Real Men Provide

HughFreakingDillon

cp3iverson said:

Bentleyspop said:

tweedyfanjen said:

I guess women who are single and childless are just shit out of luck.

Yup
Can't be housewives..... the world's greatest profession

Its a blessing to be able to have my wife stay home, take care of the kids, teach them, be with them, keep the house beautiful, etc. So vital at those young ages. Obviously it has to fit your situation but a housewife/stay at home mom is a super hard job and way more important IMO than any career that the wife (or husband) is not partaking in. Again, it depends on the situation. Being a good parent is hard work no matter how you have to pull it off. I just have a ton of respect for what she does.

anyone who knows, has a tonne of respect for any stay at home mom. if my wife and I could have afforded it, she or I would have stayed home. but that isn't what the billboard is about.

rgambs

Stay at homers are overrated lol

As one myself, I gotta say, there are far too many parents out there crying out for credit and attention for being a parent.
And those memes about what a stay at home parent should make if they were compensated, RIDICULOUS!

People who think raising children is a really hard job have never really worked. They haven't dealt with the stresses of a difficult office or medical profession, and they sure as shit never busted their muscles and bones to bits in a difficult manual labor job!

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

Stay at homers are overrated lol

As one myself, I gotta say, there are far too many parents out there crying out for credit and attention for being a parent.
And those memes about what a stay at home parent should make if they were compensated, RIDICULOUS!

People who think raising children is a really hard job have never really worked. They haven't dealt with the stresses of a difficult office or medical profession, and they sure as shit never busted their muscles and bones to bits in a difficult manual labor job!

it's a different type of stress, though. not necessarily grunt work. it can be exhausting when you feel "it's all on the line", since the ramifications of fucking up your kids can be long lasting, as opposed to fucking up in a meeting.

but you get over that hump of the first few years, and yes, there are many professions that are much more difficult and straining. and much less rewarding.

rgambs

I've done both, as a Surgical Assistant and as a packager in a factory. Staying at home with Simon is the bees fuckin knees lol. Give me 6 kids and it still beats that factory floor, and while I loved surgery, life or death precision on your job actually drains you to the level that parents like to pretend they are at after a day with some kids and house chores.

Ok, rant over, sorry guys lol

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

I've done both, as a Surgical Assistant and as a packager in a factory. Staying at home with Simon is the bees fuckin knees lol. Give me 6 kids and it still beats that factory floor, and while I loved surgery, life or death precision on your job actually drains you to the level that parents like to pretend they are at after a day with some kids and house chores.

Ok, rant over, sorry guys lol

fair enough, but maybe Simon is easier than a lot of other kids. My kids are pretty easy too, but I've seen VERY difficult children.

oftenreading

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

What is "natural" for mammals in terms of nurturing young is completely confounded by the fact that female mammals provide milk to their young. It's part of the definition of mammals. Sometimes there is really no nurturing beyond that, and sometimes there is. Mammalian young are often kicked out when they are done nursing, but not always. If you argue that providing milk is more nurturing, then yes, you're correct. That doesn't speak to any other aspect of nurturing young, though.

Within birds, who of course don't provide milk, it's almost always the males doing the feeding and nurturing.

Which is the same for human mothers.. the milk piece. And that's why I was very specific about mammals. I'm not arguing that there's isn't a societal influence, but perhaps the nature led to that 'nurture' piece.

The argument that it is "natural" for females to nurture while males provide is completely unsupported in the animal kingdom. Female mammals provide milk but beyond that they often just go about the business of staying alive. Female mammalian predators don't stay back in the den, waiting for the males to bring in a kill; typically they are out hunting and the young stay back on their own or, when old enough, come along to practice hunting. Female mammalian prey species like ungulates don't wait for males to bring back a load of grass; they're just grazing, the young mingling about in the herd, and when predators approach, everyone just runs.

Coming back to humans, this idea that it has been normal and "natural" for mothers to only concern themselves with caring for the children and the home while the fathers work to support them is based only on a brief and completely anomalous span of human history in which there was relative prosperity combined with societal pressures to keep women occupied and out of public life. For thousands of years before that, everyone's labour was essential for survival. Children were not viewed as the precious angels they are now, but rather as potential human capital. That extra mouth to feed had better pretty quickly be attached to a body capable of work, and before they got old enough for that, childcare was often the job of elders, or people who otherwise couldn't contribute as much physical labour. On farms, where most humans have lived, women worked in all areas and the children either helped or basically looked after themselves. If the family was prosperous enough to have something like a store, you can bet the wife worked in that store, too. Those wealthy enough not to have to work themselves were wealthy enough to hire wet nurses and nannies and tutors, because it was widely recognized that children were not particularly fascinating conversationalists and no one really wanted to spend all of their days with them when you could avoid it.

The idea that women should be content with concerning themselves only with managing a home and raising children is what's unnatural.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

I've done both, as a Surgical Assistant and as a packager in a factory. Staying at home with Simon is the bees fuckin knees lol. Give me 6 kids and it still beats that factory floor, and while I loved surgery, life or death precision on your job actually drains you to the level that parents like to pretend they are at after a day with some kids and house chores.

Ok, rant over, sorry guys lol

Easy for you to say: you had spanking as a parental option and the kids fell into line.

HughFreakingDillon

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

Well I certainly wouldn't call it easy, I guess where my cantankerosity comes from is that it isn't a job. It's not something you do because you have to, it's something you are privileged to be doing.
Enjoy it and quit yer bitchin I say!

When I've got my pissy pants on anyways

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

To be fair, in that situation, you've also got your work week under the belt as you managed the kids and the household. It all adds up.

mrussel1

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

To be fair, in that situation, you've also got your work week under the belt as you managed the kids and the household. It all adds up.

I firmly believe raising kids is harder than my job. I don't think it's close.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mrussel1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

To be fair, in that situation, you've also got your work week under the belt as you managed the kids and the household. It all adds up.

I firmly believe raising kids is harder than my job. I don't think it's close.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's extremely challenging.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I just don't think it's fair to say someone "has never really worked" if they think parenting is hard. I've worked hard jobs. I've worked shitty jobs. I've worked easy jobs. And when I'm home with the kids, especially in the early years, it was fun, but it was tough. not tough, but BUSY. 8 hours feels like 1 hour. not to mention my point above, that all kids are different, and all people have different things they excel at.

To be fair, in that situation, you've also got your work week under the belt as you managed the kids and the household. It all adds up.

I was actually referring to when my wife went back to work, we had no child care in the summer, and I was off with them for a time on my own.

but yes, in your scenario, it definitely can lend itself to whiskey consumption and UFC watching.

PJ_Soul

Last time I lived with a man I provided more than him and he didn't appreciate it. Maybe I should put up an offensive billboard about it, eh?

(honestly, just thinking about the kinds of people who were behind that billboard makes me sick to my stomach. Yes, if someone is providing for anyone else, the one they're providing for should appreciate it. That doesn't at all excuse the meaning/connotations behind that disgusting, sexist billboard. I don't understand why this billboard would even be under debate. Anyone who isn't pissed off at it is a huge sexist)

PP193448

So I'm still wondering about that sign... maybe we all have it completely wrong... maybe, just maybe the sign is referring to oral sex??? Cause that's really the only thing that makes sense!!

Oh snap... yes I just went there... hope no one is offended, if so Sorry!!