How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your...

brianlux

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation?

This is just an "I'm curious" thread and what's great about that is, for once, we all get to be right! And you, those of you who are not Americans can throw in your two cents from an outside perspective but remember you are probably hearing all this US politics nonsense from a differing perspective outside the states.

My take is, this years presidential election is doing much to push me away from the Republicrat/Democan party of one by none. I stayed registered Democrat to vote for Bernie (all for not) and am going back to Green which has long made more sense to me (you know, with my silly belief that we should focus on having a planet suitable for human-- and other large mammal- habitation). I'm convinced more than ever that the Dems and Reps are a unified facade of sorts. I'm convinced more than ever that Americans in general are becoming less informed, less educated, less aware and will continue to distance themselves from the world of politics, taking interest only what seems to fit their style and only getting involved when it comes time to wave flags, plaster bumper stickers, and rant on line or in the grocery store about they latest personality they think will represent them the best.

My only consolation out of all this is, as Leeze so well pointed out elsewhere, that out of all this mess a new creative boon will occur, just as it did in the US around the time of the war in Vietnam and as it did in England in the mid to late 70's when that place was piled high with trash and a decadence only the elite enjoyed. It will be fascinating to see all this creativity unfold!

Your take?

Go Beavers

It's not always linear, but with the youngsters supporting Sanders, and the typical trend for things to move left, my guess is the parties remain, but shift left. The Dems become more Berniesque, and the Repubs distance themselves from the kooky right.

brianlux

Go Beavers said:

It's not always linear, but with the youngsters supporting Sanders, and the typical trend for things to move left, my guess is the parties remain, but shift left. The Dems become more Berniesque, and the Repubs distance themselves from the kooky right.

Great answer GB but the question is, how have current political event affected your outlook, your affiliations?

Edit: I reworded the thread to make it more clear, thanks!

hedonist

My thought is that politics in this time, right now, has become more of a clusterfuck than ever. Seems more about taking others down instead of highlighting their own strengths and ideas; taking the high road is almost non-existent.

Yup, a big fat juicy clusterfuck.

I'm registered Independent and am probably somewhat right of center. I'm comfortable with my stances but tired of the whole party affiliation thing. This country is a melting pot, why not have the parties do the same? One huge group of people who maybe shouldn't have to identify themselves as A, B, C, etc.

By the way, I've never waved a flag but I've certainly saluted it. Some things, some symbols, mean more to some than to others. And that's OK.

Godfather.

hedonist said:

My thought is that politics in this time, right now, has become more of a clusterfuck than ever. Seems more about taking others down instead of highlighting their own strengths and ideas; taking the high road is almost non-existent.

Yup, a big fat juicy clusterfuck.

I'm registered Independent and am probably somewhat right of center. I'm comfortable with my stances but tired of the whole party affiliation thing. This country is a melting pot, why not have the parties do the same? One huge group of people who maybe shouldn't have to identify themselves as A, B, C, etc.

By the way, I've never waved a flag but I've certainly saluted it. Some things, some symbols, mean more to some than to others. And that's OK.

awesome post my friend ! believe it or not I feel the same way......I have to admit tho I do enjoy the back and forth on here, hehhehhe.

Godfather.

Go Beavers

Ah, got it. My own outlook contains my earlier answer, in that there's always a gradual shift leftward that I agree with, so I don't stress. I see the current events as basically bringing to the surface what's been there for a long time. Trump has given a voice and public validation to a certain part of the population, about 15%, that's been there stewing for awhile. It's what the Republicans get when their platform has been essentially only "no" and opposition, rather than an actual stance on issue. When you say no for eight years and no one corrals the kids, the bully rises to the top. I don't see a rising voice that Trump voters encapsulate. They essentially are the fearful and ignorant that we've always had.

What's interesting is that I had been registered Dem but went independent in '96, when I viewed Clinton as selling out to Republicans and backing off their health insurance agenda. I registered back to Dem in order to vote for Bernie. I don't have any fierce loyalty to the Dem party, I just always see their candidates as the better way to go and always vote D.

hedonist

Thank you, GF. Believe it or not, I believe you on both points

brianlux

^^^Thanks GB.

Go Beavers

hedonist said:

My thought is that politics in this time, right now, has become more of a clusterfuck than ever. Seems more about taking others down instead of highlighting their own strengths and ideas; taking the high road is almost non-existent.

Yup, a big fat juicy clusterfuck.

I'm registered Independent and am probably somewhat right of center. I'm comfortable with my stances but tired of the whole party affiliation thing. This country is a melting pot, why not have the parties do the same? One huge group of people who maybe shouldn't have to identify themselves as A, B, C, etc.

By the way, I've never waved a flag but I've certainly saluted it. Some things, some symbols, mean more to some than to others. And that's OK.

I disagree about the more than ever part. Taking the high road hasn't ever worked, and that's on the citizens, not the politicians. And basically, Trump is Barry Goldwater off his medications.

Godfather.

Go Beavers said:

hedonist said:

My thought is that politics in this time, right now, has become more of a clusterfuck than ever. Seems more about taking others down instead of highlighting their own strengths and ideas; taking the high road is almost non-existent.

Yup, a big fat juicy clusterfuck.

I'm registered Independent and am probably somewhat right of center. I'm comfortable with my stances but tired of the whole party affiliation thing. This country is a melting pot, why not have the parties do the same? One huge group of people who maybe shouldn't have to identify themselves as A, B, C, etc.

By the way, I've never waved a flag but I've certainly saluted it. Some things, some symbols, mean more to some than to others. And that's OK.

I disagree about the more than ever part. Taking the high road hasn't ever worked, and that's on the citizens, not the politicians. And basically, Trump is Barry Goldwater off his medications.

I'm only going to post this once....they"re both batshit fucking crazy but at this point in the game Hillary worries me more not that Trump doesn't and if I thought one of the other candidates had a chance I'd vote for them but as it stands any vote to them is a vote for Hillary and I can't stand her and to borrow a phrase used towards me "I hate everything she stands for" LOL ! this election has been a childish friggin game from both parties from the start.......and I'm bullheaded LOL !

Godfather.

brianlux

Whoa! Veering off topic already like a Chevy Corvair doing hairpin turn with a busted rear axle!

Free

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation

I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.

brianlux

Free said:

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation

I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.

Now I know all of you think Free and I are in cahoots or something but how can I not say how much I agree with this! And what a disappointment. We used to have two distinct parties and at times, even some brief forays into third party recognition. The only good out of this, from my perspective, is further interest in other parties.

hedonist

Go Beavers said:

hedonist said:

My thought is that politics in this time, right now, has become more of a clusterfuck than ever. Seems more about taking others down instead of highlighting their own strengths and ideas; taking the high road is almost non-existent.

Yup, a big fat juicy clusterfuck.

I'm registered Independent and am probably somewhat right of center. I'm comfortable with my stances but tired of the whole party affiliation thing. This country is a melting pot, why not have the parties do the same? One huge group of people who maybe shouldn't have to identify themselves as A, B, C, etc.

By the way, I've never waved a flag but I've certainly saluted it. Some things, some symbols, mean more to some than to others. And that's OK.

I disagree about the more than ever part. Taking the high road hasn't ever worked, and that's on the citizens, not the politicians. And basically, Trump is Barry Goldwater off his medications.

Maybe because we're exposed to more of the same old shit via new technology that it seems more than ever...I don't know. But I do know that I'm sick of this political climate, how it's been of late.

Taking the high road can work. Why would that be only the citizens? Easy way out to me.

Shouldn't it be demanded of those who are being elected to LEAD this country? Or at least affect its morale?

Integrity applies to all - even moreso when no one is around to know if you've acted unethically - even moreso when in a position of power and effect.

Then again, maybe Puscifer is right...all smoke and mirrors.

Go Beavers

Integrity can be demanded, but negative mudslinging can give someone a 5-6 point swing. If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it. People can demand integrity by rewarding it.

JWPearl

Im sick of hearing about the election on the news, why cant the election just go on for like a month, vote and be done with it ? instead we have to know whos sick, who made a sexist remark, oh and now they are questionable failures, sick of seeing the news captions....
im so glad i dont vote and only support Gods kingdom of ruler ship which will happen as Jesus said my kingdom is no part of this world and if it were he would not have been delivered up (John 18;36) But eventually his kingdom with be with the new world and will crush all other kingdoms and it will be a war with the only winner being God and Jesus because the power is from them that exists anywhere in the universe.. (Daniel 2;44,45) (2 Corinthians 4;7)Roman 1;18-(20)-23

unsung

It convinced me to no longer vote.

The system is beyond repair, only a complete and total destruction will bring about change. Thankfully these two give change the best opportunity for that to happen.

Godfather.

brianlux said:

Whoa! Veering off topic already like a Chevy Corvair doing hairpin turn with a busted rear axle!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHH !

Godfather.

JWPearl said:

Im sick of hearing about the election on the news, why cant the election just go on for like a month, vote and be done with it ? instead we have to know whos sick, who made a sexist remark, oh and now they are questionable failures, sick of seeing the news captions....
im so glad i dont vote and only support Gods kingdom of ruler ship which will happen as Jesus said my kingdom is no part of this world and if it were he would not have been delivered up (John 18;36) But eventually his kingdom with be with the new world and will crush all other kingdoms and it will be a war with the only winner being God and Jesus because the power is from them that exists anywhere in the universe.. (Daniel 2;44,45) (2 Corinthians 4;7)Roman 1;18-(20)-23

great post !

Godfather.

rgambs

Free said:

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation

I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.

All of that is true if dirt and corruption are the only thing you care about, but if you still care about a range of issues the parties are not the same at all. Trump is out there parading his support for trickle down economics, they are trying to defund the biggest provider of free health care for women, they are advocating for draconian laws that would make us a Christian caliphate, they consider global warming a Chinese hoax, and their SCOTUS picks would uphold Citizens United for eternity....to name of few of the huge differences.

To call the parties the same is just foolish, unless you are speaking only in terms of dirty politics and protecting the big banks.

Free

rgambs said:

Free said:

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation

I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.

All of that is true if dirt and corruption are the only thing you care about, but if you still care about a range of issues the parties are not the same at all. Trump is out there parading his support for trickle down economics, they are trying to defund the biggest provider of free health care for women, they are advocating for draconian laws that would make us a Christian caliphate, they consider global warming a Chinese hoax, and their SCOTUS picks would uphold Citizens United for eternity....to name of few of the huge differences.

To call the parties the same is just foolish, unless you are speaking only in terms of dirty politics and protecting the big banks.




Ha! They are totally In cahoots with each other with the media to get what they want: power over the people. This is just one example:

Holt claimed that the event was “sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. The commission drafted tonight’s format, and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns.”

While the CPD certainly controls much of the event, it’s not a “nonpartisan” organization at all. It’s about as far from nonpartisan as you can get. It’s totally bipartisan. It’s a creation of the Democratic and Republican parties designed to solidify their dominance over the public.

Its origins are in an agreement “Memorandum of Agreement on Presidential Candidate Joint Appearances” from 1985 signed by Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr., then Chairman of the Republican National Committee, and Paul G. Kirk Jr., then Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. The two would go on to head the CPD.

But that original agreement didn’t even have the word “debates” in it. This Commission is the mechanism by which the Democratic and Republican parties came together to push aside the League of Women Voters, which had organized presidential debates before 1988. It was to make sure that the campaigns, not some independent entity, would decide on moderators, on formats — and to critically exclude other participants unless both sides agreed. They simply wanted to ensure “televised joint appearances” — which became emblematic of a pretense of democratic discourse.

Holt’s fabrication — he can’t possibly be ignorant of this — is really a root problem of our politics. All the lies and spin from Clinton and Trump largely manifest themselves because each side excuses them because “the other” is worse. That is, the very “bipartisan” structure of our elections is in large part responsible for the dynamics we’re seeing.

http://disinfo.com/2016/09/the-biggest-lie-was-from-lester-holt-its-killing-our-democracy-heres-how-to-solve-it/

rgambs

Free said:

rgambs said:

Free said:

How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation

I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.

All of that is true if dirt and corruption are the only thing you care about, but if you still care about a range of issues the parties are not the same at all. Trump is out there parading his support for trickle down economics, they are trying to defund the biggest provider of free health care for women, they are advocating for draconian laws that would make us a Christian caliphate, they consider global warming a Chinese hoax, and their SCOTUS picks would uphold Citizens United for eternity....to name of few of the huge differences.

To call the parties the same is just foolish, unless you are speaking only in terms of dirty politics and protecting the big banks.

Ha! They are totally In cahoots with each other with the media to get what they want: power over the people. This is just one example:

Holt claimed that the event was “sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. The commission drafted tonight’s format, and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns.”

While the CPD certainly controls much of the event, it’s not a “nonpartisan” organization at all. It’s about as far from nonpartisan as you can get. It’s totally bipartisan. It’s a creation of the Democratic and Republican parties designed to solidify their dominance over the public.

Its origins are in an agreement “Memorandum of Agreement on Presidential Candidate Joint Appearances” from 1985 signed by Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr., then Chairman of the Republican National Committee, and Paul G. Kirk Jr., then Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. The two would go on to head the CPD.

But that original agreement didn’t even have the word “debates” in it. This Commission is the mechanism by which the Democratic and Republican parties came together to push aside the League of Women Voters, which had organized presidential debates before 1988. It was to make sure that the campaigns, not some independent entity, would decide on moderators, on formats — and to critically exclude other participants unless both sides agreed. They simply wanted to ensure “televised joint appearances” — which became emblematic of a pretense of democratic discourse.

Holt’s fabrication — he can’t possibly be ignorant of this — is really a root problem of our politics. All the lies and spin from Clinton and Trump largely manifest themselves because each side excuses them because “the other” is worse. That is, the very “bipartisan” structure of our elections is in large part responsible for the dynamics we’re seeing.

http://disinfo.com/2016/09/the-biggest-lie-was-from-lester-holt-its-killing-our-democracy-heres-how-to-solve-it/



Ok, cool.
What does that have to do with SCOTUS appointees, Planned Parenthood, global warming, trickle down economics, "religious freedom" laws, gun control, the Iran Deal, etc etc.

You proved my point, the people who consider the parties to be the same are near to obsessed with notions of corruption and have little care for the range of issues that separate the parties.

Free

Oh, and you can deny it's happening all you want. The fact is the League of Women Voters was pushed aside so a bipartisan group could control the debates and the moderators who work them, ensuring that it's well-controlled, keeping third parties out, and keeping the system in check. The two-party system.

rgambs

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

rgambs

Free said:

Oh, and you can deny it's happening all you want. The fact is the League of Women Voters was pushed aside so a bipartisan group could control the debates and the moderators who work them, ensuring that it's well-controlled, keeping third parties out, and keeping the system in check. The two-party system.

I am not denying it at all. I accept that.

Now, again, what does that have do with SCOTUS appointees, Planned Parenthood, global warming, trickle down economics, "religious freedom" laws, gun control, the Iran Deal, etc etc.????

Free

rgambs said:

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.

rgambs

Free said:

rgambs said:

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.

You sound write that on a sandwich board and roam around the city spreading that gospel!

rgambs

You still didn't answer my question about the issues...

unsung

Free said:

rgambs said:

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.

Looks like an answer to me.

rgambs

unsung said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.

Looks like an answer to me.

Looks like paranoid delusion to me.

Free

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Free said:

rgambs said:

I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
We have choices, and they matter.

Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.

Looks like an answer to me.

Looks like paranoid delusion to me.

Ok, keep believing whatever you want. We all have that choice.