PJ meets with Hillary
Comments
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Are you a drama queen? Just for the record I don't think for a minute that you'd join the fight, people like you that are so eager to commit our troops to conflicts on the other side of the world are blowhards...BS44325 said:
Oh. Is that your real question because it sounds like the classic "chickenhawk" dodge everyone on the AMT uses when questions of difficult foreign policy choices arise. Maybe all us citizens should say nothing and just let generals decide when to use the military, after all only they are qualified to speak on it. Hmmm...my guess is you wouldn't like that. Or let's reinstate the draft and force enlistment instead of sending individuals who have the passion and skills for that type of service....but my guess is you wouldn't like thay either. Anyways...not to dodge your question...in a time of war I will do what my country asks of me just like many Canadians did in previous global conflicts. I won't give you a hard time if you choose otherwise. Article 5 exists for a reason yet your attitude makes it meaningless. I'm sorry but to bring it back to the topic at hand, it will be the strength of that Article and not another live performance of Imagine that will bring peace in our time.lukin2006 said:
Well you didn't answer my question, are you going? You know, join the good fight? And I'll worry about article 5 when Estonia needso it invoked....but so far only the big bad us have needed it.BS44325 said:
Yes...individuals like you who would say "Estonia lol". Putin is relying on NATO saying "not our problem" and "lol". My guess is he'll be successful but at least you will still have your peace.lukin2006 said:
Individuals lik me? Article 5 has been invoked once in natos history, after 911. Estonia, lol, joined in 1999 when the west was expanding NATO with former Warsaw Pact members, lol...once again not our problem.BS44325 said:
Russia is positioning itself to enter Estonia. Do we know if they will? No but it is not paranoia and if anything it would be a dereliction of duty not to prepare for it. Estonia is a member of NATO and should an invasion occur we would have to invoke Article 5 and then we would be at war. The question is whether we would or whether it would become a Peace For Our Time moment just like when Czechoslovakia was served over to Hitler on a plate. Putin is betting that the west is made up of more individuals like you.lukin2006 said:
Then if you support war you, politicians and investors and upper management in weapons manufactures should be the first off of the landing craft...when that happens, let's talk, and if those were the rules of war, we'd have fewer wars. And enough with the paranoia about being invaded, holy shit...no one is invading us, no one was invading us during WW2 as well.BS44325 said:
Except the lesson of those wars is that evil when it exists must be confronted otherwise it spreads and eventually reaches one's shore. "Peace in our Time" was and still is an illusion.lukin2006 said:
Maybe after WW2 for a very short time. Lol. I'm under no illusion, the world is a dangerous place. But if Canada and the US can coexist without conflict with each other for over 200 years then I do think peace is possible...I just think these hotspots throughout the world has to be sorted out regionally without the west involvement. I don't mean to sound cold but I and many other Canadians had family members who served in both world wars so we could enjoy peace, freedom and our way of life peacefully...I no longer want Canadians coming back with PTSD, limbs missing, battle wounds and in body bags because our government actually thinks getting involved in these hotspots make a difference...I would like our military used for defence and peacekeeping only.Go Beavers said:
Your anger is understandable and your answer to my question about measuring peace is imbedded in there.lukin2006 said:Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
First off who anointed the US as the world police and decider of what good democracy stands for. I'm witnessing your fake pathetic democracy at work everyday...nothing to be proud of or no reason to promote your democracy throughout the world, it's not that great if these candidates are the best you can do out of 330 + million people. Isn't your military budget bigger than the next 22 countries or so combined? Why is that? It's not for defence, the nuclear weapons are your defence against attack. I would think after constant war in the Middle East and with the conclusion of one conflict another hotspot arises in the region and sometimes even worse than before someone would want try another approach, like getting the fuck out and quit using drones and machinery of war on innocent people...and leave the Middle East to their own devices, they'll either figure it out or they won't, their choice.Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
Also, would you say there was a time in the past where there was greater peace?
When article 5 is invoked, are you off to join the fight?Post edited by lukin2006 onI have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
I know I'm behind in this dicussion, but when have they openly regretted the ticket master fight? I've never seen that. I have always believed that had other bands joined them instead of allowing the band to fight it alone, they could have made a difference.HughFreakingDillon said:
they fought ticketmaster because they know what they do is bullshit. they now realize that was a stupid fight, and it only cost them shows, money, and some fans. it was a losing battle they now openly regret fighting.BS44325 said:
Celebrity changes everybody unfortunately. This election is far more of a globalist class battle then it is anything else and once you get to participate in that global elite upper crust, regardless of how you got there, you tend to still support it. Pearl Jam with time has bought into that group. They say the right things, just like Clinton does from time to time, but on the whole they perpetuate and maintain the status quo. This is no longer the band that fought ticketmaster and testified before congress...they now lock arms with congress.brianlux said:I grew up on the kind of rock and roll that rocked the establishment way more than rolling with it. Not that that is the PRIME purpose of rock and roll, but it lies deep in the foundation and spirit of the music and it certainly had a lot to do with how Pearl Jam started out. So from that perspective (admittedly subject to argument) it's hard for me to not see PJ fund raising for Clinton to by anything but very "establishment".
But there can never be resolution to this kind of discussion because we've seen the same set of arguments every which way about this band. So let the facts stand for themselves: Early on, Pearl Jam was young, wild and had a degree of socio-political flavor to their energetic bravado. Mid period, they honed their craft and became a better band and presented a more clear message. Later on they became middle-aged, family-oriented and began to move to the center politically and became more polished but less creative artistically. Sometimes this happens, sometimes not (for example, the likes of Neil Young and John Lydon have maintained a socio-political tendency in much of their art). And we all get to choose our flavor.
I like all kinds of music and respect any artist that gives it their best at every turn (Pearl Jam included) but I always rue the loss or quieting of strong outspoken voices or having them just rest on their laurels. I hope that isn't the case here.
they testified before congress because they were asked to, not the other way around.
lock arms with congress? that's laughable. they still have many causes they are for and against. Ed just doesn't always scream about them at shows anymore. he's matured. he realizes that doesn't accomplish much.will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0 -
it was mentioned in the PJ20 book. It was either Kelly Curtis or Mike that said it.Degeneratefk said:
I know I'm behind in this dicussion, but when have they openly regretted the ticket master fight? I've never seen that. I have always believed that had other bands joined them instead of allowing the band to fight it alone, they could have made a difference.HughFreakingDillon said:
they fought ticketmaster because they know what they do is bullshit. they now realize that was a stupid fight, and it only cost them shows, money, and some fans. it was a losing battle they now openly regret fighting.BS44325 said:
Celebrity changes everybody unfortunately. This election is far more of a globalist class battle then it is anything else and once you get to participate in that global elite upper crust, regardless of how you got there, you tend to still support it. Pearl Jam with time has bought into that group. They say the right things, just like Clinton does from time to time, but on the whole they perpetuate and maintain the status quo. This is no longer the band that fought ticketmaster and testified before congress...they now lock arms with congress.brianlux said:I grew up on the kind of rock and roll that rocked the establishment way more than rolling with it. Not that that is the PRIME purpose of rock and roll, but it lies deep in the foundation and spirit of the music and it certainly had a lot to do with how Pearl Jam started out. So from that perspective (admittedly subject to argument) it's hard for me to not see PJ fund raising for Clinton to by anything but very "establishment".
But there can never be resolution to this kind of discussion because we've seen the same set of arguments every which way about this band. So let the facts stand for themselves: Early on, Pearl Jam was young, wild and had a degree of socio-political flavor to their energetic bravado. Mid period, they honed their craft and became a better band and presented a more clear message. Later on they became middle-aged, family-oriented and began to move to the center politically and became more polished but less creative artistically. Sometimes this happens, sometimes not (for example, the likes of Neil Young and John Lydon have maintained a socio-political tendency in much of their art). And we all get to choose our flavor.
I like all kinds of music and respect any artist that gives it their best at every turn (Pearl Jam included) but I always rue the loss or quieting of strong outspoken voices or having them just rest on their laurels. I hope that isn't the case here.
they testified before congress because they were asked to, not the other way around.
lock arms with congress? that's laughable. they still have many causes they are for and against. Ed just doesn't always scream about them at shows anymore. he's matured. he realizes that doesn't accomplish much.
I think you are right, and I think the band probably hoped that would happen too. it's really too bad, it could have avoided the mess we're in with ticket prices and secondary sites if that had happened.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I honestly had no idea... interestingmcgruff10 said:
and balloons!Go Beavers said:Japan dropped fire bombs a couple times on the Oregon coast. Only ine started a fire that they put out quickly. The town had the Japanese pilot visit several times since, and he gave the town, Brookings, his samurai sword. He also planted a tree at the site if the bombing as a gesture of peace. His daughter buried some of his ashes there, too.
1945:: A Japanese balloon bomb kills six people in rural eastern Oregon. They are the only World War II U.S. combat casualties in the 48 states.
Made of rubberized silk or paper, each balloon was about 33 feet in diameter. Barometer-operated valves released hydrogen if the balloon gained too much altitude or dropped sandbags if it flew too low.
In all, the Japanese released an estimated 9,000 fire balloons. At least 342 reached the United States. Some drifted as far as Nebraska. Some were shot down.
Some caused minor damage when they landed, but no injuries. One hit a power line and temporarily blacked out the nuclear-weapons plant at Hanford, Washington.
But the only known casualties from the 9,000 balllons — and the only combat deaths from any cause on the U.S. mainland — were the five kids and their Sunday school teacher going to a picnic.0 -
Ahhh right...drama queen. Yes. People said similar about Winston Churchill prior to WWII. He was just "eager to commit troops to conflict on the other side of the world and was a blowhard". Now I wouldn't dare compare myself to Churchill but I would compare you to those that disparaged his foresight and/or encouraged the sellout of allies to Germany for a phoney "Peace for our time". Estonia is our ally as per NATO whether you like it or not and the only question is whether under a worst-case-scenerio we are willing to backstop our treaties with force.lukin2006 said:
Are you a drama queen? Just for the record I don't think for a minute that you'd join the fight, people like you that are so eager to commit our troops to conflicts on the other side of the world are blowhards...BS44325 said:
Oh. Is that your real question because it sounds like the classic "chickenhawk" dodge everyone on the AMT uses when questions of difficult foreign policy choices arise. Maybe all us citizens should say nothing and just let generals decide when to use the military, after all only they are qualified to speak on it. Hmmm...my guess is you wouldn't like that. Or let's reinstate the draft and force enlistment instead of sending individuals who have the passion and skills for that type of service....but my guess is you wouldn't like thay either. Anyways...not to dodge your question...in a time of war I will do what my country asks of me just like many Canadians did in previous global conflicts. I won't give you a hard time if you choose otherwise. Article 5 exists for a reason yet your attitude makes it meaningless. I'm sorry but to bring it back to the topic at hand, it will be the strength of that Article and not another live performance of Imagine that will bring peace in our time.lukin2006 said:
Well you didn't answer my question, are you going? You know, join the good fight? And I'll worry about article 5 when Estonia needso it invoked....but so far only the big bad us have needed it.BS44325 said:
Yes...individuals like you who would say "Estonia lol". Putin is relying on NATO saying "not our problem" and "lol". My guess is he'll be successful but at least you will still have your peace.lukin2006 said:
Individuals lik me? Article 5 has been invoked once in natos history, after 911. Estonia, lol, joined in 1999 when the west was expanding NATO with former Warsaw Pact members, lol...once again not our problem.BS44325 said:
Russia is positioning itself to enter Estonia. Do we know if they will? No but it is not paranoia and if anything it would be a dereliction of duty not to prepare for it. Estonia is a member of NATO and should an invasion occur we would have to invoke Article 5 and then we would be at war. The question is whether we would or whether it would become a Peace For Our Time moment just like when Czechoslovakia was served over to Hitler on a plate. Putin is betting that the west is made up of more individuals like you.lukin2006 said:
Then if you support war you, politicians and investors and upper management in weapons manufactures should be the first off of the landing craft...when that happens, let's talk, and if those were the rules of war, we'd have fewer wars. And enough with the paranoia about being invaded, holy shit...no one is invading us, no one was invading us during WW2 as well.BS44325 said:
Except the lesson of those wars is that evil when it exists must be confronted otherwise it spreads and eventually reaches one's shore. "Peace in our Time" was and still is an illusion.lukin2006 said:
Maybe after WW2 for a very short time. Lol. I'm under no illusion, the world is a dangerous place. But if Canada and the US can coexist without conflict with each other for over 200 years then I do think peace is possible...I just think these hotspots throughout the world has to be sorted out regionally without the west involvement. I don't mean to sound cold but I and many other Canadians had family members who served in both world wars so we could enjoy peace, freedom and our way of life peacefully...I no longer want Canadians coming back with PTSD, limbs missing, battle wounds and in body bags because our government actually thinks getting involved in these hotspots make a difference...I would like our military used for defence and peacekeeping only.Go Beavers said:
Your anger is understandable and your answer to my question about measuring peace is imbedded in there.lukin2006 said:Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
First off who anointed the US as the world police and decider of what good democracy stands for. I'm witnessing your fake pathetic democracy at work everyday...nothing to be proud of or no reason to promote your democracy throughout the world, it's not that great if these candidates are the best you can do out of 330 + million people. Isn't your military budget bigger than the next 22 countries or so combined? Why is that? It's not for defence, the nuclear weapons are your defence against attack. I would think after constant war in the Middle East and with the conclusion of one conflict another hotspot arises in the region and sometimes even worse than before someone would want try another approach, like getting the fuck out and quit using drones and machinery of war on innocent people...and leave the Middle East to their own devices, they'll either figure it out or they won't, their choice.Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
Also, would you say there was a time in the past where there was greater peace?
When article 5 is invoked, are you off to join the fight?
http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-missile-tests-western-border-iskander/28065301.html
LOL0 -
NATO is like the UN ant the EU just bloated bureaucracies, the original intent and signees of NATO I am fine with, as for these eastern block countries surrounding Russia that joined in late 1990's I am not fine with, simply put NATO signed these countries to take advantage of a weekend Russia...maybe these eastern block countries should form their own alliance to deal with Russia. I am always amazed at people wanting to commit our soldiers to armed conflicts on the other side of the world and for what? Well I'm not...BS44325 said:
Ahhh right...drama queen. Yes. People said similar about Winston Churchill prior to WWII. He was just "eager to commit troops to conflict on the other side of the world and was a blowhard". Now I wouldn't dare compare myself to Churchill but I would compare you to those that disparaged his foresight and/or encouraged the sellout of allies to Germany for a phoney "Peace for our time". Estonia is our ally as per NATO whether you like it or not and the only question is whether under a worst-case-scenerio we are willing to backstop our treaties with force.lukin2006 said:
Are you a drama queen? Just for the record I don't think for a minute that you'd join the fight, people like you that are so eager to commit our troops to conflicts on the other side of the world are blowhards...BS44325 said:
Oh. Is that your real question because it sounds like the classic "chickenhawk" dodge everyone on the AMT uses when questions of difficult foreign policy choices arise. Maybe all us citizens should say nothing and just let generals decide when to use the military, after all only they are qualified to speak on it. Hmmm...my guess is you wouldn't like that. Or let's reinstate the draft and force enlistment instead of sending individuals who have the passion and skills for that type of service....but my guess is you wouldn't like thay either. Anyways...not to dodge your question...in a time of war I will do what my country asks of me just like many Canadians did in previous global conflicts. I won't give you a hard time if you choose otherwise. Article 5 exists for a reason yet your attitude makes it meaningless. I'm sorry but to bring it back to the topic at hand, it will be the strength of that Article and not another live performance of Imagine that will bring peace in our time.lukin2006 said:
Well you didn't answer my question, are you going? You know, join the good fight? And I'll worry about article 5 when Estonia needso it invoked....but so far only the big bad us have needed it.BS44325 said:
Yes...individuals like you who would say "Estonia lol". Putin is relying on NATO saying "not our problem" and "lol". My guess is he'll be successful but at least you will still have your peace.lukin2006 said:
Individuals lik me? Article 5 has been invoked once in natos history, after 911. Estonia, lol, joined in 1999 when the west was expanding NATO with former Warsaw Pact members, lol...once again not our problem.BS44325 said:
Russia is positioning itself to enter Estonia. Do we know if they will? No but it is not paranoia and if anything it would be a dereliction of duty not to prepare for it. Estonia is a member of NATO and should an invasion occur we would have to invoke Article 5 and then we would be at war. The question is whether we would or whether it would become a Peace For Our Time moment just like when Czechoslovakia was served over to Hitler on a plate. Putin is betting that the west is made up of more individuals like you.lukin2006 said:
Then if you support war you, politicians and investors and upper management in weapons manufactures should be the first off of the landing craft...when that happens, let's talk, and if those were the rules of war, we'd have fewer wars. And enough with the paranoia about being invaded, holy shit...no one is invading us, no one was invading us during WW2 as well.BS44325 said:
Except the lesson of those wars is that evil when it exists must be confronted otherwise it spreads and eventually reaches one's shore. "Peace in our Time" was and still is an illusion.lukin2006 said:
Maybe after WW2 for a very short time. Lol. I'm under no illusion, the world is a dangerous place. But if Canada and the US can coexist without conflict with each other for over 200 years then I do think peace is possible...I just think these hotspots throughout the world has to be sorted out regionally without the west involvement. I don't mean to sound cold but I and many other Canadians had family members who served in both world wars so we could enjoy peace, freedom and our way of life peacefully...I no longer want Canadians coming back with PTSD, limbs missing, battle wounds and in body bags because our government actually thinks getting involved in these hotspots make a difference...I would like our military used for defence and peacekeeping only.Go Beavers said:
Your anger is understandable and your answer to my question about measuring peace is imbedded in there.lukin2006 said:Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
First off who anointed the US as the world police and decider of what good democracy stands for. I'm witnessing your fake pathetic democracy at work everyday...nothing to be proud of or no reason to promote your democracy throughout the world, it's not that great if these candidates are the best you can do out of 330 + million people. Isn't your military budget bigger than the next 22 countries or so combined? Why is that? It's not for defence, the nuclear weapons are your defence against attack. I would think after constant war in the Middle East and with the conclusion of one conflict another hotspot arises in the region and sometimes even worse than before someone would want try another approach, like getting the fuck out and quit using drones and machinery of war on innocent people...and leave the Middle East to their own devices, they'll either figure it out or they won't, their choice.Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
Also, would you say there was a time in the past where there was greater peace?
When article 5 is invoked, are you off to join the fight?
http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-missile-tests-western-border-iskander/28065301.html
LOLI have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
And do you include the treatment of women around the world? Children? What about the caste system? Violent crime? Gang warfare?Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
They haven't been as "political" because the person they endorsed has been in office for 8 years. If you want to see them as they were from 2000-2008, then vote for Trump!will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0 -
Me neither, and that is interesting. Seems like a really fucking stupid idea, lol, especially for the Japanese, who didn't normally tend to be so silly as that in war.my2hands said:
I honestly had no idea... interestingmcgruff10 said:
and balloons!Go Beavers said:Japan dropped fire bombs a couple times on the Oregon coast. Only ine started a fire that they put out quickly. The town had the Japanese pilot visit several times since, and he gave the town, Brookings, his samurai sword. He also planted a tree at the site if the bombing as a gesture of peace. His daughter buried some of his ashes there, too.
1945:: A Japanese balloon bomb kills six people in rural eastern Oregon. They are the only World War II U.S. combat casualties in the 48 states.
Made of rubberized silk or paper, each balloon was about 33 feet in diameter. Barometer-operated valves released hydrogen if the balloon gained too much altitude or dropped sandbags if it flew too low.
In all, the Japanese released an estimated 9,000 fire balloons. At least 342 reached the United States. Some drifted as far as Nebraska. Some were shot down.
Some caused minor damage when they landed, but no injuries. One hit a power line and temporarily blacked out the nuclear-weapons plant at Hanford, Washington.
But the only known casualties from the 9,000 balllons — and the only combat deaths from any cause on the U.S. mainland — were the five kids and their Sunday school teacher going to a picnic.
That is really sad about the 6 people though. Little kids no less. Talk about shitty luck.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Hahaha. I'm sure if anyone who is anyone, you know, like a national leader or a military leader, starts talking about actually going to war with Russia he will take it seriously. But so far it's just you talking about it on a message board.BS44325 said:
Ahhh right...drama queen. Yes. People said similar about Winston Churchill prior to WWII. He was just "eager to commit troops to conflict on the other side of the world and was a blowhard". Now I wouldn't dare compare myself to Churchill but I would compare you to those that disparaged his foresight and/or encouraged the sellout of allies to Germany for a phoney "Peace for our time". Estonia is our ally as per NATO whether you like it or not and the only question is whether under a worst-case-scenerio we are willing to backstop our treaties with force.lukin2006 said:
Are you a drama queen? Just for the record I don't think for a minute that you'd join the fight, people like you that are so eager to commit our troops to conflicts on the other side of the world are blowhards...BS44325 said:
Oh. Is that your real question because it sounds like the classic "chickenhawk" dodge everyone on the AMT uses when questions of difficult foreign policy choices arise. Maybe all us citizens should say nothing and just let generals decide when to use the military, after all only they are qualified to speak on it. Hmmm...my guess is you wouldn't like that. Or let's reinstate the draft and force enlistment instead of sending individuals who have the passion and skills for that type of service....but my guess is you wouldn't like thay either. Anyways...not to dodge your question...in a time of war I will do what my country asks of me just like many Canadians did in previous global conflicts. I won't give you a hard time if you choose otherwise. Article 5 exists for a reason yet your attitude makes it meaningless. I'm sorry but to bring it back to the topic at hand, it will be the strength of that Article and not another live performance of Imagine that will bring peace in our time.lukin2006 said:
Well you didn't answer my question, are you going? You know, join the good fight? And I'll worry about article 5 when Estonia needso it invoked....but so far only the big bad us have needed it.BS44325 said:
Yes...individuals like you who would say "Estonia lol". Putin is relying on NATO saying "not our problem" and "lol". My guess is he'll be successful but at least you will still have your peace.lukin2006 said:
Individuals lik me? Article 5 has been invoked once in natos history, after 911. Estonia, lol, joined in 1999 when the west was expanding NATO with former Warsaw Pact members, lol...once again not our problem.BS44325 said:
Russia is positioning itself to enter Estonia. Do we know if they will? No but it is not paranoia and if anything it would be a dereliction of duty not to prepare for it. Estonia is a member of NATO and should an invasion occur we would have to invoke Article 5 and then we would be at war. The question is whether we would or whether it would become a Peace For Our Time moment just like when Czechoslovakia was served over to Hitler on a plate. Putin is betting that the west is made up of more individuals like you.lukin2006 said:
Then if you support war you, politicians and investors and upper management in weapons manufactures should be the first off of the landing craft...when that happens, let's talk, and if those were the rules of war, we'd have fewer wars. And enough with the paranoia about being invaded, holy shit...no one is invading us, no one was invading us during WW2 as well.BS44325 said:
Except the lesson of those wars is that evil when it exists must be confronted otherwise it spreads and eventually reaches one's shore. "Peace in our Time" was and still is an illusion.lukin2006 said:
Maybe after WW2 for a very short time. Lol. I'm under no illusion, the world is a dangerous place. But if Canada and the US can coexist without conflict with each other for over 200 years then I do think peace is possible...I just think these hotspots throughout the world has to be sorted out regionally without the west involvement. I don't mean to sound cold but I and many other Canadians had family members who served in both world wars so we could enjoy peace, freedom and our way of life peacefully...I no longer want Canadians coming back with PTSD, limbs missing, battle wounds and in body bags because our government actually thinks getting involved in these hotspots make a difference...I would like our military used for defence and peacekeeping only.Go Beavers said:
Your anger is understandable and your answer to my question about measuring peace is imbedded in there.lukin2006 said:Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
First off who anointed the US as the world police and decider of what good democracy stands for. I'm witnessing your fake pathetic democracy at work everyday...nothing to be proud of or no reason to promote your democracy throughout the world, it's not that great if these candidates are the best you can do out of 330 + million people. Isn't your military budget bigger than the next 22 countries or so combined? Why is that? It's not for defence, the nuclear weapons are your defence against attack. I would think after constant war in the Middle East and with the conclusion of one conflict another hotspot arises in the region and sometimes even worse than before someone would want try another approach, like getting the fuck out and quit using drones and machinery of war on innocent people...and leave the Middle East to their own devices, they'll either figure it out or they won't, their choice.Go Beavers said:
Totally serious. I like to know how people perceive it. Do they look at number of global conflicts at the moment, number of casualties, number of bombs dropped, occurance of individual actions (e.g. Drone attacks). Do you include terrorist attacks?lukin2006 said:
Are you serious...Go Beavers said:
What do you use to measure global peace?lukin2006 said:
Well your current POTUS and Nobel peace winner is compensating for the lack of peace before and after his presidency...I assuming the last 8 years he lead the charge for peace, after all he is the Nobel peace prize winner...Free said:What I'm curious about is the pro-Peace stance Eddie stands by and still pushes at concerts. Hillary is so far from being pro-peace it's not funny. There's a reason why even she, herself calls herself a hawk.
I'm gathering that the band is just playing it safe and siding with her because they're in fear of Trump.
Also, would you say there was a time in the past where there was greater peace?
When article 5 is invoked, are you off to join the fight?
http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-missile-tests-western-border-iskander/28065301.html
LOLWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Right. It's just me on a message board.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/692601/NATO-military-chief-warns-Vladimir-Putin-invade-Poland-start-World-War-Three/amp?client=safari
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-vs-nato-putins-military-might-could-overrun-nato-forces-in-60-hours-defense-official-warns/news-story/abcacd7437387f2b8baf2d44820548f1
I guess we just pay attention to what we choose to pay attention to.
Hahaha and LOL0 -
BS44325 said:
Right. It's just me on a message board.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/692601/NATO-military-chief-warns-Vladimir-Putin-invade-Poland-start-World-War-Three/amp?client=safari
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-vs-nato-putins-military-might-could-overrun-nato-forces-in-60-hours-defense-official-warns/news-story/abcacd7437387f2b8baf2d44820548f1
I guess we just pay attention to what we choose to pay attention to.
Hahaha and LOL
Wow, if those are the kinds of sources you're using and if that is the way you interpret them, no wonder your views seem so kooky. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Oh...you have a problem with US Deputy assistant secretary of defence for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia Michael Carpenter, and NATO’s former Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, General Sir Richard Shirreff as sources?PJ_Soul said:BS44325 said:Right. It's just me on a message board.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/692601/NATO-military-chief-warns-Vladimir-Putin-invade-Poland-start-World-War-Three/amp?client=safari
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-vs-nato-putins-military-might-could-overrun-nato-forces-in-60-hours-defense-official-warns/news-story/abcacd7437387f2b8baf2d44820548f1
I guess we just pay attention to what we choose to pay attention to.
Hahaha and LOL Wow, if those are the kinds of sources you're using and if that is the way you interpret them, no wonder your views seem so kooky.
Yeah...kooky people indeed.0 -
The information might be good but the sources are very iffy, BS. The first thing I saw on one of these sites was a bunch of goofy t-shirts. That does not bode well for an information web site. Can you find something more substantial? I don't doubt the concern for war, just the sources of info.BS44325 said:
Oh...you have a problem with US Deputy assistant secretary of defence for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia Michael Carpenter, and NATO’s former Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, General Sir Richard Shirreff as sources?PJ_Soul said:BS44325 said:Right. It's just me on a message board.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/692601/NATO-military-chief-warns-Vladimir-Putin-invade-Poland-start-World-War-Three/amp?client=safari
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-vs-nato-putins-military-might-could-overrun-nato-forces-in-60-hours-defense-official-warns/news-story/abcacd7437387f2b8baf2d44820548f1
I guess we just pay attention to what we choose to pay attention to.
Hahaha and LOL Wow, if those are the kinds of sources you're using and if that is the way you interpret them, no wonder your views seem so kooky.
Yeah...kooky people indeed."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Uhh...hello Brian but no t-shirt ads when I click. I'm not sure if you are aware how online advertising works but it generally mirrors what you have been searching so you must be a "goofy tshirt guy". It's called "Online behavioural advertising". Those are both legit news sites quoting real people. The ads are on you. It's amazing the lengths people will go on here to avoid talking about things makes them uncomfortable.brianlux said:
The information might be good but the sources are very iffy, BS. The first thing I saw on one of these sites was a bunch of goofy t-shirts. That does not bode well for an information web site. Can you find something more substantial? I don't doubt the concern for war, just the sources of info.BS44325 said:
Oh...you have a problem with US Deputy assistant secretary of defence for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia Michael Carpenter, and NATO’s former Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, General Sir Richard Shirreff as sources?PJ_Soul said:BS44325 said:Right. It's just me on a message board.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/692601/NATO-military-chief-warns-Vladimir-Putin-invade-Poland-start-World-War-Three/amp?client=safari
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-vs-nato-putins-military-might-could-overrun-nato-forces-in-60-hours-defense-official-warns/news-story/abcacd7437387f2b8baf2d44820548f1
I guess we just pay attention to what we choose to pay attention to.
Hahaha and LOL Wow, if those are the kinds of sources you're using and if that is the way you interpret them, no wonder your views seem so kooky.
Yeah...kooky people indeed.
0 -
The only people who want war never end up going to war...
When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?[11]
— Harry PatchI have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
Harry Patch?0
-
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
Great words. Absolutely fucking great. Do you suppose Hillary or Trump would agree with Mr. Patch?lukin2006 said:The only people who want war never end up going to war...
When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?[11]
— Harry Patch"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I think we already know how Trumps feels about Harry Patch.brianlux said:
Great words. Absolutely fucking great. Do you suppose Hillary or Trump would agree with Mr. Patch?lukin2006 said:The only people who want war never end up going to war...
When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?[11]
— Harry Patch0
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