Real Men Provide

tweedyfanjen

Godfather. said:

tweedyfanjen said:

If I'm single then who am I supposed to appreciate?

anybody who has been an influence in your life ?

I have no real male influences in my life.

Kev - Coat and Keys

I always prefer complex men.

ElderlyWomanOH

Speaking as a (female) child of the 70's - appalling, demeaning, misogynist, and more.

"In the United States, women now financially support 40 percent of homes and tend to take on more domestic chores. They typically spend two hours and 12 minutes on daily housework, while men invest about one hour and 21 minutes into the home."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/men-say-they-work-more-than-women-heres-the-truth/

aidt17

I saw this thread and looked into it a little further and thought I'd share some insight.

I'm a middle child now in my 30's my mom had us kids when she was pretty young from 19-25. She has always worked hard, and so did my father but when I was in my late teens he made some mistakes, thought by providing material things he was making our life better or more fulfilled, either way he got into some legal trouble with the company he owned, but to add to it he also got into some marital trouble and essentially disappeared from our life at home and moved 9 hrs away. We all stayed with my mom as we sided with her on who was in the wrong. So my mom still had her career and 3 teens living at home who were not the Easiest to live with but She managed us all and was still very successful in her career. What makes her even more remarkable is that my younger sister,so her 17 year old daughter (my mom would have been 43 at the time) was tragically killed in a car accident. And it was my mother who kept my older sister and I together, still while being a single mom and a career mom. I never ever appreciated it like I should have until my own children were born. And seeing that billboard just struck me as naive. And on the flip side a "real man" at least in my case means to be there, to be supportive, to accept my children, wife, family and friends emotionally, financially and in whatever way I can to be positive figure in their lives. I've been down that road of a financially supportive man in my life and absent in so many other ways and it only led to heartache. It's sad to say that one of THE BEST things I learned from my dad was he showed me the kind of father I knew I didn't want to become. Love him lots but just not who I want to be for my family. Sorry for the long winded post but that billboard just rubbed me the wrong way
Cheers

HughFreakingDillon

aidt17 said:

I saw this thread and looked into it a little further and thought I'd share some insight.

I'm a middle child now in my 30's my mom had us kids when she was pretty young from 19-25. She has always worked hard, and so did my father but when I was in my late teens he made some mistakes, thought by providing material things he was making our life better or more fulfilled, either way he got into some legal trouble with the company he owned, but to add to it he also got into some marital trouble and essentially disappeared from our life at home and moved 9 hrs away. We all stayed with my mom as we sided with her on who was in the wrong. So my mom still had her career and 3 teens living at home who were not the Easiest to live with but She managed us all and was still very successful in her career. What makes her even more remarkable is that my younger sister,so her 17 year old daughter (my mom would have been 43 at the time) was tragically killed in a car accident. And it was my mother who kept my older sister and I together, still while being a single mom and a career mom. I never ever appreciated it like I should have until my own children were born. And seeing that billboard just struck me as naive. And on the flip side a "real man" at least in my case means to be there, to be supportive, to accept my children, wife, family and friends emotionally, financially and in whatever way I can to be positive figure in their lives. I've been down that road of a financially supportive man in my life and absent in so many other ways and it only led to heartache. It's sad to say that one of THE BEST things I learned from my dad was he showed me the kind of father I knew I didn't want to become. Love him lots but just not who I want to be for my family. Sorry for the long winded post but that billboard just rubbed me the wrong way
Cheers

as it should. thanks for your story. sorry about your sister.

Cliffy6745

aidt17 said:

I saw this thread and looked into it a little further and thought I'd share some insight.

I'm a middle child now in my 30's my mom had us kids when she was pretty young from 19-25. She has always worked hard, and so did my father but when I was in my late teens he made some mistakes, thought by providing material things he was making our life better or more fulfilled, either way he got into some legal trouble with the company he owned, but to add to it he also got into some marital trouble and essentially disappeared from our life at home and moved 9 hrs away. We all stayed with my mom as we sided with her on who was in the wrong. So my mom still had her career and 3 teens living at home who were not the Easiest to live with but She managed us all and was still very successful in her career. What makes her even more remarkable is that my younger sister,so her 17 year old daughter (my mom would have been 43 at the time) was tragically killed in a car accident. And it was my mother who kept my older sister and I together, still while being a single mom and a career mom. I never ever appreciated it like I should have until my own children were born. And seeing that billboard just struck me as naive. And on the flip side a "real man" at least in my case means to be there, to be supportive, to accept my children, wife, family and friends emotionally, financially and in whatever way I can to be positive figure in their lives. I've been down that road of a financially supportive man in my life and absent in so many other ways and it only led to heartache. It's sad to say that one of THE BEST things I learned from my dad was he showed me the kind of father I knew I didn't want to become. Love him lots but just not who I want to be for my family. Sorry for the long winded post but that billboard just rubbed me the wrong way
Cheers

Awesome stuff. Thanks for sharing. More to life and relationships than providing money.

vaggar99

what a waste of money. no one gives a shit. a real person provides for a family. it does not matter if that person is a man or a woman.

hedonist

HughFreakingDillon said:

aidt17 said:

I saw this thread and looked into it a little further and thought I'd share some insight.

I'm a middle child now in my 30's my mom had us kids when she was pretty young from 19-25. She has always worked hard, and so did my father but when I was in my late teens he made some mistakes, thought by providing material things he was making our life better or more fulfilled, either way he got into some legal trouble with the company he owned, but to add to it he also got into some marital trouble and essentially disappeared from our life at home and moved 9 hrs away. We all stayed with my mom as we sided with her on who was in the wrong. So my mom still had her career and 3 teens living at home who were not the Easiest to live with but She managed us all and was still very successful in her career. What makes her even more remarkable is that my younger sister,so her 17 year old daughter (my mom would have been 43 at the time) was tragically killed in a car accident. And it was my mother who kept my older sister and I together, still while being a single mom and a career mom. I never ever appreciated it like I should have until my own children were born. And seeing that billboard just struck me as naive. And on the flip side a "real man" at least in my case means to be there, to be supportive, to accept my children, wife, family and friends emotionally, financially and in whatever way I can to be positive figure in their lives. I've been down that road of a financially supportive man in my life and absent in so many other ways and it only led to heartache. It's sad to say that one of THE BEST things I learned from my dad was he showed me the kind of father I knew I didn't want to become. Love him lots but just not who I want to be for my family. Sorry for the long winded post but that billboard just rubbed me the wrong way
Cheers

as it should. thanks for your story. sorry about your sister.

Agreed, every word.

BS44325

https://youtu.be/R7ZHLppS5_w

my2hands

Considering I was raised by my divorced mother with very little to no help from my father, I say fuck that billboard and anybody that stands behind its message

whispering hands

I am gonna catch crap for this.. but oh well, all sides covered right?
I am a woman. I was raised in a split home, that caused major HELL in mine and my older sister's lives. BUT.. between living with my drug-addled mother and her psychotic Cuban husband, and living with my Dad and his wife, whom was ( and still is) a living definition of a Christian, I got to see both sides.. I 100% agree with the billboard.
Here's why:
Family is core to society.. any early childhood expert will explain that for the first 1-6 years, environment is key to development. Family is two parents, that love and care for one another and beyond. This day and edge of society is so full of crap and PC non sense that we barely love ourselves anymore... So much so, that women feel the need to fulfill men's roles in our lives. Maybe I am just too old fashioned.. or maybe I am just brain damaged from my childhood... but Gees what I wouldn't give for a society that had family in
Mind and heart so deeply above self, that the core of family still existed. A mother, a father.. both in their proper places.. ( not saying that it works this way every time.. Clffy'sstory is proof of that), but that is what builds strong family. I honestly think a man should provide, and a woman should abide.. haha I just made that up.. but seriously.. anyhow.. just an
Opinion from the village idiot..

whispering hands

Not saying that women have to live barefoot in the kitchen.. just saying that unless a woman wants to wear the pants, and the man decides he wants to be free to do the things he loves, like Cliffy's family, it should be common that there be mothers IN THE HOME; not working their butts off, leaving their child to childcare etc.. because that earlier development is what builds decent humans. Somehow, having 'everything you want', has become the core in society. I just wanted to clarify that.. lynch away..

benjs

whispering hands said:

Not saying that women have to live barefoot in the kitchen.. just saying that unless a woman wants to wear the pants, and the man decides he wants to be free to do the things he loves, like Cliffy's family, it should be common that there be mothers IN THE HOME; not working their butts off, leaving their child to childcare etc.. because that earlier development is what builds decent humans. Somehow, having 'everything you want', has become the core in society. I just wanted to clarify that.. lynch away..

Don't be so hard on yourself for this opinion! If I'm understanding right, you feel that a child's successful development is intrinsically supported by the traditional structure of the nuclear family with a man who covers financials and a woman who covers home life.

I guess my first question would be if you feel women naturally possess skills that leave them better suited to home life than men, and whether men naturally possess skills that leave them better suited to work life than women.

Next question - if that is the case, could that be because they have learnt and become adept at those skills from witnessing society do the same thing before their chance to raise a family? In other words, if people committed their energies to learning how to fulfill both roles, could they do either just as well?

Finally, with the reality moving towards dual-income parenting by necessity, do you not feel there could be strategies, tools, assistance put in place to recreate the nurturing for development that a child would have received in a traditional nuclear family?

A nuclear family may be ideal, but sometimes ideal is not tenable. Rather than looking at what was, I think you've misinterpreted society's aspirations - it's just trying to make the best of what currently is.

cp3iverson

.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

whispering hands said:

Not saying that women have to live barefoot in the kitchen.. just saying that unless a woman wants to wear the pants, and the man decides he wants to be free to do the things he loves, like Cliffy's family, it should be common that there be mothers IN THE HOME; not working their butts off, leaving their child to childcare etc.. because that earlier development is what builds decent humans. Somehow, having 'everything you want', has become the core in society. I just wanted to clarify that.. lynch away..

I'm kind of going to agree with you, but only to a point.

My wife and I sacrificed so that my wife stayed at home until the kids were in elementary school. We didn't want our kids in daycare and institutionalized (no judgements on anyone doing it differently).

She assumed the house duties because I had a better job than her. It wasn't gender related. And she worked just as hard as I (providing) at home. We were a team.

Once the kids started school, she got a job and has contributed financially. We're still a team.

The sign displays so much ignorance.

rgambs

whispering hands said:

I am gonna catch crap for this.. but oh well, all sides covered right?
I am a woman. I was raised in a split home, that caused major HELL in mine and my older sister's lives. BUT.. between living with my drug-addled mother and her psychotic Cuban husband, and living with my Dad and his wife, whom was ( and still is) a living definition of a Christian, I got to see both sides.. I 100% agree with the billboard.
Here's why:
Family is core to society.. any early childhood expert will explain that for the first 1-6 years, environment is key to development. Family is two parents, that love and care for one another and beyond. This day and edge of society is so full of crap and PC non sense that we barely love ourselves anymore... So much so, that women feel the need to fulfill men's roles in our lives. Maybe I am just too old fashioned.. or maybe I am just brain damaged from my childhood... but Gees what I wouldn't give for a society that had family in
Mind and heart so deeply above self, that the core of family still existed. A mother, a father.. both in their proper places.. ( not saying that it works this way every time.. Clffy'sstory is proof of that), but that is what builds strong family. I honestly think a man should provide, and a woman should abide.. haha I just made that up.. but seriously.. anyhow.. just an
Opinion from the village idiot..

The problem is that the bolded pieces are unrelated to the rest of the post, which is unrelated to the billboard.
The breaking up of families and the rise of women providing the bulk of financial support are two different issues. I agree that, ideally, a child is raised by a mother and a father, but it doesn't always work out that way and pinning societies' problems on single mothers is a cowardly move. It's a regressive thought pattern that discounts all the shitty things that still happened in a society full of traditional families. That's a tangent though, the point is that it isn't what the billboard is saying. The billboard is saying, "women in the kitchen, men in the fields, and the women better appreciate it"... Shouldn't the man appreciate as well? Nahhhh, not an important component of real manhood.

What is a man and woman's proper place? Trying to define that in the way the billboard does IS old fashioned, and it's based on age old assumptions of the weak mind and body of the female gender. Is that really something you want to support?

My wife sometimes makes more in a day than I do in a week's worth of honest, blue collar labor, so I work part-time and I stay home to raise my son. I cook, I clean, and I farm. I am deep in the weeds potty training a 22 month old boy, and when he takes a nap today I have to bust ass to get the whole house cleaned so that when Dr. Gambs gets back from her day moonlighting an hour away she can relax and enjoy the Pad Thai I am making for dinner and have a chill evening.

According to the billboard, with which you agree, I am not a real man.
According to what you said, I am not in my proper place.

That's all bullshit.

Godfather.

I have worked all my life and when I got married I worked harder to give my wife the chance to stay home and not work, let me tell you guys something. it's not easy being a stay home mom or dad for that matter, raising kids, maintaining a household and just taking care of a spouse's need and their own and kids is hard, exhausting physically and mentally ...believe me.. I see my wife at the end of the day and she's wiped out.

hedonist

gambo, you are a good man. To me, that is a real man.

Knowing Tree, I get where she's coming from and that it's not BS to her, from her view and experiences. She is a real woman.

I think maybe it just comes down to some semblance of stability in life, and not the gender(s) of who provides that. While there's beauty in spontaneity, children need that construct of safety and routine. I don't care if it comes from one parent, from two...if two fathers or two mothers, whatever. We all need balance. And strong guides in our lives, so that maybe - MAYBE - we can do the same for others.

oftenreading

The most important thing for infants and children is attachment. Hell, that's probably the most important thing for all of us. Whether to their mother, their father, their two same sex parents, their single parent, their grandparents.... it's the attachment and loving care that matters.

There was no golden age of perfect families and perfectly happy children in some distant time when everyone knew their place and stayed in it. There is only loving and caring, or the absence of it.

rgambs

To be fair to WH, I don't think she thinks of people like me as less than real men or women, it's just that WH deals in hard truths. I respect that, admire it even, and I am the same way. The only problem with that is when we tell hard truths we have to be careful not to simplify things to a point that does the truth disservice. What makes a real man can't be boiled down to a billboard, any attempt to do so will fall flat on it's face. For instance, many a man has toiled away his life to provide for a wife and kids he didn't even care to truly know or love, that's no kind of real man.