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Oil, name something .....

Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
in A Moving Train
is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Log cabins
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Jason P said:

    Log cabins

    no, research tools and log transport.

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Godfather. said:

    Jason P said:

    Log cabins

    no, research tools and log transport.

    use mules and beavers like a real man.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    been spending most of my life living in an amish paradise
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Jason P said:

    Godfather. said:

    Jason P said:

    Log cabins

    no, research tools and log transport.

    use mules and beavers like a real man.
    Maybe slaves too.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    The plastics we need in the medical field are critical.

    We cannot drain the planet and then shift to an alternate fuel source. We need to begin the process of shifting to alternative forms of energy sooner than later.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,436
    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    This was going to be my exact response.
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    no not backwards at all, I'm not arguing our dependence on oil or our need to minimalize it but what am saying is we are not there yet not even close, we without a doubt need to improve and expand on renewable energy sources but until we do we shouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot by protesting or destroying pipelines or refineries and driving up the cost of something we all use daily, did you notice all the garbage left behind at the current pipeline protest ? how much oil was used to clean up the mess and even manufacture the products left as waste ? kind of counter productive don't you think ? people would be better of supporting research programs for renewable energy with their time and money rather than fight someone as powerful as big oil....you know who's going to win but you know humans, nothing says I'm angry like blood shed and violence.

  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    Godfather. said:

    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    no not backwards at all, I'm not arguing our dependence on oil or our need to minimalize it but what am saying is we are not there yet not even close, we without a doubt need to improve and expand on renewable energy sources but until we do we shouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot by protesting or destroying pipelines or refineries and driving up the cost of something we all use daily, did you notice all the garbage left behind at the current pipeline protest ? how much oil was used to clean up the mess and even manufacture the products left as waste ? kind of counter productive don't you think ? people would be better of supporting research programs for renewable energy with their time and money rather than fight someone as powerful as big oil....you know who's going to win but you know humans, nothing says I'm angry like blood shed and violence.

    So renewables should be privately funded, while the oil industry continues to be heavily subsidized with our tax dollars?
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Go Beavers said:

    Godfather. said:

    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    no not backwards at all, I'm not arguing our dependence on oil or our need to minimalize it but what am saying is we are not there yet not even close, we without a doubt need to improve and expand on renewable energy sources but until we do we shouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot by protesting or destroying pipelines or refineries and driving up the cost of something we all use daily, did you notice all the garbage left behind at the current pipeline protest ? how much oil was used to clean up the mess and even manufacture the products left as waste ? kind of counter productive don't you think ? people would be better of supporting research programs for renewable energy with their time and money rather than fight someone as powerful as big oil....you know who's going to win but you know humans, nothing says I'm angry like blood shed and violence.

    So renewables should be privately funded, while the oil industry continues to be heavily subsidized with our tax dollars?
    I never suggested that but now that you have brought it up lets think about that for a few, just a guess on my part but besides the strangle hold big oil has on our society along with the power companies why have such little advancements been made (comparatively speaking) ?
    maybe the cost of producing fossil is still much cheaper than renewable ? believe me I would love to see big oil on it's knees but until somebody creates renewables that can efficiently serve the masses it's going to be an up hill battle.


  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    edited March 2017
    we will never see the end of oil completely......so far it has been the most reliable source of power.
    Post edited by Godfather. on
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,032
    edited March 2017
    To answer your question, GF: I imagine there are still isolated groups of people who have never used oil and before the Drake well in Titusville, Pennsylvania was started up on August 28, 1859, the same was true of everyone else. In the not too distant future, oil will be scare once again. To not believe that is to live in a bubble.

    Might I suggest some good books on the subject?

    James Howard Kunstler: The Long Emergency
    Richard Heinberg: Peak Everything: Waking Up to the Century of Declines and Powerdown: Options and Actions for a Post-Carbon World

    And simple logic: Why are tar sand oils being extracted when the cost of production barely equals the energy output, not to mention the cost to environment?

    Post edited by brianlux on
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    brianlux said:

    To answer your question, GF: I imagine there are still isolated groups of people who have never used oil and before the Drake well in Titusville, Pennsylvania was started up on August 28, 1859, the same was true of everyone else. In the not too distant future, oil will be scare once again. To not believe that is to live in a bubble.

    Might I suggest some good books on the subject?

    James Howard Kunstler: The Long Emergency
    Richard Heinberg: Peak Everything: Waking Up to the Century of Declines and Powerdown: Options and Actions for a Post-Carbon World

    And simple logic: Why are tar sand oils being extracted when the cost of production barely equals the energy output, not to mention the cost to environment?

    And simple logic: Why are tar sand oils being extracted when the cost of production barely equals the energy output, not to mention the cost to environment?
    I wish I knew...my thought is that renewable is more costly to operate and maintain at this point or big oil owns the game lock stock and barrel and too powerful to go up against, we seem to be a reactive society rather than proactive, we won't make that jump until it's do or die
    time.

  • KatKat Posts: 4,871
    edited March 2017
    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,436
    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    Been asking this since I was a child: Why isn't the roof on every house made up of solar panels?
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    HesCalledDyer said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    Been asking this since I was a child: Why isn't the roof on every house made up of solar panels?
    No one controls the flow of the suns rays, therefore no one can make money from the flow.
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,436
    Go Beavers said:

    HesCalledDyer said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    Been asking this since I was a child: Why isn't the roof on every house made up of solar panels?
    No one controls the flow of the suns rays, therefore no one can make money from the flow.
    Precisely. People (i.e. politicians, corporations) need to stop looking at the environment as a money-maker.
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,032
    Go Beavers said:

    HesCalledDyer said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    Been asking this since I was a child: Why isn't the roof on every house made up of solar panels?
    No one controls the flow of the suns rays, therefore no one can make money from the flow.
    Here, in California at least, our electric company, PG&E does make money off of solar. In fact, unless you are totally off grid, you have to have your solar connected through PG&E and they have to be the ones to turn the system on.

    But, yes, solar seems to be controlled and discourage in some ways. I'm not sure if it's just this state or nation wide but I'm told a tax break that was given for installing solar ended recently so fewer people are going that way.

    It also bears considering that all of the alternatives together cannot match the energy output we've seen for the last 150 years with oil. I don't have the figure or facts on hand to prove that, but through a lot of reading on the subject, that's my understanding. For example, it takes oil and oil energy to produce solar panels and those panels wear out and need to be replaced. I'm not saying we shouldn't go that way or pursue other alternatives- obviously I would say, "Yes!" But there are other factors to be considered, especially reduced population and reduced consumption.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    I've never seen anything to prove that BUT I agree with you, solar has been to slow in coming and it's research has been limited to private
    companies and individuals that I know of....didn't NASA use solar power on the moon and Mars for equipment ? ummmmmm

  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086
    Godfather. said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    I've never seen anything to prove that BUT I agree with you, solar has been to slow in coming and it's research has been limited to private
    companies and individuals that I know of....didn't NASA use solar power on the moon and Mars for equipment ? ummmmmm

    Panels go on pretty much everything that nasa puts out there.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    brianlux said:

    Go Beavers said:

    HesCalledDyer said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    Been asking this since I was a child: Why isn't the roof on every house made up of solar panels?
    No one controls the flow of the suns rays, therefore no one can make money from the flow.
    Here, in California at least, our electric company, PG&E does make money off of solar. In fact, unless you are totally off grid, you have to have your solar connected through PG&E and they have to be the ones to turn the system on.

    But, yes, solar seems to be controlled and discourage in some ways. I'm not sure if it's just this state or nation wide but I'm told a tax break that was given for installing solar ended recently so fewer people are going that way.

    It also bears considering that all of the alternatives together cannot match the energy output we've seen for the last 150 years with oil. I don't have the figure or facts on hand to prove that, but through a lot of reading on the subject, that's my understanding. For example, it takes oil and oil energy to produce solar panels and those panels wear out and need to be replaced. I'm not saying we shouldn't go that way or pursue other alternatives- obviously I would say, "Yes!" But there are other factors to be considered, especially reduced population and reduced consumption.
    I believe PG&E and SDG&E / Sempra Energies / Duke Energies may be all tied together, yes they are putting up wind farms in the desert
    and running power cables as far as San Diego that I know of.
    they are dumping millions upon millions of dollars into the solar panels as well.



  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    leave oil to the things that can only be made with it, and use renewables for everything else. But no, we have president saying he doesn't like wind power because "the turbines are big and ugly".
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    we should have gone to electric cars decades ago. solar power decades ago. humans are too slow to change. we don't adapt well. even in the face of catastrophe that everyone wants to believe the next generation will deal with.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • KatKat Posts: 4,871
    Godfather. said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    I've never seen anything to prove that BUT I agree with you, solar has been to slow in coming and it's research has been limited to private
    companies and individuals that I know of....didn't NASA use solar power on the moon and Mars for equipment ? ummmmmm

    I don't think oil would ever be completely replaced but it's going to take decades for the transition to a major use of solar, if that's the way we go with another energy. There will be all kinds of things to transition...jobs, education, infrastructure and more. It's mind-boggling but we have to move on it in a major way if we're going to get there. Also, think of all the things that came from space exploration...they weren't just for space. Here's an old article with a list. :)

    http://kearth101.cbslocal.com/2011/07/21/list-stuff-we-use-everyday-that-was-invented-from-the-space-program/

    We need leaders to push us into the future... not back to the past.

    Falling down,...not staying down
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    is there any man made product that has no ties to oil ? if you can think of one please post it here.

    Your whole line of thinking on this is backwards, we need renewable energy sources precisely BECAUSE oil is so crucial to making plastics and manufacturing. If we burn up all the oil trying to power our vehicles, homes, and power grid, we will be in sore shape when it comes to everything else about modern life.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    we should have gone to electric cars decades ago. solar power decades ago. humans are too slow to change. we don't adapt well. even in the face of catastrophe that everyone wants to believe the next generation will deal with.

    I believe the generations to come will do great things in solar and wind power, it's just not happening as fast we need it.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    leave oil to the things that can only be made with it, and use renewables for everything else. But no, we have president saying he doesn't like wind power because "the turbines are big and ugly".

    Like Trump should be talking about things that are big and ugly, I'm mean fuck.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    edited March 2017
    Go Beavers said:

    Godfather. said:

    Kat said:

    The main reason so many things are involved with oil is because of the efforts by the oil industry to stifle innovation with other sources of energy. I'm in favor of solar energy and, if the people who create/invent/pursue this source of energy were encouraged, supported and given the funding they need to explore ways to make using it safe and easy on the environment were allowed to do those things, eventually, we'd all be better off and oil would go the way of dirty coal. Sorry for the long sentence; I'd just like to see our government encourage solar development the way President Kennedy did about space exploration. Think of the amazing things that could come of it.

    Oil has had its turn. It's time for a transition to something else, something cleaner, something better.

    I've never seen anything to prove that BUT I agree with you, solar has been to slow in coming and it's research has been limited to private
    companies and individuals that I know of....didn't NASA use solar power on the moon and Mars for equipment ? ummmmmm

    Panels go on pretty much everything that nasa puts out there.
    Most of western Europe is way ahead of North America with renewable energy. They are already starting to build road ways and bike paths and stuff with solar panels. China is also starting to lead the way with solar power. They doubled their solar capacity just in 2016 and plan on increasing that each year (even though they have so much to make up for and so much polluting to try and stop, we can't say they're anywhere close to really slowing or stopping the heinous damage the country is doing to the world yet, but still...). There is so much space in this world where solar panels could go, but North Americans are so behind the times because they and their governments are still controlled by oil companies. Any North American efforts towards alternative energy sources and growing that sector (and all that involves) in our neck of the woods are not even lackluster at best. I think the correct term would be pathetic.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,436
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    leave oil to the things that can only be made with it, and use renewables for everything else. But no, we have president saying he doesn't like wind power because "the turbines are big and ugly".

    So that's where the term originated...
    big + ugly = bigly :lol:

    We had a big stink locally about 10-12 years ago when they started putting up windmills on the mountain ridges. Mostly from old people complaining that it was an eyesore and a disgrace to nature. Funny how they've all stared at the electric lines spanning those same mountains for the last 130 years and couldn't seem to be bothered by it.
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
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