** THE IMPENDING IMPEACHMENT OR RESIGNATION OF DONALD J TRUMP **

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Comments

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 11,438
    edited April 20

    These Republicans are a scary bunch.    Who is the next Republican after Trump and what are they going to let him get away with?  I truly believe if the Republicans found out Trump killed someone (but the Reps were the only ones that knew about it) they would let it go. They are spineless, terrible, hypocritical, enemies of the state. 

    Trump finishes out his term.  You are all "waiting on a sun that just won't come".

    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    edited April 20
    Jason P said:
    I just imported The Last Action Hero soundtrack into my baseball game today ... I haven't listened to it in well over a decade and came across it while doing some spring cleaning.  The Great Magnet must be at work today because you are probably the first person to bring up The Last Action Hero in over a decade as well.

    Strange.
    hehe. Well, shorten it by 20-30 minutes and it would be a stone cold classic.

    Too bad they had to have it open the same weekend as Jurassic Park in the summer of 93. Killed it.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309

    These Republicans are a scary bunch.    Who is the next Republican after Trump and what are they going to let him get away with?  I truly believe if the Republicans found out Trump killed someone (but the Reps were the only ones that knew about it) they would let it go. They are spineless, terrible, hypocritical, enemies of the state. 

    Trump finishes out his term.  You are all "waiting on a sun that just won't come".

    Disgusting to hear people like Jim Jordan and shit talk about it. I don't know if they just want to twist the narrative or if they don't check the facts themselves and just falls for the right-winged spin - but hear they japping about spying on Trump and that one guy Mueller removed, and 18 angry democrats out to get Trump etc. It's disgusting.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,624
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,688
    2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    edited April 20
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Not being able to prove conspiracy without a doubt -- is not the same as Donald Trump JR not taking meetings with russians for dirt on Hillary?

    Or is it?

    I don't see why you are still bending backwards to defend Trump and his gang of goons.

    This could be you in the 90s:
    "Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on OJ being the killer?"
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,688
    2019
    The OJ point is spot on. If you don’t think there was collusion , you must also think OJ is still tirelessly looking for the real killer. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,624
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    edited April 20
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    When you say cliff notes, are you sure you do not mean accepting what Fox News and/or factually wrong (or even lying) republicans will feed you?

    Because it sounds like that's what you've done so far.


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,688
    2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,867
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Dude, it’s Easter. Not Halloween.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    edited April 20
    2017
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,688
    2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Dude, it’s Easter. Not Halloween.
    That there’s an Alien Church. One of the finest beers you’ll drink. 

    Cheers, folks. Our president’s a criminal! God bless
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    my2hands said:
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
    In the corrupt states of America, bullshit seems to be walking and talking. 
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,867
    my2hands said:
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
    And a 10 count indictment for obstruction of justice for the house to pursue and 14 ongoing criminal investigations. Yea, nothing to see here except for Rodger Dodger Stoned talking to Julian Asstrange.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,867
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Dude, it’s Easter. Not Halloween.
    That there’s an Alien Church. One of the finest beers you’ll drink. 

    Cheers, folks. Our president’s a criminal! God bless
    Good to know. Gonna have to look that up. Trick or treat?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    my2hands said:
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
    And a 10 count indictment for obstruction of justice for the house to pursue and 14 ongoing criminal investigations. Yea, nothing to see here except for Rodger Dodger Stoned talking to Julian Asstrange.
    Surprised @my2hands coming off as ignorant and disingenuous here on AMT. I don't get it. He seems reasonable in other areas of the forum.

    Don't see the reason for acting dumb, when there is no need for it.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,624
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Thanks for the summary!  I'll check it out.  I like the last line a lot: "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
    So maybe we are both right, or both wrong, who knows.  I do now that we definitely agree that Trump is a POS.   Go Biden.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,688
    2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Thanks for the summary!  I'll check it out.  I like the last line a lot: "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
    So maybe we are both right, or both wrong, who knows.  I do now that we definitely agree that Trump is a POS.   Go Biden.
    Umm...that line was also in Barr’s summary from a month ago. Weird how that’s the one line you chose to quote here. 

    Just do a little reading on your own instead of just taking Tucker and Sean’s word for it. They are purposely spinning it in Trump’s favor. 

    And get yourself an Alien Church stat. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,160
    Something not mentioned in all of this is the August 2016 meeting with lil Don jr., and emissaries from Russia, UAE, Israel, and the Saudis.  And oddly trump’s foreign policy is friendly to all of them but without explanation.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/politics/trump-jr-saudi-uae-nader-prince-zamel.amp.html
     
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    edited April 21
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @mcgruff10 listen to Toobin here. Maybe you will get the facts right finally, and it will help you answer my question about the MItt-BS you still claim is correct:


    Just wondering, has anyone here admitted they were dead wrong on collusion?
    Trump is counting on people like you to not read the report. 

    I can guarantee you I will not read the report, I will wait for the cliff notes.  Let me know what you think of it after you read the entire thing.  
    Oh man. People like you are Trump’s wet dream version of the American electorate. You’re not even aware that Mueller has summaries for both parts of his report readily available...and they contradict the uninformed bullshit you’re spouting in here. He fucking gave you the Cliffs notes version but you’re too lazy to look for it. Here. I will help:
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries


    As for the whole thing? I will get back to you

    Thanks for the summary!  I'll check it out.  I like the last line a lot: "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
    So maybe we are both right, or both wrong, who knows.  I do now that we definitely agree that Trump is a POS.   Go Biden.
    Umm...that line was also in Barr’s summary from a month ago. Weird how that’s the one line you chose to quote here. 

    Just do a little reading on your own instead of just taking Tucker and Sean’s word for it. They are purposely spinning it in Trump’s favor. 

    And get yourself an Alien Church stat. 
    I would take it him being ironic with that comment, with that line being a cut out quote used by Barr in his 4 page memo. 

    Mcgruff does read NY Times and CNN afterall, enough to say that there was no obstruction when the report and these outlets clearly states there was and to say Mitt Romney is spot on when he in fact was factually wrong. 

    ...oh wait...
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,070
    2018
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/18/politics/mueller-report-donald-trump-controversial-tape-moscow/index.html
    Happy Easter everyone is the Baffoon holding a special egg hunt today..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    2017
    my2hands said:
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
    And a 10 count indictment for obstruction of justice for the house to pursue and 14 ongoing criminal investigations. Yea, nothing to see here except for Rodger Dodger Stoned talking to Julian Asstrange.
    Surprised @my2hands coming off as ignorant and disingenuous here on AMT. I don't get it. He seems reasonable in other areas of the forum.

    Don't see the reason for acting dumb, when there is no need for it.
    YES!!! I am ignorant, disingenuous, AND dumb...

    Sweet!!!
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,571
    I find the executive summary fascinating. I'll take a stab at what Mueller's intent was here, curious to hear how other people are reading these same words.

    Statutory defenses. Consistent with precedent and the Department of Justice's general approach to interpreting obstruction statutes , we concluded that several statutes could apply here. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1505, 1512(b)(3) , 1512(c)(2). Section 1512(c)(2) is an omnibus obstruction-of-justice provision that covers a range of obstructive acts directed at pending or contemplated official proceedings . No principle of statutory construction justifies narrowing the provision to cover only conduct that impairs the integrity or availability of evidence. Sections 1503 and 1505 also offer broad protection against obstructive acts directed at pending grand jury, judicial, administrative, and congressional proceedings , and they are supplemented by a provision in Section 1512(6) aimed specifically at conduct intended to prevent or hinder the communication to law enforcement of information related to a federal crime.

    Mueller's task was to prove that illegal actions either occurred or didn't, at the hands of Trump. This to me suggests that Mueller was compelled through the evidence to pursue a broad scope, and that he wasn't compelled through the evidence to restrict said scope. Of 12 listed issues in the previous introduction section, each of these felt relevant, either because they stood on their own as being suspicious and necessary to investigate, or added to something which stood on its own as suspicious and necessary to investigate. That in turn suggests to me that at least one of these causes had at least an explicit fact that demanded investigation and gave high probability of illegal misconduct. Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised to discover there actually is a 'smoking gun' on at least one of the allegations that could be highly corroborated (at least in terms of behaviour patterns) by the other 'less-smoking guns'.


    Constitutional defenses. As for constitutional defenses arising from the President's status as the head of the Executive Branch, we recognized that the Department of Justice and the courts have not definitively resolved these issues. We therefore examined those issues through the framework established by Supreme Court precedent governing separation-of-powers issues. The Department of Justice and the President's personal counsel have recognized that the President is subject to statutes that prohibit obstruction of justice by bribing a witness or suborning perjury because that conduct does not implicate his constitutional authority. With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice .


    Under applicable Supreme Court precedent, the Constitution does not categorically and permanently immunize a President for obstructing justice through the use of his Article II powers . The separation-of-powers doctrine authorizes Congress to protect official proceedings, including those of courts and grand juries, from corrupt, obstructive acts regardless of their source. We also concluded that any inroad on presidential authority that would occur from prohibiting corrupt acts does not undermine the President's ability to fulfill his constitutional mission. The term "corruptly " sets a demanding standard. It requires a concrete showing that a person acted with an intent to obtain an improper advantage for himself or someone else, inconsistent with official duty and the rights of others. A preclusion of "corrupt" official action does not diminish the President's ability to exercise Article II powers. For example , the proper supervision of criminal law does not demand freedom for the President to act with a corrupt intention of shielding himself from criminal punishment , avoiding financial liability, or preventing personal embarrassment. To the contrary , a statute that prohibits official action undertaken for such corrupt purposes furthers, rather than hinders, the impartial and evenhanded administration of the law. It also aligns with the President's constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws. Finally, we concluded that in the rare case in which a criminal investigation of the President 's conduct is justified, inquiries to determine whether the President acted for a corrupt motive should not impermissibly chill his performance of his constitutionally assigned duties . The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President 's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law .

    Mueller here outlines the legal precedence permitting the pursuit of obstruction of justice charges against a sitting President. It seems to all boil down to intent: if a sitting President is behaving corruptly, then to pursue impeachment would be permissible because the official duty of a President is to govern for the people, and if he or she is doing something antithetical to that, then to impeach would actually fulfill that Constitutional duty, and the governing law would still be obstruction of justice charges. Hence, intent would have to be nearly definitive in order to remove the conflict between the Constitutionally-mandated prevention of impeachment, and obstruction of justice laws. This is likely why Mueller even goes out of his way to talk about the high standards required before stating with certainty that Trump behaved "corruptly" to prove this point, because it is the key needed to justify further action.

    Mueller also diminishes the impact to the President of inquiries of corrupt motives, stating that Trump would be able to bear the costs of the investigation without materially affecting his ability to lead.

    Interestingly (though probably not too importantly), Mueller also states that the DOJ and Trump's counsel have both recognized these realities, and reaffirms that statement emphatically in his last sentence, concluding that Congress may proceed in the investigation if they so choose, without Constitutional conflict. The entire paragraph to me reads as explicitly granting permission by a non-partisan entity for Congress to investigate. 



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    EV
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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,571

    CONCLUSION

    Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment , we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. 

    My gut says the use of the word 'because' to start the paragraph is probably important. Rephrased, the cause is "we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment", and the effect is "we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct". Pair this with logic from the sentence "if we had confidence... did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state", and what becomes apparent are two things:
    1) Trump could not be ruled innocent definitively (aka anyone saying "No Obstruction" is making that statement without the necessary information) 

    2) The exclusive reason conclusions weren't drawn in this document was that Mueller elected not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. This means that every other potential reason is not why Mueller elected not to draw conclusions. Most importantly to me, inconclusive evidence was not the reason why Mueller didn't draw conclusions.  
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    edited April 21
    my2hands said:
    my2hands said:
    Blah blah blah 

    So far we have Roger "Nixon Bong" Stoned indicted for talking to wikileaks... indictments talk, bullshit walks 
    And a 10 count indictment for obstruction of justice for the house to pursue and 14 ongoing criminal investigations. Yea, nothing to see here except for Rodger Dodger Stoned talking to Julian Asstrange.
    Surprised @my2hands coming off as ignorant and disingenuous here on AMT. I don't get it. He seems reasonable in other areas of the forum.

    Don't see the reason for acting dumb, when there is no need for it.
    YES!!! I am ignorant, disingenuous, AND dumb...

    Sweet!!!
    acting dumb.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,867
    benjs said:

    CONCLUSION

    Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment , we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. 

    My gut says the use of the word 'because' to start the paragraph is probably important. Rephrased, the cause is "we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment", and the effect is "we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President's conduct". Pair this with logic from the sentence "if we had confidence... did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state", and what becomes apparent are two things:
    1) Trump could not be ruled innocent definitively (aka anyone saying "No Obstruction" is making that statement without the necessary information) 

    2) The exclusive reason conclusions weren't drawn in this document was that Mueller elected not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. This means that every other potential reason is not why Mueller elected not to draw conclusions. Most importantly to me, inconclusive evidence was not the reason why Mueller didn't draw conclusions.  
    Third paragraph from the top of page 10 describes the inability of Team Mueller to confirm, or deny, or corroborate evidence because of obstructionist actions or methods. I can see “no conspiracy” but “no collusion?” They were in deep.
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 12,309

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
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