People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Clinton spent over a billion dollars to gain a job that wouldn't pay a fraction of that.
I can't support that.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,284
People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
You're still making assumptions about those of us who vote third party that are presumptuous and based on your status quo view of government. I'm good with my viewpoint, you're good with yours. Fine by me.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
They'll never get to that level if... wait for it... YOU DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I'm not so sure why that's so hard to understand. That's exactly why I vote third party - so they have representation.
Personally, I think if you continue voting for either of the two major parties, you're a bigger part of the problem than any third party voter in this day and age. You send a message of complacency that both Republicans and Democrats can continue to make us argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter (or at least shouldn't matter) while they ALL turn their backs and fuck each and every one of us over.
I'm sorry but if anyone in here thinks ANY democrat or republican running for Congress or President has the interest of the People in mind, you're sadly mistaken.
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited June 2017
Not to mention if certain thresholds are met it can mean more funding, debate participation, more media coverage.
Of course the two major parties do everything they can to stop that, they actually work well together for once. Voter suppression, disputing ballot signatures, making laws that make it harder for a third party to get on the ballot, etc. I suppose if you want to remain in power and keep the charade going they must do that to ensure survival.
People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
They'll never get to that level if... wait for it... YOU DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I'm not so sure why that's so hard to understand. That's exactly why I vote third party - so they have representation.
Personally, I think if you continue voting for either of the two major parties, you're a bigger part of the problem than any third party voter in this day and age. You send a message of complacency that both Republicans and Democrats can continue to make us argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter (or at least shouldn't matter) while they ALL turn their backs and fuck each and every one of us over.
I'm sorry but if anyone in here thinks ANY democrat or republican running for Congress or President has the interest of the People in mind, you're sadly mistaken.
Yup. Another frequent 3rd party voter here. I vote Dem, I vote Rep, and I vote 3rd party depending on the race / candidates. Hyper-partisanship is a big problem currently. It is the hyper-partisans who have trouble understanding why things aren't working. I know Republicans in Congress get accused of putting party over country, and I've made that same accusation toward some of them. i also think that voters who continue to support failing party politics by voting for shitting candidates just because they have a D by their name also put party over country. Some of us 3rd party voters have a pretty deep understanding of how government works. And we think it works pretty poorly. Mostly because of established and institutionalized party politics played by the 2 majors.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Not to mention if certain thresholds are met it can mean more funding, debate participation, more media coverage.
Of course the two major parties do everything they can to stop that, they actually work well together for once. Voter suppression, disputing ballot signatures, making laws that make it harder for a third party to get on the ballot, etc. I suppose if you want to remain in power and keep the charade going they must do that to ensure survival.
I totally agree with you on this, unsung.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not to mention if certain thresholds are met it can mean more funding, debate participation, more media coverage.
Of course the two major parties do everything they can to stop that, they actually work well together for once. Voter suppression, disputing ballot signatures, making laws that make it harder for a third party to get on the ballot, etc. I suppose if you want to remain in power and keep the charade going they must do that to ensure survival.
I totally agree with you on this, unsung.
You should because he's very right. I see first hand every day the lengths both parties go to in the name of keeping their power. That includes their attacks on outsider candidates in their own party for getting on the primary ballot. There are many things they work together on but will never see the light of day.
Not to mention if certain thresholds are met it can mean more funding, debate participation, more media coverage.
Of course the two major parties do everything they can to stop that, they actually work well together for once. Voter suppression, disputing ballot signatures, making laws that make it harder for a third party to get on the ballot, etc. I suppose if you want to remain in power and keep the charade going they must do that to ensure survival.
I totally agree with you on this, unsung.
You should because he's very right. I see first hand every day the lengths both parties go to in the name of keeping their power. That includes their attacks on outsider candidates in their own party for getting on the primary ballot. There are many things they work together on but will never see the light of day.
It was nice to be in agreement with our unsung for a change.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,284
I just watched K-PAX. I wish Prote would come back and give us some
advice. All the division, the anger, the pointless bickering.
Prote, where are you? We need you, now!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
They'll never get to that level if... wait for it... YOU DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I'm not so sure why that's so hard to understand. That's exactly why I vote third party - so they have representation.
Personally, I think if you continue voting for either of the two major parties, you're a bigger part of the problem than any third party voter in this day and age. You send a message of complacency that both Republicans and Democrats can continue to make us argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter (or at least shouldn't matter) while they ALL turn their backs and fuck each and every one of us over.
I'm sorry but if anyone in here thinks ANY democrat or republican running for Congress or President has the interest of the People in mind, you're sadly mistaken.
Yeah, that all sounds good for a pat on the back at the end of the day. And then we end up with a Bush Presidency and the fun and games are over. And then some don't learn the lesson and we up with a damn Trump Presidency.
It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not a moral victory, it's Trump as POTUS.
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Amen.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,284
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
In general, Democrats are certainly more environmentally active and socially conscious than Republicans but they are equally tied to corporation that are not. Your fooling yourself if you think the Democratic party, as it stands today, will do enough to protect our environment well enough to insure your kid (or kids) will live in a world environmentally suited for human (and other mammal) life. And time is running out. I'm tired of hearing "Well, the Democrats are better than Republicans on environment. We just need to do a little better." Oh really? And when will this happen? At the current rate, not nearly soon enough. Can you admit this? Can you afford to keep waiting to "do a little better" when that's not enough?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Well, you've twisted the false premise that is being argued: "When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : 'I don't understand how US government works '."
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Why is there no "breaking news" on CNN about this?
probably because it is a sunday night, and not much is known about the accusations. wait until tomorrow and it will be big news for a few hours until trumpelstiltskin tweets something stupid again.
further a quick google search will reveal this story isnt exactly breaking news. other stories on it were posted back in march?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
People who vote 3rd party have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our 2 party system works. 3rd party always has been, and always will be the shit sandwich of any US election.
As long as there is an electoral college, I disagree. I voted for Stein not because I thought she had a chance in hell of getting elected but because I knew Clinton had the California delegates in the bag and I was able to vote third party with a clear conscience and make a little statement- only the ever so tiniest of statements to be sure, but a statement nonetheless. If enough others had done the same, the message would have rung clear: some of us are sick and tired of the status quo... or worse. Clinton is status quo (strong ties to corporations that make huge amounts of money without producing anything useful) and Trump is, well, we all know that one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No mention of the other 2 branches that are supposed to keep the Executive in check. Now we are stuck with Gorsuch.
When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
Nice inflammatory statement there. You don't know what I do or do not know about how government works. Oh, and by the way, I've worked in government. Federal government.
But carry on with your personal attacks. Keep us divide. Right-o!
Sure I'll double down on that
When you vote a candidate runs 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : " I don't understand how US government works ".
When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board?
3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
They'll never get to that level if... wait for it... YOU DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. I'm not so sure why that's so hard to understand. That's exactly why I vote third party - so they have representation.
Personally, I think if you continue voting for either of the two major parties, you're a bigger part of the problem than any third party voter in this day and age. You send a message of complacency that both Republicans and Democrats can continue to make us argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter (or at least shouldn't matter) while they ALL turn their backs and fuck each and every one of us over.
I'm sorry but if anyone in here thinks ANY democrat or republican running for Congress or President has the interest of the People in mind, you're sadly mistaken.
Yeah, that all sounds good for a pat on the back at the end of the day. And then we end up with a Bush Presidency and the fun and games are over. And then some don't learn the lesson and we up with a damn Trump Presidency.
It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not a moral victory, it's Trump as POTUS.
3rd party voters didn't put Trump in office. Lower educated middle American voters helped to do that. And so did the DNC. Put up 2 shitty candidates as the major party choices, and you'll end up with 1 of those shitty candidates as the winner. Unfortunately the shittier of the 2 won. It isn't funny. And there isn't a moral victory. Maybe the DNC can put up Nancy Pelosi this time. She's really exerting influence and energizing the voters these days. She'll only be 80 in 2020. Or maybe the DNC can pull their heads out of their asses and get busy putting up candidates that can energize the base, have some fresh ideas, and get people out to the polls.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Well, you've twisted the false premise that is being argued: "When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : 'I don't understand how US government works '."
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
In political science, Duverger's law holds that plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system and that "the double ballot majority system and proportional representation tend to favor multipartism".
In other words,
Our system simply isn't structured that way and it was intentional. I have never seen such brazen disregard for the principles upon which our government was founded.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
There have been Presidents from six parties, including independent, so it has happened.
Or do you mean that the system is so corrupt that going forward there will not be an option to Dem or Rep?
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Well, you've twisted the false premise that is being argued: "When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : 'I don't understand how US government works '."
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
In political science, Duverger's law holds that plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system and that "the double ballot majority system and proportional representation tend to favor multipartism".
In other words,
Our system simply isn't structured that way and it was intentional. I have never seen such brazen disregard for the principles upon which our government was founded.
Sure. But you seem to think Duverger's "law" is some sort of absolute law of nature. But somehow, in this country, under this system, the progressive Republican party kicked the establishment Whig party to the curb. It can and has happened here. You are welcome to think it will never happen again because a french dude named Duverger said so. And whether or not is happens again, your premise that 3rd party voters don't understand how government works is still false. It is possible to understand very clearly how government works, and still find motivation to make it better. I'm sure the 2 major parties appreciate your enthusiastic support, though.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
There have been Presidents from six parties, including independent, so it has happened.
Or do you mean that the system is so corrupt that going forward there will not be an option to Dem or Rep?
Yes, and each time they were representative of the 2 major parties at the time. One party might replace another, but we will always trend towards a 2 party system.
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Well, you've twisted the false premise that is being argued: "When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : 'I don't understand how US government works '."
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
In political science, Duverger's law holds that plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system and that "the double ballot majority system and proportional representation tend to favor multipartism".
In other words,
Our system simply isn't structured that way and it was intentional. I have never seen such brazen disregard for the principles upon which our government was founded.
Sure. But you seem to think Duverger's "law" is some sort of absolute law of nature. But somehow, in this country, under this system, the progressive Republican party kicked the establishment Whig party to the curb. It can and has happened here. You are welcome to think it will never happen again because a french dude named Duverger said so. And whether or not is happens again, your premise that 3rd party voters don't understand how government works is still false. It is possible to understand very clearly how government works, and still find motivation to make it better. I'm sure the 2 major parties appreciate your enthusiastic support, though.
so if you have two apples, you give me one, and I give you a different apple in return, how many apples do you have?
I always hear talk everywhere from people who claim that if you're truly informed you know about how both parties are just as bad and voting for them is the real sin. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred. The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
Well, you've twisted the false premise that is being argued: "When you vote 3rd party, the only statement that gets delivered is : 'I don't understand how US government works '."
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
In political science, Duverger's law holds that plurality-rule elections (such as first past the post) structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system and that "the double ballot majority system and proportional representation tend to favor multipartism".
In other words,
Our system simply isn't structured that way and it was intentional. I have never seen such brazen disregard for the principles upon which our government was founded.
Sure. But you seem to think Duverger's "law" is some sort of absolute law of nature. But somehow, in this country, under this system, the progressive Republican party kicked the establishment Whig party to the curb. It can and has happened here. You are welcome to think it will never happen again because a french dude named Duverger said so. And whether or not is happens again, your premise that 3rd party voters don't understand how government works is still false. It is possible to understand very clearly how government works, and still find motivation to make it better. I'm sure the 2 major parties appreciate your enthusiastic support, though.
so if you have two apples, you give me one, and I give you a different apple in return, how many apples do you have?
I guess I'd have two. But is sounds like there are more than 2 apples in play.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Eliminate the level of support for entry for a Presidential debate. I bet other options would emerge.
You would have to change more than just the threshold for entry. You would have to change the way votes are counted and the way Congress is structured.
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When 3rd parties start winning seats at the state level, then they maybe they can have a seat at the big boys table. Right now they hold less than 1% of elected positions. How does one justify running for President when they can't get representation on their local Parks & Rec Board? 3rd party politics is about dividing the 2 major parties. It's an election strategy akin to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
I can't support that.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Personally, I think if you continue voting for either of the two major parties, you're a bigger part of the problem than any third party voter in this day and age. You send a message of complacency that both Republicans and Democrats can continue to make us argue over stupid shit that doesn't matter (or at least shouldn't matter) while they ALL turn their backs and fuck each and every one of us over.
I'm sorry but if anyone in here thinks ANY democrat or republican running for Congress or President has the interest of the People in mind, you're sadly mistaken.
Of course the two major parties do everything they can to stop that, they actually work well together for once. Voter suppression, disputing ballot signatures, making laws that make it harder for a third party to get on the ballot, etc. I suppose if you want to remain in power and keep the charade going they must do that to ensure survival.
Yup. Another frequent 3rd party voter here. I vote Dem, I vote Rep, and I vote 3rd party depending on the race / candidates. Hyper-partisanship is a big problem currently. It is the hyper-partisans who have trouble understanding why things aren't working. I know Republicans in Congress get accused of putting party over country, and I've made that same accusation toward some of them. i also think that voters who continue to support failing party politics by voting for shitting candidates just because they have a D by their name also put party over country. Some of us 3rd party voters have a pretty deep understanding of how government works. And we think it works pretty poorly. Mostly because of established and institutionalized party politics played by the 2 majors.
That's the exact type of language that has us at political/cultural gridlock with assholes wanting to shoot "the enemy"
You're worse than Trump just making shit up... like you had a single digit 10c number lol
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/johnny-depp-suggests-actor-assassinate-president-trump-article-1.3270476
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Prote, where are you? We need you, now!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
And then we end up with a Bush Presidency and the fun and games are over.
And then some don't learn the lesson and we up with a damn Trump Presidency.
It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not a moral victory, it's Trump as POTUS.
BULL-FUCKING-SHIT, look at the real world ramifications of a government faction in power that doesn't believe in global warming, that doesn't care about pollution, that wants to strip health care from millions of Americans to give a 30 billion dollar tax cut to the wealthiest few hundred.
The list goes on and on, if you think the parties are the same, either you aren't paying attention to what's actually occuring on the ground, or you are just refusing to accept reality.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That is the bullshit premise that caused the latest posts. You turned that false premise into something about there being no difference between the parties and they're both just as bad. Of course there are differences between the parties. And which one is worse depends on the issue. But I'm happy to make a blanket statement that the Reps are worse than the Dems for a good number of issues I care about. But that is tangential to the debate about 3rd parties. And in my case, there was absolutely no downside to voting 3rd party. My state was always going to be strong for Hillary, and 3rd party votes did not provide Trump any advantage here.
further a quick google search will reveal this story isnt exactly breaking news. other stories on it were posted back in march?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
In other words,
Our system simply isn't structured that way and it was intentional. I have never seen such brazen disregard for the principles upon which our government was founded.
Or do you mean that the system is so corrupt that going forward there will not be an option to Dem or Rep?
The law had two parts:
"the double ballot majority system and proportional representation tend to favor multipartism"
You would have to change more than just the threshold for entry. You would have to change the way votes are counted and the way Congress is structured.
In other words, re-write the Constitution.