Who really sympathizes with Castro?

24

Comments

  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    Carl and Mordeccai Marx, Yankel Yurovsky, Moses Hess, Leon Trotsky, Genrikh Yagoda, Filip Filipović, Josip Broz Tito, Mao Tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, Hugo Chaves,
    some really nice people.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited November 2016
    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    rssesq said:

    Carl and Mordeccai Marx, Yankel Yurovsky, Moses Hess, Leon Trotsky, Genrikh Yagoda, Filip Filipović, Josip Broz Tito, Mao Tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, Hugo Chaves,
    some really nice people.

    That funny looking commie Che too.
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    unsung said:

    rssesq said:

    Carl and Mordeccai Marx, Yankel Yurovsky, Moses Hess, Leon Trotsky, Genrikh Yagoda, Filip Filipović, Josip Broz Tito, Mao Tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, Hugo Chaves,
    some really nice people.

    That funny looking commie Che too.
    cant forget Nicolae Ceaușescu. what a mensch.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
    I understand all that... and that still doesn't excuse Castro's tyrannical actions. That also doesn't excuse the tyrannical actions of others, but we're talking about Castro right now.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,771
    edited November 2016
    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
    But did those us presidents torture and/or kill their own citizens?
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    rssesq said:

    unsung said:

    rssesq said:

    Carl and Mordeccai Marx, Yankel Yurovsky, Moses Hess, Leon Trotsky, Genrikh Yagoda, Filip Filipović, Josip Broz Tito, Mao Tse Tung, Ho Chi Minh, Hugo Chaves,
    some really nice people.

    That funny looking commie Che too.
    cant forget Nicolae Ceaușescu. what a mensch.
    Jeez, you can't make it through a single post without some sort of reference to Jewish people or culture.

    You are obsessed and deranged.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
    But did those us presidents torture and/or kill their own citizens?
    Please pass on independent articles that says he tortured or killed his own citizens ... again - the US has been trying to overthrow Castro for nearly half a century ... that involves mounting PR campaigns ... there was for sure suppression of political freedom and imprisonment of dissidents (again - not cool) ... but I don't believe him to be this murderous tyrant that some have him portrayed as ...
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,771
    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
    But did those us presidents torture and/or kill their own citizens?
    Please pass on independent articles that says he tortured or killed his own citizens ... again - the US has been trying to overthrow Castro for nearly half a century ... that involves mounting PR campaigns ... there was for sure suppression of political freedom and imprisonment of dissidents (again - not cool) ... but I don't believe him to be this murderous tyrant that some have him portrayed as ...
    I should have quantified that with me saying I have no independent knowledge of him doing that. it is a perception that I honestly just took for granted as true. My bad.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    here is amnesty international's write up on Castro's legacy ... yes, he killed people immediately after the revolution ... i don't think anyone can say for certain if these people were guilty of whatever they were killed for ... but the notion that he killed and tortured innocent people during his reign is simply not factually backed up ...

    https://www.amnesty.ca/news/fidel-castro’s-human-rights-legacy-tale-two-worlds
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    I personally don't like to defend murderers who severely suppress rights and freedoms. But that's just me.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    Put political ideologies aside, who really thinks we lost something with Castro's death??

    Other commies.
    Well I'm a socialist and I don't mourn him simply because he was a tyrannical dictator. I don't go for that, even though I like Communism itself. Too bad Communism is always hijacked by people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. Tyrannical dictatorships are not really Communist governments. They just stole the term and twisted Communism into an ugly cousin.
    how do you define tyrannical? ... he may have been a dictator but tyrannical ... I don't think so ...
    He punished all forms of dissent, harassed and intimidated those with opposing views, had dissenters murdered or threw them in horrible prisons, had repressive policies, he allowed no judiciary freedom, doled out public punishments, and held all three of the most powerful positions in government himself. He cracked down on journalists, trade unionists, and human rights advocates. He had them put in inhumane prisons and subjected them to beatings, denied them medical care, etc. His government refused to recognize the legitimacy of all human rights organizations, among others. There is no freedom of the press. I personally consider these actions extremely tyrannical. This is actually the definition of tyrannical. I have no clue how you've figured he wasn't.
    where are you getting this stuff!?? ... check out amnesty international's views on cuba ... yes, some of the stuff he is responsible for such as his actions against political opponents is true however, not to say that it's right, but he's operated in a region that has had US imperialism fuck it up from mexico to chile ... he's governed a country that has been under threat of overthrow from the mighty US for decades ... do you know how the US often fucks around with countries like Cuba ... they create disinformation campaigns, fund rallies, and if possible arm rebel groups ... if there was no threat of US intervention - there likely would have been more freedom of press ... but this notion that he murdered innocent people is not substantiated by any independent source ...
    Not innocent in his mind, I'm sure. I am not sure how you so casually dismiss repression like that. For me, such tyranny and the muzzling of political dissent and freedom of the press has literally no good excuse. I would NEVER lower myself to make excuses for Castro's tyranny, no matter what my other views relating to him are. I have higher standards than that.
    I'm sure you are aware that it's not a black and white issue/ After all that said about Castro, I don't and never did support America's embargo against Cuba. That was fucking stupid given how stunningly hypocritical it was. And it's even more stupid and even more hypocritical that Trump is threatening to bring it back.
    it's not about casually dismissing ... it's called understanding what he was up against and what history showed us ... you do know that ever single US president since Castro has been in power has been responsible for more deaths than Castro? ... you calling any of them tyrannical? ... and it's not just about the embargo ... it's about all the covert ops they've tried in Cuba since Castro took over ...
    How many deaths was bill Clinton responsible for? Besides,how can you calculate that? Are there even accurate reports of the people Castro murdered?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    image

    Again, a good sign that you suck as a leader as when your people set adrift at sea in this ...
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    And after they landed in Florida, a homeless person probably used their raft to make a shelter.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    4 Categories of Castro Apologetics, and the Anti-Individualism That Knits Them Together - I'm guessing #2 is the most popular flavor of apologists on the AMT. Regardless, this sums it up for me:
    No, the only way in which you can say Castro's authoritarian banning "worked" is if you deny the plight and agency of the individual, and subsume it all in favor of an up-down measurement of the collectivized state. This is, in the final analysis, what all these categories of apologetics have in common—the euphemism, the whataboutism, the juvenilia, the outsourcing of judgment to celebrities: They all gloss over or plow under or just ignore the fate of individual people suffering under a dictatorship.

    That's a lesson for all of us. When your argument about a politician or a policy or a system waves an impatient hand when presented with acts of individual repression, it's a good time to step back from the keyboard or microphone or legislative drafting session and check yourself. Human beings are not here on this earth to provide propaganda fodder for a despot's statistics bureau; they are here to be free and to pursue happiness as they see fit.

    The United States falls short of this ideal every day, which provides excellent reason to get up and get after it in the morning. But recognizing failure here (preferably by its non-euphemistic name) does not grant a blanket excuse for downplaying it elsewhere.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    sean penn of course. what the hell happened to Spicoli?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    Just be careful that you're not an apologist for American individualism at the same time.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177

    Just be careful that you're not an apologist for American individualism at the same time.

    I am an apologist for individualism. Doesn't need the "American" qualification. I don't have much interest in nationalism.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08