Off the deep end... (U.S. pulls out of Paris Agreement)

brianlux

Just how crazy is this?  I can't quit come up with the right words.  Help me out here.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/01/donald-trump-confirms-us-will-quit-paris-climate-deal

benjs

On lighter news, now Trump and Rick Salomon have something in common... Both pulled out of Paris. 

cincybearcat

It's just stupid.  On all accounts. Not only for the obvious, but Trump has just given over SOOOOOO much of USA's power/influence to China.  This is a strategically stupid move.  Of all his promises that he is unable to get going...I wish this was one.  I'd rather have that big wall.

MayDay10

Steve Bannon is driving the direction of this country.  

Halifax2TheMax

MayDay10 said:

Steve Bannon is driving the direction of this country.  

And there couldn't be a better person doing so, seeing what a great guy Steve-O is.

dignin

benjs said:

On lighter news, now Trump and Rick Salomon have something in common... Both pulled out of Paris. 

brianlux

I keeping hoping this is just a bad dream but then I'm awake again and apparently it's real. 

RiotZact

brianlux said:

I keeping hoping this is just a bad dream but then I'm awake again and apparently it's real. 

Welcome to the next four years of your life. What a shit show.

HesCalledDyer

There's a word that I've reserved pretty much for girlfriends only, but I find myself using it with regards to Trump almost daily:

UNFUCKINGREAL.

KC138045

Someone at work told me we can not pull out until 2020 despite what he said yesterday.  I don't know enough about it if this is true or not.  Can someone confirm this?

brianlux

HesCalledDyer said:

There's a word that I've reserved pretty much for girlfriends only, but I find myself using it with regards to Trump almost daily:

UNFUCKINGREAL.

That's about as good a word as any I can think of.

Not only is this going to wreak further havoc on environment and the well being of future generations, in the near term it puts us in company with only two other countries in the entire world, Syria and Nicaragua, who are non-participants in the agreement and isolates us from all the rest.  Bad move, Trump.  Worse than bad,  Yes, UNFUCKINGREAL.

RYME

In 15 years we will all be at the bottom of the ocean.  Just like Bikini Bottom.
They better start working on really good waterproof cell phones so we can all still stay in touch.  I'm serious this is terrible. They should relocate the Statue of Liberty to St.Louis because the Mississippi River will probably be the East Coast after a while and the rest of us will be singing our campfire songs and texting and posting commentary from the bottom of the ocean. I think the West Coast might end up being the Colorado River so to make plans so that Billings Montana will be the next Seattle. I'm serious I don't like this terrible idea terrible agreement terrible withdrawal.

https://youtu.be/sTbc2NeErnU

Bentleyspop

KC138045 said:

Someone at work told me we can not pull out until 2020 despite what he said yesterday.  I don't know enough about it if this is true or not.  Can someone confirm this?

Officially we can't  be out till November 4, 2020.
The day after the next presidential election!

CM189191

PJ_Soul

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

PJ_Soul

CM189191 said:

Right?!?!

HesCalledDyer

PJ_Soul said:

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

Exactly.  It's not just an environmental issue, it affects so much more than that in the long run.  In fact, economic experts are even saying this is actually worse for the economy of the US than it is the global climate.

brianlux

HesCalledDyer said:

PJ_Soul said:

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

Exactly.  It's not just an environmental issue, it affects so much more than that in the long run.  In fact, economic experts are even saying this is actually worse for the economy of the US than it is the global climate.

PJ_S, Dyer, excellent points, thank you! 

CM189191 said:

I love this, so funny, sad and true!  I've had it on my pc's photo slide show for about a year.

brianlux

RYME said:

In 15 years we will all be at the bottom of the ocean.  Just like Bikini Bottom.
They better start working on really good waterproof cell phones so we can all still stay in touch.  I'm serious this is terrible. They should relocate the Statue of Liberty to St.Louis because the Mississippi River will probably be the East Coast after a while and the rest of us will be singing our campfire songs and texting and posting commentary from the bottom of the ocean. I think the West Coast might end up being the Colorado River so to make plans so that Billings Montana will be the next Seattle. I'm serious I don't like this terrible idea terrible agreement terrible withdrawal.

https://youtu.be/sTbc2NeErnU

I hear you, RYME!  And to think there are island countries that will be submerged for a LONG time.

PJ_Soul

HesCalledDyer said:

PJ_Soul said:

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

Exactly.  It's not just an environmental issue, it affects so much more than that in the long run.  In fact, economic experts are even saying this is actually worse for the economy of the US than it is the global climate.

It's almost like he's just doing it out of spite.

Kat

He's doing it so you won't be talking about Russia. 
It has far-reaching consequences for sure but it has a purpose for him and he couldn't care less what it does to the country. I firmly believe this. :(

HesCalledDyer

Kat said:

He's doing it so you won't be talking about Russia. 
It has far-reaching consequences for sure but it has a purpose for him and he couldn't care less what it does to the country. I firmly believe this. :(

You're definitely not alone in that thought.

PJ_Soul

HesCalledDyer said:

Kat said:

He's doing it so you won't be talking about Russia. 
It has far-reaching consequences for sure but it has a purpose for him and he couldn't care less what it does to the country. I firmly believe this. :(

You're definitely not alone in that thought.

Definitely not. However, I don't really think he wouldn't have done this if the Russia issue didn't exist.... Is there something suggesting that he would not have withdrawn from the Paris Agreement if the whole Russia thing never happened? Trump has been blowing hot air about how climate change is a myth for a very long time now, and that was kind of part of his platform during his campaign, and his ridiculous decision seems illogically related to his crazy version of "America first" and "making America great again". So, while I'm sure he is very aware of the relatively great timing of this, I don't have a reason to think the Russia problem actually dictated this decision in the long run. I mean, pretty much every cuckoo bananas thing that Trump does acts as a distraction from the Russia problem.

brianlux

Kat said:

He's doing it so you won't be talking about Russia. 
It has far-reaching consequences for sure but it has a purpose for him and he couldn't care less what it does to the country. I firmly believe this. :(

I agree, he couldn't care less what this does to the country or the whole world for that matter. 

But regarding Russia, here is where I have been having some difficulty.  I haven't read anything that looks like solid proof that Russia interfered with the presidential election.  I wish I could say I have because a lot of people I very much respect believe it to be true.  In saying all this, some of you will assume I'm reading too much right wing propaganda.  Actually, no, my doubts come from reading multiple sources including some that are left leaning, i.e. Kunstler, NY Times, even Obama.  I think it is harmful to talk with dead certainty about this yet with no sure proof to back it up.

OK, so now I've made some of you angry.  Discuss with me, even argue if you have to, but don't hate me!  I'm sorry! 

EdsonNascimento

There was no requirements of this agreement. He could have accomplished the same exact thing by not doing anything with regard to the actual agreement. At least he is up front about what he is doing. But, you folks should all learn the actual facts of what's going on rather than using red herrings. You are actually playing right into what Trump is trying to do (and it is not to divert from Russia - the media is adept at handling multiple things when they have axes to grind). However, you're focused on an agreement that had no real effect.

If anything, it has brought more attention to the topic. However, the US can still do what it wants to do (As it could within the agreement), Companies can still do what they want to do (Aside from what the US gov't regulates them to do).  And BTW, the formal exit coincides with the next election. So, he's done you a favor.  He's removed us from an agreement that has no requirements to do anything, thus bringing the issue into the light for a time now, and then if the candidates of the time see fit could be a central component of a Presidential campaign.  What's not to like about that if this is your issue?

So, the removal from the agreement has no real impact.  The actions related to it do, but as I said - he could have done that with the agreement still in place. 

I mean - how stupid that Elon Musk leaves his advisory board b/c of this - so, now he will have more to say in the Trump Administration?   The fact is Musk didn't need to be on that committee anyway, so this was probably just a convenient out for him. But, folks have gone completely nuts reacting to stuff that has no meaning.

I'm sure most of you still believe your Queen when she says her loss had everything to do with everyone and everything else except her.....

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Kat said:

He's doing it so you won't be talking about Russia. 
It has far-reaching consequences for sure but it has a purpose for him and he couldn't care less what it does to the country. I firmly believe this. :(

I agree, he couldn't care less what this does to the country or the whole world for that matter. 

But regarding Russia, here is where I have been having some difficulty.  I haven't read anything that looks like solid proof that Russia interfered with the presidential election.  I wish I could say I have because a lot of people I very much respect believe it to be true.  In saying all this, some of you will assume I'm reading too much right wing propaganda.  Actually, no, my doubts come from reading multiple sources including some that are left leaning, i.e. Kunstler, NY Times, even Obama.  I think it is harmful to talk with dead certainty about this yet with no sure proof to back it up.

OK, so now I've made some of you angry.  Discuss with me, even argue if you have to, but don't hate me!  I'm sorry! 

That is why they are investigating it and having people testify. To gather evidence/proof. Most people strongly believe (or know but can't say yet) that all that happened... but we're all still waiting for the investigation to play out.

EdsonNascimento

PJ_Soul said:

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

How has he screwed over the US? 

If the US is isolated and not an international leader anymore by doing this, then shouldn't it not matter?   You guys need to focus on the issue and not the person. 

RYME

I've got some ocean front property in Arizona, from my front door you can see the sea.  I've got some ocean front property in Arizona, I hope they throw the Golden Gate in free.

brianlux

EdsonNascimento said:

There was no requirements of this agreement. He could have accomplished the same exact thing by not doing anything with regard to the actual agreement. At least he is up front about what he is doing. But, you folks should all learn the actual facts of what's going on rather than using red herrings. You are actually playing right into what Trump is trying to do (and it is not to divert from Russia - the media is adept at handling multiple things when they have axes to grind). However, you're focused on an agreement that had no real effect.

If anything, it has brought more attention to the topic. However, the US can still do what it wants to do (As it could within the agreement), Companies can still do what they want to do (Aside from what the US gov't regulates them to do).  And BTW, the formal exit coincides with the next election. So, he's done you a favor.  He's removed us from an agreement that has no requirements to do anything, thus bringing the issue into the light for a time now, and then if the candidates of the time see fit could be a central component of a Presidential campaign.  What's not to like about that if this is your issue?

So, the removal from the agreement has no real impact.  The actions related to it do, but as I said - he could have done that with the agreement still in place. 

I mean - how stupid that Elon Musk leaves his advisory board b/c of this - so, now he will have more to say in the Trump Administration?   The fact is Musk didn't need to be on that committee anyway, so this was probably just a convenient out for him. But, folks have gone completely nuts reacting to stuff that has no meaning.

I'm sure most of you still believe your Queen when she says her loss had everything to do with everyone and everything else except her.....

An impressive argument, Edison.  If you're correct (and your logic seems solid to me) this could turn into an unintentional plus for environmental concerns and we'd do well to take a plus in that regard just about any way we can get it.

brianlux

The other thing to remember in all this is that the Paris Agreement itself is not enough to stem anthropogenic global warming.  This gets into a long and elaborate scientific discussion but there's still plenty of good information to back this on NOAA, ucsusa.org, 350.org and realclimate.org, all solidly science based sites.

PJ_Soul

EdsonNascimento said:

PJ_Soul said:

Embarrassing. Trump is screwing America over with this one. Just in terms of foreign relations, this is idiotic, but it's also a huge mistake economically and socially, long term. Trump has essentially declared that America is no longer interested in moving forward with the rest of the world, let alone interested in being an international leader. This decision is incredibly isolating for the US.

How has he screwed over the US? 

If the US is isolated and not an international leader anymore by doing this, then shouldn't it not matter?   You guys need to focus on the issue and not the person. 

I am focusing on the issue and not the person, and said what the issues are. I'm not sure how you figured from that post that I was focusing on the person and not the issue.... Anyway, it matters that the US is becoming isolated and is not an international leader anymore. That is the whole point. America has a HUGE impact on the world's economy and its politics, so it becoming isolated is kind of a big deal. I would think that most Americans wouldn't be interested in America becoming isolationist while it basically rejects the next major global industry in favour of oil and coal. Also, it matters because the USA is the second biggest polluter on the face of the planet, so it not being on board with this is troubling on an environmental level that effects everyone on the planet. Yeah, it matters. You seem to think that Trump and friends will actually start doing some environmentally responsible stuff whether they are a part of this agreement or not.... where'd you get that idea?? I haven't seen anything suggesting that. There is meaning behind the rejection of the agreement. More actions will follow this one. Finally, just on a political/foreign relations level, it matter for America economically. This will almost certainly reduce investment in America.