***DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN IMPEACHED***

Cliffy6745

The Juggler said:

The Fixer said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems that all but one of Trump's friends gets it:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/opinions/only-one-person-can-save-this-president-borger/index.html

CNN link -- means a lot.  nice work.

I love how canadiens try to impact American politics.  If you want to vote you gotta move here.  Until then -- well, take a nice long walk in the wilderness, McCandless style

Oh, Fixer....CanadiAns wouldn't be dumb enough to elect this moron. I welcome their input. 

Also, considering McCandless was American and died in America, it makes even less sense and was about as bad of an insult as it gets. 

Halifax2TheMax

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

The Fixer said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems that all but one of Trump's friends gets it:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/opinions/only-one-person-can-save-this-president-borger/index.html

CNN link -- means a lot.  nice work.

I love how canadiens try to impact American politics.  If you want to vote you gotta move here.  Until then -- well, take a nice long walk in the wilderness, McCandless style

Oh, Fixer....CanadiAns wouldn't be dumb enough to elect this moron. I welcome their input. 

Also, considering McCandless was American and died in America, it makes even less sense and was about as bad of an insult as it gets. 

All of these hurt feelings, I'm beginning to think I'm listening to Rushbo.i wonder if we'll get the three scoops trifecta, emoluments clause, obstruction and unfit to serve, needs removal? I can't imagine anyone on his staff is looking forward to his first overseas trip. Maybe he should have started off a little slower? You know, like visiting England or Canada first? Instead Trump probably has it in his head that by visiting the three major religions' home countries, he'll unite the world through shear force of personality. I wonder how the Muslim ban conversation will go in Saudi? 

eddiec

Halifax2TheMax said:

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

The Fixer said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems that all but one of Trump's friends gets it:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/opinions/only-one-person-can-save-this-president-borger/index.html

CNN link -- means a lot.  nice work.

I love how canadiens try to impact American politics.  If you want to vote you gotta move here.  Until then -- well, take a nice long walk in the wilderness, McCandless style

Oh, Fixer....CanadiAns wouldn't be dumb enough to elect this moron. I welcome their input. 

Also, considering McCandless was American and died in America, it makes even less sense and was about as bad of an insult as it gets. 

All of these hurt feelings, I'm beginning to think I'm listening to Rushbo.i wonder if we'll get the three scoops trifecta, emoluments clause, obstruction and unfit to serve, needs removal? I can't imagine anyone on his staff is looking forward to his first overseas trip. Maybe he should have started off a little slower? You know, like visiting England or Canada first? Instead Trump probably has it in his head that by visiting the three major religions' home countries, he'll unite the world through shear force of personality. I wonder how the Muslim ban conversation will go in Saudi? 

Or maybe he thinks he'll just be hanging out with Saudi billionaires the whole time.

RiotZact

YAAAAYYY!!! Donald Trump will be impeached and now Mike Pence will be our president, YAAAAAY!!! Sure, some of his ideas are even crazier than Trump's. And sure, he has more experience working in this environment and is more likely to get some of his crazy ideas passed than Trump, but YAAAAY!!! How exciting for me and my fellow liberals! 

Meanwhile, what politicians are we trying to make the new face of the left movement? What things are we doing to correct the shit show that was the Democratic campaign of 2016? Right now it seems that our strategy is to make ourselves look better by comparison, which was exactly what most Hilary supporters were doing, "Yeah, I disagree with some of her policies too, but look at how crazy Trump is." That worked right? 

The first step in righting any wrong is to take a good long look in the fucking mirror and start bettering yourself. And at this rate that isn't happening any time soon, even if they decided that they wanted to impeach him today, how long until the process is actually finished and Pence is being sworn in? 2 years? By that time the election cycle will be starting again (I know that sounds like hell but that's the way it is). Is that when we start focusing on ourselves and finding good leaders that people will actually vote for, once the cycle has already started? 

And just for the record, I'm lumping myself in here too. I've spent the better part of the last 100+ days shitting on Trump to my friends and family but I'm starting to get sick of it and I'm realizing that it could be very counterproductive in the end. I mean what is my end game? Mike Pence? Is that really how I want to focus all of my energy to better my country over the next few years, essentially campaigning for Mike Pence? I don't think so, and I'm trying my best to let it go. It's time for me to focus my energy on making my movement look good rather than making someone else's look bad. 

PJ_Soul

2018

I used to fear a Pence presidency more than I did a Trump presidency because of Pence's crazy religion mania. But not anymore. I didn't expect Trump to be THIS unhinged (silly me). He is doing all the things Pence would do in terms of the extreme right wing/religious stuff, AND Trump is just batshit crazy, out of control, irresponsible, and embarrassing to the extreme. Pence wouldn't do anything worse than what Trump will do, and he is under control. I am now fully convinced that Pence would be a much better option, even with his fucked up evangelical and sexist bullshit. At least Pence probably wouldn't lose his fucking mind like Trump has.

Go Beavers

eddiec said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Cliffy6745 said:

The Juggler said:

The Fixer said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems that all but one of Trump's friends gets it:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/opinions/only-one-person-can-save-this-president-borger/index.html

CNN link -- means a lot.  nice work.

I love how canadiens try to impact American politics.  If you want to vote you gotta move here.  Until then -- well, take a nice long walk in the wilderness, McCandless style

Oh, Fixer....CanadiAns wouldn't be dumb enough to elect this moron. I welcome their input. 

Also, considering McCandless was American and died in America, it makes even less sense and was about as bad of an insult as it gets. 

All of these hurt feelings, I'm beginning to think I'm listening to Rushbo.i wonder if we'll get the three scoops trifecta, emoluments clause, obstruction and unfit to serve, needs removal? I can't imagine anyone on his staff is looking forward to his first overseas trip. Maybe he should have started off a little slower? You know, like visiting England or Canada first? Instead Trump probably has it in his head that by visiting the three major religions' home countries, he'll unite the world through shear force of personality. I wonder how the Muslim ban conversation will go in Saudi? 

Or maybe he thinks he'll just be hanging out with Saudi billionaires the whole time.

Since he's going where most of the 9/11 terrorists were from, I'm certain we'll be hearing him lecture them about what a threat they are to the US!

RiotZact

PJ_Soul said:

I used to fear a Pence presidency more than I did a Trump presidency because of Pence's crazy religion mania. But not anymore. I didn't expect Trump to be THIS unhinged (silly me). He is doing all the things Pence would do in terms of the extreme right wing/religious stuff, AND Trump is just batshit crazy, out of control, irresponsible, and embarrassing to the extreme. Pence wouldn't do anything worse than what Trump will do, and he is under control. I am now fully convinced that Pence would be a much better option, even with his fucked up evangelical and sexist bullshit. At least Pence probably wouldn't lose his fucking mind like Trump has.

I agree, but is he so much better that we should focus ALL of our energy on making him president? Becuase that's what we're doing right now. 

MayDay10

I do agree that the Democrats/Liberals need to channel this energy and momentum into some real action and gather support, and also create and familiarize potential leaders...  We are kind of seeing this with that House race in Georgia, but it needs to be much more.

You would have to think that a Pence presidency will be compromised.  This poop-storm would need to get to where its going which could take months, years, courts, etc... Then the carnage would have to settle.  You would have to think that through this process, Republicans would probably fracture a bit.  As it is, it has been difficult for Trump to pass his agenda.  Once the clock hits 2018, it will be a nice opportunity to balance congress a bit better.  Pence would largely be a lame duck.  Maybe the Republicans would nominate an adult, capable of independent and critical thought for 2020.  Wont keep my fingers crossed.  Democrats will likely nominate Booker, who should be able to inspire.  Maybe even Biden.  

PJ_Soul

2018

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

I used to fear a Pence presidency more than I did a Trump presidency because of Pence's crazy religion mania. But not anymore. I didn't expect Trump to be THIS unhinged (silly me). He is doing all the things Pence would do in terms of the extreme right wing/religious stuff, AND Trump is just batshit crazy, out of control, irresponsible, and embarrassing to the extreme. Pence wouldn't do anything worse than what Trump will do, and he is under control. I am now fully convinced that Pence would be a much better option, even with his fucked up evangelical and sexist bullshit. At least Pence probably wouldn't lose his fucking mind like Trump has.

I agree, but is he so much better that we should focus ALL of our energy on making him president? Becuase that's what we're doing right now. 

I think the focus is on getting rid of Trump, not making Pence president. Obviously one follows the other, but the main intent is obviously to save America from an insane person, not to get an evangelical into the Oval Office. I think it is totally fair that there is so much energy being spent on thinking about how to get Trump out of office. I think the possibility of him doing real long-term damage to the country, the population, and the world is very real. I think his potential to truly lose his mind and completely go off the deep end (more than he already has) is dangerously high. I think anyone who is focused on finding a way to get him out of office somehow, before this happens, is pretty well justified. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are kind of thinking, "well, it couldn't get any worse, and this isn't THAT bad, right?" Well, judging from his trajectory so far, I think it could very well get much worse as his sanity slips more and more.
Not to mention Bannon. Notice how everyone has forgotten about how dangerous Bannon, the true believer, is with Trump in power? Everyone might want to keep him more on their radar than they are. While all attention is on Trump's steady mental breakdown, Bannon very well may be plotting away, and people aren't even going to notice. Now, I don't think the Bannon problem would totally go away without Trump, but I don't have any reason to believe that Pence would give him the kind of arena he wants or needs to accomplish some pretty fucked up things, because Pence isn't all wrapped up in the whole right wing media propaganda train like Trump is. What was a recent headline I read recently? Something like "Americans are witnessing a slow-motion rise of an authoritarian regime". Well, I couldn't agree more with that assessment. And I think that Pence would help to put a halt to that, simply because it's not his desire to do that.

Go Beavers

There's no indication that trump is heading toward a breakdown. This is how he operates and how he's always operated. Just now the stakes are higher and he's monitored a lot more than he used to be. The chaos, bullying, agggression, ignorance, and tantrums are consistent with his history. 

RiotZact

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

I used to fear a Pence presidency more than I did a Trump presidency because of Pence's crazy religion mania. But not anymore. I didn't expect Trump to be THIS unhinged (silly me). He is doing all the things Pence would do in terms of the extreme right wing/religious stuff, AND Trump is just batshit crazy, out of control, irresponsible, and embarrassing to the extreme. Pence wouldn't do anything worse than what Trump will do, and he is under control. I am now fully convinced that Pence would be a much better option, even with his fucked up evangelical and sexist bullshit. At least Pence probably wouldn't lose his fucking mind like Trump has.

I agree, but is he so much better that we should focus ALL of our energy on making him president? Becuase that's what we're doing right now. 

I think the focus is on getting rid of Trump, not making Pence president. Obviously one follows the other, but the main intent is obviously to save America from an insane person, not to get an evangelical into the Oval Office. I think it is totally fair that there is so much energy being spent on thinking about how to get Trump out of office. I think the possibility of him doing real long-term damage to the country, the population, and the world is very real. I think his potential to truly lose his mind and completely go off the deep end (more than he already has) is dangerously high. I think anyone who is focused on finding a way to get him out of office somehow, before this happens, is pretty well justified. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are kind of thinking, "well, it couldn't get any worse, and this isn't THAT bad, right?" Well, judging from his trajectory so far, I think it could very well get much worse as his sanity slips more and more.
Not to mention Bannon. Notice how everyone has forgotten about how dangerous Bannon, the true believer, is with Trump in power? Everyone might want to keep him more on their radar than they are. While all attention is on Trump's steady mental breakdown, Bannon very well may be plotting away, and people aren't even going to notice. Now, I don't think the Bannon problem would totally go away without Trump, but I don't have any reason to believe that Pence would give him the kind of arena he wants or needs to accomplish some pretty fucked up things, because Pence isn't all wrapped up in the whole right wing media propaganda train like Trump is. What was a recent headline I read recently? Something like "Americans are witnessing a slow-motion rise of an authoritarian regime". Well, I couldn't agree more with that assessment. And I think that Pence would help to put a halt to that, simply because it's not his desire to do that.

I agree with you for the most part, but what has Trump actually accomplished as far as all this insane shit goes? It seems to me that everytime he tries to do something that's off the deep end he either gets shut down (Muslim ban) or can't seem to get any real traction (wall). As far as I've noticed, everything that's been passed policy-wise is the same thing that Pence would have done. Yeah he says some crazy shit, but 99% of the time that's all that it is, crazy shit. It doesn't actually translate into anything of substance that actually makes a difference on people. 

PJ_Soul

2018

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

RiotZact said:

PJ_Soul said:

I used to fear a Pence presidency more than I did a Trump presidency because of Pence's crazy religion mania. But not anymore. I didn't expect Trump to be THIS unhinged (silly me). He is doing all the things Pence would do in terms of the extreme right wing/religious stuff, AND Trump is just batshit crazy, out of control, irresponsible, and embarrassing to the extreme. Pence wouldn't do anything worse than what Trump will do, and he is under control. I am now fully convinced that Pence would be a much better option, even with his fucked up evangelical and sexist bullshit. At least Pence probably wouldn't lose his fucking mind like Trump has.

I agree, but is he so much better that we should focus ALL of our energy on making him president? Becuase that's what we're doing right now. 

I think the focus is on getting rid of Trump, not making Pence president. Obviously one follows the other, but the main intent is obviously to save America from an insane person, not to get an evangelical into the Oval Office. I think it is totally fair that there is so much energy being spent on thinking about how to get Trump out of office. I think the possibility of him doing real long-term damage to the country, the population, and the world is very real. I think his potential to truly lose his mind and completely go off the deep end (more than he already has) is dangerously high. I think anyone who is focused on finding a way to get him out of office somehow, before this happens, is pretty well justified. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are kind of thinking, "well, it couldn't get any worse, and this isn't THAT bad, right?" Well, judging from his trajectory so far, I think it could very well get much worse as his sanity slips more and more.
Not to mention Bannon. Notice how everyone has forgotten about how dangerous Bannon, the true believer, is with Trump in power? Everyone might want to keep him more on their radar than they are. While all attention is on Trump's steady mental breakdown, Bannon very well may be plotting away, and people aren't even going to notice. Now, I don't think the Bannon problem would totally go away without Trump, but I don't have any reason to believe that Pence would give him the kind of arena he wants or needs to accomplish some pretty fucked up things, because Pence isn't all wrapped up in the whole right wing media propaganda train like Trump is. What was a recent headline I read recently? Something like "Americans are witnessing a slow-motion rise of an authoritarian regime". Well, I couldn't agree more with that assessment. And I think that Pence would help to put a halt to that, simply because it's not his desire to do that.

I agree with you for the most part, but what has Trump actually accomplished as far as all this insane shit goes? It seems to me that everytime he tries to do something that's off the deep end he either gets shut down (Muslim ban) or can't seem to get any real traction (wall). As far as I've noticed, everything that's been passed policy-wise is the same thing that Pence would have done. Yeah he says some crazy shit, but 99% of the time that's all that it is, crazy shit. It doesn't actually translate into anything of substance that actually makes a difference on people. 

I strongly disagree that his crazy shit isn't making a difference on people for a few reasons:
1) His actions have had a PROFOUND effect on many immigrants who aren't citizens. on a micro-level, his directive re ICE actions have truly impacted many people in America; unjust deportations, community raids that have unfairly put so many people who actually contribute to the US positively in fear, is driving people who are legal to flee anyway out of fear of the future in America, and have very negatively impacted tourism, which has a HUGE direct impact economically. DO you have any idea how many Canadians alone are now refusing to enter the US, simply because they worry about the hassle at the border, and also out of general protest and being off-put? All of the cities along that border in the US are already suffering from it economically, and I have no reason to think it won't get worse. I feel like a lot of this has practically flown under the radar for white America because they aren't being impacted personally. But a lot of lives are indeed being literally destroyed directly because of Trump. Not to mention the terrible change in attitude in this context. A country built on immigration cannot thrive in such an atmosphere of fear and animosity that Trump has grown SO quickly. I know previous administrations also deported, etc etc, but it was not done in this terribly irresponsible and haphazard and aggressive and hateful way, and that makes all the difference in the world, both logistically and psychologically. And let's not forget the fucking "victims of immigrant crime" bullshit, and the way he very purposefully is growing racism in America. Hate crimes have skyrocketed since he took office, and white nationalists are in the White House. It's fucking crazy.

2) Foreign relations. Complete disaster. Trump has managed to largely tear down what took a couple of centuries to build in this context. That is a profound impact to say the least. The extent to which Trump has single-handedly managed to alienate all of America's allies is terrifying, and he did that in only 120 days or whatever. Imagine what he can do in years!! None of your allies trust America anymore. That is a really big deal that has real long-term consequences.

3) Women's rights and plain on human decency is being eroded by the US government. Trump is waging a war against Planned Parenthood and women's health around the world. This directly impacts millions of women. Not to mention he simple fact that Trump is a raging misogynistic pig. That really does have a real impact on people's perceptions and what is and isn't considered acceptable in society.

4) The environment. Obviously this makes a real difference on people, and Trump is a enemy of the environment, obviously. While he directly does thing to harm it, he is also working to stall innovation, which is just as if not more harmful. Well, here is a list of how he's doing with that during his very short time in office. Just imagine how much longer this list can get: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

5) Again, it's only 120 days or so into his presidency. And he's already fucked up THIS badly. I think it is a mistake to underestimate the other things he will do going forward. North Korea is a real issue that is getting worse fast, China truly views America and absolutely ridiculous - their state controlled media is having a grand time openly mocking him. Racism is booming. The country is more divided than ever. Look at his fucking cabinet for crying out loud. The FBI investigation, Russia.. good god, the fine details of Trump's reign so far are beyond disturbing. It's easy to say, "well, the sky isn't falling"..... But are you sure??? The media is so busy trying to deal with Trump's insanity that the details of all the horrible things he has done, is doing, and promises to do have, unbelievably, falling beneath the radar. I think there is very much a false sense of security building simply because the actual facts of the day to day impacts that Trump is having on people are being overshadowed by the gong show. Once has to do research for days to start to grasp the true differences that are directly harming Americans.

6)..... You know what, this list is just going to get too long. It already is way too long.

fife

just to add something to your list PJ.  what do you think is happening to the the guy who gave the info concerning ISIS to the Israeli government.  thats on Trump

rustneversleeps

good grief

PJ_Soul

2018

rustneversleeps said:

good grief

Oh, sorry for posting something! I know you can't handle it!

tbergs

fife said:

just to add something to your list PJ.  what do you think is happening to the the guy who gave the info concerning ISIS to the Israeli government.  thats on Trump

Great point. PJsoul's list are just what we know. I was wondering the same thing you raise Fife. What is going on behind closed doors? What types of torture and human's rights violations are occurring due to Trump doing what he is "legally" allowed to do? The man is the king of exploiting loopholes which have detrimental ripple effects, but what he thinks are his explicit privileges to having the power.

Utter disgrace to the human race.

RiotZact

Again, I completely agree with you on almost everything you're saying. The only point I'm making is that A.) Will Pence honestly be better with most of these things than Trump? He has endorsed him on almost all of these things, he just occasionally disagrees with Trump's wording becuase Trump has no filter, which is admittedly very important, but again, is it so important that we have to spend the next few years focusing every ounce of our energy on it? Also, you mentioned Women's rights and PP, do you really think that the guy who can't have a professional meeting with a woman without his wife's permission would be better? I think he would be far worse for women's rights. And B.) How long will this take to impeach Trump and how much additional havoc will he reek as he falls? 

Don't get me wrong, if Trump could be escorted out of the White House tomorrow, never to be seen again in the world of politics, then I'm all for it. But that's not how it works, at this rate it will take years for him to be completely gone and take an insane amount of our focus. Then in 2020 it's Mike Pence v. The same Democratic Party that royally fucked up the 2016 election, becuase we spent so much time and energy taking down Trump. 

And in the meantime, there's a pretty darn good chance that Trump will do something completely outrageous and get himself impeached overnight, then all of this hard work grasping at straws will have been for nothing.

HughFreakingDillon

2018

I think Pence would have terrible social policies, but at least he (probably) wouldn't ruin global relations to the point of nearly causing a global conflict. 

rustneversleeps

drama. paranoia. TDF. Thor Bless the World.

RiotZact

HughFreakingDillon said:

I think Pence would have terrible social policies, but at least he (probably) wouldn't ruin global relations to the point of nearly causing a global conflict. 

This is the main thing that is keeping me from totally abandoning the "bash Trump" train. But still, and I feel like a broken record here, has it proven to be enough of a problem that we need to focus every ounce of our energy on it?