Obama, "Illegals can vote"

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

lukin2006 said:

bootlegger10 said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

Nobody is disputing legal immigration.

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

I say this all the time to people. not once have I received a non-eye-rolled response.

I roll my eyes because it isn't a fair analogy. Because my ancestors came here legally and went through Ellis Island, that means we should ignore all immigration laws and just let anyone in and vote? Or rewind a few hundred more years to the first pilgrims, and say how unfair it is we inhabited their land. Sure, we didn't do it in the right way, but what does that have to do with current immigration laws with a country that we established on this land that was previously occupied by people stuck in the stone age?
There are still lots of legal immigrants to the US, and lots become citizens and vote. I don't see what that has to do with allowing people
to do it illegally.

LMFAO ... you just don't get it do you? You, your and my ancestors are living on stolen land, period. How hard is that to understand, thats why I don't give a shit about Obama being the first black president or Clinton being the first woman president means shit to me, absolutely nothing ... want to impress me, when a first nation person become president then I'll be impressed, until then you, me and any non first nations person is living on stolen land...so whenever I get a chance I will always encourage our governments to properly engage our first nations people's and get on with the business of dealing respectfully with our first nations people. At least here in Canada our first nations are a thought for our politicians during elections, then their needs become an afterthought as usual...

They lived on stolen land too. Your history books told you they all lived in peace and harmony together? They killed each other and stole land as fast as we did.

one has zero to do with the other. all across the globe different tribes and groups war over territory. all animals do that, including humans. doesn't mean it was ok to come here and try to wipe them out and then say "hey, we came here and slaughtered everyone, BUT IT WAS TOTALLY LEGAL, now no one else gets in, mmmkay?".

JC29856

Sanctity of the vote!
Precincts in Philly opened at 845 not 7 and with only 1 machine at 940 they installed another machine. There was a line of 20 at 7am most left by 730.
Officials say...historically low voter turnout, they never had lines and the person manning the station quit.
Democracy in action!

Cliffy6745

JC29856 said:

Sanctity of the vote!
Precincts in Philly opened at 845 not 7 and with only 1 machine at 940 they installed another machine. There was a line of 20 at 7am most left by 730.
Officials say...historically low voter turnout, they never had lines and the person manning the station quit.
Democracy in action!

Where are you seeing this? Haven't seen anything about this here in Philly. This would be Hillary voters though.

There were late arriving machines for a co-workers precinct but it was open on time.

Bentleyspop

JC29856 said:

Sanctity of the vote!
Precincts in Philly opened at 845 not 7 and with only 1 machine at 940 they installed another machine. There was a line of 20 at 7am most left by 730.
Officials say...historically low voter turnout, they never had lines and the person manning the station quit.
Democracy in action!

Precincts?
Every precinct open late with only one working machine?

Okie doke

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

lukin2006 said:

bootlegger10 said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

Nobody is disputing legal immigration.

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

I say this all the time to people. not once have I received a non-eye-rolled response.

I roll my eyes because it isn't a fair analogy. Because my ancestors came here legally and went through Ellis Island, that means we should ignore all immigration laws and just let anyone in and vote? Or rewind a few hundred more years to the first pilgrims, and say how unfair it is we inhabited their land. Sure, we didn't do it in the right way, but what does that have to do with current immigration laws with a country that we established on this land that was previously occupied by people stuck in the stone age?
There are still lots of legal immigrants to the US, and lots become citizens and vote. I don't see what that has to do with allowing people
to do it illegally.

LMFAO ... you just don't get it do you? You, your and my ancestors are living on stolen land, period. How hard is that to understand, thats why I don't give a shit about Obama being the first black president or Clinton being the first woman president means shit to me, absolutely nothing ... want to impress me, when a first nation person become president then I'll be impressed, until then you, me and any non first nations person is living on stolen land...so whenever I get a chance I will always encourage our governments to properly engage our first nations people's and get on with the business of dealing respectfully with our first nations people. At least here in Canada our first nations are a thought for our politicians during elections, then their needs become an afterthought as usual...

They lived on stolen land too. Your history books told you they all lived in peace and harmony together? They killed each other and stole land as fast as we did.

one has zero to do with the other. all across the globe different tribes and groups war over territory. all animals do that, including humans. doesn't mean it was ok to come here and try to wipe them out and then say "hey, we came here and slaughtered everyone, BUT IT WAS TOTALLY LEGAL, now no one else gets in, mmmkay?".

I agree one doesn't have anything to do with the other, until the argument for illegal immigration is using immigration laws from hundreds of years ago, or the argument that my ancestors were immigrants to explain how our current immigration laws are not right, then I think its a fair point to bring up-because the opposing argument brought it up not me. So if an argument is that we're on stolen land so we have no right to it, then tell me which native tribe has the rights who didn't steal it from each other? Most likely a tribe we've never heard of because they've been wiped out for thousands of years when they got their land stolen by a stronger, bigger tribe. And like you said, its part of animal and human nature, so why are we held accountable for what happened hundreds of years ago, but no one else?

Here are the issues I have with the previous statements.
Because Europeans came and took over the land and established a government where there was previously no government hundreds of years ago, based on that we don't have the right to enforce immigration laws when we create an established government, arguable one of the best in the world?

Second: "now no one else gets in, mmmkay?" 100% untrue. Why does everyone for open boarders or lesser immigration laws claim we don't let anyone in? There are millions of LEGAL immigrants who have come to this country in the last few years. No one is saying close all boarders and let no one in- no one. (I'm sorry if my assumption on your immigration stance is incorrect, but everyone else I know who makes similar claims also wants open boarders, so I believe it is a fair assumption.)

Why does our nation's history mean we can no longer be a nation-because in order to be a nation you need boarders and you need to enforce those boarders. No other nation doesn't.
I'm not saying what happened was okay. I am saying just because it happened doesn't mean we can't enforce immigration laws today.

JC29856

Cliffy6745 said:

JC29856 said:

Sanctity of the vote!
Precincts in Philly opened at 845 not 7 and with only 1 machine at 940 they installed another machine. There was a line of 20 at 7am most left by 730.
Officials say...historically low voter turnout, they never had lines and the person manning the station quit.
Democracy in action!

Where are you seeing this? Haven't seen anything about this here in Philly. This would be Hillary voters though.

There were late arriving machines for a co-workers precinct but it was open on time.

Was on Fox29 Philly...maybe it's on their website.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

lukin2006 said:

bootlegger10 said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

Nobody is disputing legal immigration.

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lukin2006 said:

Unless your a first nations person, your living on stolen land and your all immigrants...

I say this all the time to people. not once have I received a non-eye-rolled response.

I roll my eyes because it isn't a fair analogy. Because my ancestors came here legally and went through Ellis Island, that means we should ignore all immigration laws and just let anyone in and vote? Or rewind a few hundred more years to the first pilgrims, and say how unfair it is we inhabited their land. Sure, we didn't do it in the right way, but what does that have to do with current immigration laws with a country that we established on this land that was previously occupied by people stuck in the stone age?
There are still lots of legal immigrants to the US, and lots become citizens and vote. I don't see what that has to do with allowing people
to do it illegally.

LMFAO ... you just don't get it do you? You, your and my ancestors are living on stolen land, period. How hard is that to understand, thats why I don't give a shit about Obama being the first black president or Clinton being the first woman president means shit to me, absolutely nothing ... want to impress me, when a first nation person become president then I'll be impressed, until then you, me and any non first nations person is living on stolen land...so whenever I get a chance I will always encourage our governments to properly engage our first nations people's and get on with the business of dealing respectfully with our first nations people. At least here in Canada our first nations are a thought for our politicians during elections, then their needs become an afterthought as usual...

They lived on stolen land too. Your history books told you they all lived in peace and harmony together? They killed each other and stole land as fast as we did.

one has zero to do with the other. all across the globe different tribes and groups war over territory. all animals do that, including humans. doesn't mean it was ok to come here and try to wipe them out and then say "hey, we came here and slaughtered everyone, BUT IT WAS TOTALLY LEGAL, now no one else gets in, mmmkay?".

I agree one doesn't have anything to do with the other, until the argument for illegal immigration is using immigration laws from hundreds of years ago, or the argument that my ancestors were immigrants to explain how our current immigration laws are not right, then I think its a fair point to bring up-because the opposing argument brought it up not me. So if an argument is that we're on stolen land so we have no right to it, then tell me which native tribe has the rights who didn't steal it from each other? Most likely a tribe we've never heard of because they've been wiped out for thousands of years when they got their land stolen by a stronger, bigger tribe. And like you said, its part of animal and human nature, so why are we held accountable for what happened hundreds of years ago, but no one else?

Here are the issues I have with the previous statements.
Because Europeans came and took over the land and established a government where there was previously no government hundreds of years ago, based on that we don't have the right to enforce immigration laws when we create an established government, arguable one of the best in the world?

Second: "now no one else gets in, mmmkay?" 100% untrue. Why does everyone for open boarders or lesser immigration laws claim we don't let anyone in? There are millions of LEGAL immigrants who have come to this country in the last few years. No one is saying close all boarders and let no one in- no one. (I'm sorry if my assumption on your immigration stance is incorrect, but everyone else I know who makes similar claims also wants open boarders, so I believe it is a fair assumption.)

Why does our nation's history mean we can no longer be a nation-because in order to be a nation you need boarders and you need to enforce those boarders. No other nation doesn't.
I'm not saying what happened was okay. I am saying just because it happened doesn't mean we can't enforce immigration laws today.

all your points are fair. the "now no one gets in, mmmkay" is more of a comment from me about all the anti-immigrant pro-christian values of our "nation's founders" rhretoric I hear at this time of year (my Mom-and also some friends-sends emails and posts shit on facbeook all the time about this). it drives me insane. that was the point I was trying to make, which was in direct response to lukin's comment, which may or may not have been related to current immigration laws. I think we may be debating apples and oranges here.

And no, I don't want open borders. I'm not even totally clear on what that means. I think responsible immigration is where it's at.