it's a good conversation to have holistically on how to prevent OR where we should not develop.  I see this like talking gun control after a shooting.  It's not "too early", it's when you should be talking about it.


    Trump was way out of line saying what he said.  He had his facts all wrong and when tens of thousands of people are without a home or even a home town, you don't do that.  I have heard very conservative fire officials talk about how misguided and ill times his statement was. 

    Trump said, “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

    First of all, he is completely wrong about the fires in southern California.  The Pasadena Fire Association tweeted: “Mr. President, with all due respect, you are wrong. The fires in So. Cal are urban interface fires and have NOTHING to do with forest management. Come to SoCal and learn the facts & help the victims.”

    Secondly, it is the feds who have diverted money from forest management, not the state of California.

    Thirdly, the timing of his statement was just WRONG.

    Others have pointed out that withdrawing federal funding  has been likened to defunding the National Hurricane Center until the hurricanes go away.

    Here is more on why what Trump said is all wrong:






    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,676
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    Sorry is I misunderstood some of what you said but RIGHT NOW many people are out of a home, have lost everything and have no home to return to.  I know some of these people.  My wife knows people from Paradise who have not been found.  They may be dead.  So yeah, right now what is needed is to help these people.  I will not argue this with you any further at this time.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,676
    brianlux said:
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    Sorry is I misunderstood some of what you said but RIGHT NOW many people are out of a home, have lost everything and have no home to return to.  I know some of these people.  My wife knows people from Paradise who have not been found.  They may be dead.  So yeah, right now what is needed is to help these people.  I will not argue this with you any further at this time.
    You seem to be taking this personal.  Not my intent.  I think right now is the time to talk about why this keeps happening and let those with the true understanding of the situation provide leadership in making changes necessary to make this better moving forward. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,296
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    You ready to have a good conversation about climate change?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    Trump's blaming forest mismanagement for the fires in the west is misguided, uneducated and overly simplistic.   The main causes of these fires are climate change, humans being irresponsible about fire safety, a century of natural fire suppression and (in the southern part of the state) the Santa Ana winds. 

    Trump says, "we need to cut down more trees".  Oh really?  Here is a photo taken from space in a very large area just above Paradise, California:


    Every one of those tan areas is a clear cut.  So what should we do, Mr. Trump?  Cut down every goddamn tree in the west?


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 26,254
    brianlux said:
    Trump's blaming forest mismanagement for the fires in the west is misguided, uneducated and overly simplistic.   The main causes of these fires are climate change, humans being irresponsible about fire safety, a century of natural fire suppression and (in the southern part of the state) the Santa Ana winds. 

    Trump says, "we need to cut down more trees".  Oh really?  Here is a photo taken from space in a very large area just above Paradise, California:


    Every one of those tan areas is a clear cut.  So what should we do, Mr. Trump?  Cut down every goddamn tree in the west?


    Yep and build Condos and high rises that's all he cares about concrete and sheat rock panels ...
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,676
    dignin said:
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    You ready to have a good conversation about climate change?
    Yup it’s part of the discussion for sure
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    I'm glad people are speaking out.  Trump's tweet was heartless, ill-timed,  irresponsible and based on ignorance.  Some "leader".
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,884
    Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.
    That is what an Aussie summer in the south is like, oven heat.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,589
    Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.
    Good thoughts for you curmudgeoness.  Be safe. 

    We're in the Sierra Foothills (at about the same elevation as Paradise/Magalia) and, like most areas of the state, have had little to no rain in over 200 days with low humidity- but not as low as 9%.  Seems like most of us here all up and down California are on pins and needles.  I sure hope winter brings some relief.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • curmudgeonesscurmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capitalPosts: 2,884
    brianlux said:
    Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.
    Good thoughts for you curmudgeoness.  Be safe. 

    We're in the Sierra Foothills (at about the same elevation as Paradise/Magalia) and, like most areas of the state, have had little to no rain in over 200 days with low humidity- but not as low as 9%.  Seems like most of us here all up and down California are on pins and needles.  I sure hope winter brings some relief.

    I think we're pretty safe down here; I'm in a coastal area. The smoke is making its way down here, though. At the gym tonight, I could smell smoke, and I'm smelling it now at home, too.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    edited November 2018
    They claim the smoke is making its way to Detroit, I'm 30 minutes from Detroit.  Doubt it would be very thick smoke?
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 8,786
    I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

    But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
    You make a good point, but as a counter argument, no one can actively have a conversation about how to prevent said emergency from occurring again when it is still actively happening. It would be akin to having a gun control conversation while the active shooter was still active. Let's get people to safety and reign in the devastation before deciding where we should and shouldn't build new homes.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,012

    I

    they said smoke hit the gulf steam and could technically be in the Midwest/ Detroit... but it’s still up in the Gulf Stream.  Lots of people think they can smell it, but meteorologists say it’s in their minds. 
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