It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
And occasionally people have open marriages. Still doesn't defend rape.
I never defended rape. Read more carefully.
I never said that you did. Didn't mean it that way. Apologies to you.
No worries, DEP. Everything's a fucking argument with those frequent AMT posters.
You saw this as an argument? I saw it as clarification. You know... people communicating in written language in the hopes of better understanding.
It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
And occasionally people have open marriages. Still doesn't defend rape.
I never defended rape. Read more carefully.
I never said that you did. Didn't mean it that way. Apologies to you.
No worries, DEP. Everything's a fucking argument with those frequent AMT posters.
You saw this as an argument? I saw it as clarification. You know... people communicating in written language in the hopes of better understanding.
Nice judgement though.
Point proven.
Seems to me you're the one seeking an argument. Piss off.
Yes, she is married but they live separate lives. Separate bedrooms, no sex, etc. Not that any of that should matter. Nor should it matter if she kissed the guy. I can run stark naked down the street and it does not give any man permission to touch me, let alone penetrate me after I repeatedly said no. They may want to, but don't have that right. But thanks for representing the views of the population that have created this sense of shame and culpability that so many rape victims feel. No, really, thanks for that. Having survived it myself, I always wondered what kind of a jerk would actually think that way. Now I know.
Yes, she is married but they live separate lives. Separate bedrooms, no sex, etc. Not that any of that should matter. Nor should it matter if she kissed the guy. I can run stark naked down the street and it does not give any man permission to touch me, let alone penetrate me after I repeatedly said no. They may want to, but don't have that right. But thanks for representing the views of the population that have created this sense of shame and culpability that so many rape victims feel. No, really, thanks for that. Having survived it myself, I always wondered what kind of a jerk would actually think that way. Now I know.
That's not what thirtybills was saying at all though, he was commenting on the relevancy of the husband in regards to a response to the traumatic event. There was no acceptance of approval of the rape, or question of whether it was or was not.
You CAN run stark naked down the street and no person has a right to violate you, but depending on the terms of your marriage, your husband might not be too happy with you for doing so. That difference was the essence of what thirtybills was saying.
I was answering a couple of people's comments in that post. The marriage part was the least of it and I get where that was coming from so I wanted to give a little more background. I didn't want to quote whose comments I was responding to because I didn't want to bait them into making more asinine statements that would surely get everyone even more riled up. But I made my point.
And for the record...even if I did run around stark naked, my husband would be there to protect me, not shame me if something were to happen. Because that's what real men do.
It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
Actually this was his first comment regarding the matter. Where he is focused on her "behaviour", I will give that he did state that it was rape but WTF does anyone's behaviour have to do with it, or whether they are married or not, or any fucking thing other than the were attacked by a predator. So you can try to defend his follow up statements all you want, but the statement above is a big fucking part of why rape is under reported. And that is wrong and is what needs to change. When you understand that you will be one step closer to being part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Anything you lose from being honest You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
It's 2017, and men still can't discuss anything about the female reproductive system without making it about men.
I send checks to and volunteer for reproductive rights organizations, but I tend to stay out of any discussions because while I do have a view (which I might feel is supportive), I feel as though I have no right whatsoever in expressing that view.
Anyway, keep marching, ladies! We've still got a long way to go!
Post edited by dankind on
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Still talking about the husband?!!! Who gives a crap about the husband?!
Still talking about the husband?!!! Who gives a crap about the husband?!
The husband'a role here is to be a support to his wife, given that she's going through this trauma. Full stop. It isn't about him. If he can't be a support to her now, this isn't a true marriage.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Sorry for the heavy subject but I'm curious on people's opinions.... Here's the scenario: Woman spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two. He suggests stopping at a playground along the way. They lay down on the slide, continue kissing, as he tries to pull her pants off. She says no three times but then blacks out somewhat and the deed is done. Who considers that rape?
That is very clearly rape. It's not complicated. If the woman says no and/or is unconscious or otherwise unable to give consent, it's rape. The first time she said no and he continued, it became rape. The law agrees (those enforcing the law might be fucked up enough to try and defend the rapist, but that isn't relevant to your question).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I was answering a couple of people's comments in that post. The marriage part was the least of it and I get where that was coming from so I wanted to give a little more background. I didn't want to quote whose comments I was responding to because I didn't want to bait them into making more asinine statements that would surely get everyone even more riled up. But I made my point.
Being married to the rapist is, of course, irrelevant.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Some people have taken a pretty big leap thinking I've questioned the rape aspect of this case because I questioned the victim's moral conduct in the bar.
Here's my take (and it's been consistent all along, Northern):
1. Woman got raped. She did nothing to warrant getting raped. Rapist needs to be slapped and kicked in the balls, but legal action would suffice. If nothing is done... this asshole is free to do it again to someone else.
2. Woman acted in a manner I wouldn't have wanted my wife to act like in the bar.
Now with regards to 2... it has since come out that the marriage is somewhat of a sham. In that case... I can understand the gal seeking attention when she doesn't get it at home.
But again... rape. Rapist needs a beat down. Woman needs to take steps to deal with the trauma and likely to either repair a damaged marriage or move to a happier spot in life.
(I didn't even see your post FWIW. Thirty. I was just making a general comment about spousal rape, since the topic was out there. Though I'm not even sure why the woman's behaviour is being discussed at all, or what in the world her reasoning or motivation in hanging with her husband have to do with anything. I honestly didn't even think about those factors. Who gives a shit if or why she was seeking attention or how she was acting in a bar?? What difference does it make here?) )
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
(I didn't even see your post FWIW. Thirty. I was just making a general comment about spousal rape, since the topic was out there. Though I'm not even sure why the woman's behaviour is being discussed at all, or what in the world her reasoning or motivation in hanging with her husband have to do with anything. I honestly didn't even think about those factors. Who gives a shit if or why she was seeking attention or how she was acting in a bar?? What difference does it make here?) )
Just an interesting aspect to the story.
I missed it the first time I read the post in which that detail was offered. A post sought clarification to which I thought about it for a second and basically thought, "That hubby is likely digesting a lot." I think it's fair to say he is.
In hindsight... had I known people would spin it to victim blaming or defecting the bulk of the crisis to the husband... I'd have offered nothing. I should have known better.
It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
This has been bugging me.
I reread the post that Northern referred to and I see that the first sentence might have caused confusion for some.
As RG tried to explain (I think), that statement was not made in reference to her inviting rape. It was made in the context of considering the husband's perspective as he tries to come to terms with the reality of his wife seeking the attention of another man.
And I'm not saying he's the victim we should feel sorry for by mentioning it. I only mentioned it.
Anyone who knows me knows that I view rapists as some of the lowest forms of life there are... and the crime of rape as indefensible and subject to the strongest penalties we might offer.
It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
This has been bugging me.
I reread the post that Northern referred to and I see that the first sentence might have caused confusion for some.
As RG tried to explain (I think), that statement was not made in reference to her inviting rape. It was made in the context of considering the husband's perspective as he tries to come to terms with the reality of his wife seeking the attention of another man.
And I'm not saying he's the victim we should feel sorry for by mentioning it. I only mentioned it.
Anyone who knows me knows that I view rapists as some of the lowest forms of life there are... and the crime of rape as indefensible and subject to the strongest penalties we might offer.
I completely understood the point you were making and its context. Sorry that others have interpreted it differently and unfairly attacked you.
It's kind of relevant in that she was flirting and cozying up to some shitbird.
It's still rape, but if I'm the husband... I don't think I'm pleased that she "spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two."
This has been bugging me.
I reread the post that Northern referred to and I see that the first sentence might have caused confusion for some.
As RG tried to explain (I think), that statement was not made in reference to her inviting rape. It was made in the context of considering the husband's perspective as he tries to come to terms with the reality of his wife seeking the attention of another man.
And I'm not saying he's the victim we should feel sorry for by mentioning it. I only mentioned it.
Anyone who knows me knows that I view rapists as some of the lowest forms of life there are... and the crime of rape as indefensible and subject to the strongest penalties we might offer.
I completely understood the point you were making and its context. Sorry that others have interpreted it differently and unfairly attacked you.
I'm not sure it matters at all if the broad is married. Or if she was out to cheat on her husband. Or if she was just out to have fun and drank too much. Who fucking csres if you think the husband should be mad? The point is some fucking douche bag raped a woman who was unconscious. Nothing else really matters.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Sorry for the heavy subject but I'm curious on people's opinions.... Here's the scenario: Woman spends a night at a bar with a guy having a good time. She says it's time to go home and he offers to walk her. She's being flirty and they share a kiss or two. He suggests stopping at a playground along the way. They lay down on the slide, continue kissing, as he tries to pull her pants off. She says no three times but then blacks out somewhat and the deed is done. Who considers that rape?
any sane human being.thats who.
heres a better question, after being told no 3 times, who considers that consensual sex?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
There was no acceptance of approval of the rape, or question of whether it was or was not.
You CAN run stark naked down the street and no person has a right to violate you, but depending on the terms of your marriage, your husband might not be too happy with you for doing so. That difference was the essence of what thirtybills was saying.
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
I send checks to and volunteer for reproductive rights organizations, but I tend to stay out of any discussions because while I do have a view (which I might feel is supportive), I feel as though I have no right whatsoever in expressing that view.
Anyway, keep marching, ladies! We've still got a long way to go!
Some people have taken a pretty big leap thinking I've questioned the rape aspect of this case because I questioned the victim's moral conduct in the bar.
Here's my take (and it's been consistent all along, Northern):
1. Woman got raped. She did nothing to warrant getting raped. Rapist needs to be slapped and kicked in the balls, but legal action would suffice. If nothing is done... this asshole is free to do it again to someone else.
2. Woman acted in a manner I wouldn't have wanted my wife to act like in the bar.
Now with regards to 2... it has since come out that the marriage is somewhat of a sham. In that case... I can understand the gal seeking attention when she doesn't get it at home.
But again... rape. Rapist needs a beat down. Woman needs to take steps to deal with the trauma and likely to either repair a damaged marriage or move to a happier spot in life.
I missed it the first time I read the post in which that detail was offered. A post sought clarification to which I thought about it for a second and basically thought, "That hubby is likely digesting a lot." I think it's fair to say he is.
In hindsight... had I known people would spin it to victim blaming or defecting the bulk of the crisis to the husband... I'd have offered nothing. I should have known better.
And yes, it is rape
I reread the post that Northern referred to and I see that the first sentence might have caused confusion for some.
As RG tried to explain (I think), that statement was not made in reference to her inviting rape. It was made in the context of considering the husband's perspective as he tries to come to terms with the reality of his wife seeking the attention of another man.
And I'm not saying he's the victim we should feel sorry for by mentioning it. I only mentioned it.
Anyone who knows me knows that I view rapists as some of the lowest forms of life there are... and the crime of rape as indefensible and subject to the strongest penalties we might offer.
we will find a way, we will find our place
heres a better question, after being told no 3 times, who considers that consensual sex?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14