A thread about Bill Maher: The Good, The Bad, and The UGLY!

Gern Blansten · October 6

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Good news, mortgage interest is still tax deductible. The last great tax deduction. And add 10% per year for all of the things you will need to fix. Sorry if I missed the tax benefit and the extra costs of being a homeowner in those calculations. For us it was simple, paying rent is money out the window. 20 years later, we have something to show for it. I do not need a math equation to add that up.

Hey, sorry if you cannot afford to live in Austin, NYC, Marin county, Atlanta, or Charlotte. Supply and demand.

It's deductible if you itemize....and only interest on up to $750K in mortgage debt is deductible

Well if you have a mortgage and do not itemize, that's on you and your accountant. If your mortgage is over 750K, then I would guess you are looking for other tax relief. Maybe depreciation on your boat.

Lots of people have mortgages that don't itemize because the standard deduction is higher...why take less deduction just because you have a mortgage?

For us the standard deduction has never come close to itemizing. Get a good accountant. You will pay less every time.

LOL...I prepare about 1000 tax returns a year. Lots of people have mortgages that take the standard deduction because it is MORE than itemizing. It doesn't take a good accountant to see that.

More people will itemize for tax year 2025 because they lifted the $10K limit on SALT.

I actually know what SALT means. Itemizing has always been better for us since we had kids. Before then we took the standard deduction and mailed it in.

Having kids has nothing to do with itemizing. You itemize when your deductions (mortgage interest, SALT, contributions, etc. ) exceed the standard deduction.

But it does. Child care credit, unreimbursed medical etc. Yes, there are limits but we claim it all.

no man....child care credit is a credit, has nothing to do with itemizing

out of pocket medical probably isn't deductible unless you have a massive amount of it

We have always saved by itemizing. Big time. It is a pain but we save big dollars.

Yeah you should always itemize if it makes sense for sure.

Get_Right · October 6

I am not a tax professional nor do I pretend to be. Do not listen to me. With the right guidance, most of what you spend can be a tax offset. Why do you think the top 1% pays no taxes?

Lerxst1992 · October 6

Get_Right said:

I am not a tax professional nor do I pretend to be. Do not listen to me. With the right guidance, most of what you spend can be a tax offset. Why do you think the top 1% pays no taxes?

I pay a lot in tax

Get_Right · October 6

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

I am not a tax professional nor do I pretend to be. Do not listen to me. With the right guidance, most of what you spend can be a tax offset. Why do you think the top 1% pays no taxes?

I pay a lot in tax

Wives do not count.

Gern Blansten · October 7

Get_Right said:

I am not a tax professional nor do I pretend to be. Do not listen to me. With the right guidance, most of what you spend can be a tax offset. Why do you think the top 1% pays no taxes?

Yeah I'm not sure where you are getting that. Most of what you spend is most certainly not a tax deduction.

If you are going to someone that tells you otherwise you need to find someone else.

Lerxst1992 · October 7

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

Halifax2TheMax · October 7

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

Lerxst1992 · October 7

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

Halifax2TheMax · October 7

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.

Wage Growth Trends

Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.

Inequality in Wage Growth:

The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.

Minimum Wage:

The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.

Inflation's Impact

Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.

Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities

Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

static111 · October 8

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

30k 1985 = 117,952 2025 explains a lot. No wonder I feel like my dead beat parents had it easy.

brianlux · October 8

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

30k 1985 = 117,952 2025 explains a lot. No wonder I feel like my dead beat parents had it easy.

Just for the heck of it:

30k 1985 to 117,952 2025 is almost quadrupled.

I 'm compelled to point out that inflation does not run equal across the board. I was just looking at my first edition Steinbeck cannery row (VG+ in strong VG dust jacket) with the price I paid for it still on the ffep: $15.00 Same book today, same time span? Starting around $100 (about 6.67 times the price I paid).

Lerxst1992 · October 8

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

30k 1985 = 117,952 2025 explains a lot. No wonder I feel like my dead beat parents had it easy.

Your own math had the 1985 house cost $395k with interest and the 2025 house cost $906k with interest, but you didn’t address the fact that these mortgages are forty years apart, which brings the total costs very comparable from their article.

I keep pointing this out and you keep ignoring. Are you sure your humor entitles you to claim that you have the winning argument here?

josevolution · October 8

Maybe just start a housing market thread? Not sure what housing costs have to do with Maher 🤷‍♂️

cincybearcat · October 8

josevolution said:

Maybe just start a housing market thread? Not sure what housing costs have to do with Maher 🤷‍♂️

Is his house on the market?

Lerxst1992 · October 8

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

this is just more hiding behind obfuscation and humor. We can get any specific wage inflation facts we want. I posted data below about how wages for skilled blue collar labor and professional services has done extremely well the last number of years.

your argument continues to ignore the fact that interest is the most significant component in analyzing housing costs, no matter how bad folks unfortunately may be doing in their careers. My last post replying to static again points out with their own math, with interest, the housing costs are comparable.

And further, on that very expensive $420k house, total cost at today’s interest rates is $1.2m while at rates from 40 years ago that same house costs $2.2m- that is how significant interests rates are and how baffling around with any aggregate wage stat does not address the absolute facts that interest expense is the primary drivers when comparing housing costs.

There’s also a big point about wage inflation, but we can’t even get past the interest rate reality.

…

” Recent wage growth outpaces inflation

More recent data, particularly since 2019, suggests a significant shift. Due to a labor shortage and high demand, wage growth in skilled trades has started to outpace inflation.

Stronger wage growth for Gen Z: Between 2019 and 2024, the average hourly wage for 18- to 25-year-old workers in the trades exceeded inflation by 16%. This demographic has particularly benefited from the increased demand for skilled labor.
Construction wages up: Data from August 2025 shows that median pay for new construction hires increased 4.4% year-over-year, which was nearly on par with the wage growth for new hires in professional services.”

josevolution · October 8

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

Maybe just start a housing market thread? Not sure what housing costs have to do with Maher 🤷‍♂️

Is his house on the market?

No but Perry Farrel’s house is 😂

Lerxst1992 · October 8

josevolution said:

cincybearcat said:

josevolution said:

Maybe just start a housing market thread? Not sure what housing costs have to do with Maher 🤷‍♂️

Is his house on the market?

No but Perry Farrel’s house is 😂

Very sorry to ruin the deluge of orangke clown fvckface posts and general conservative hate, but there was an article posted here and this is where the main debate evolved.

And eleven million posts about Epstein. Please accept my apologies for ruining that experience by attempting to have a centrist and balanced debate.

no one ever complains about the far left posts. Wonder why.

and you’re both upset about taking the focus on Maher? If you don’t get why discussing generational costs and how the generations present that in the media, how that relates to Bill Maher, I’m not sure we are all understanding his politics

Halifax2TheMax · October 8

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

this is just more hiding behind obfuscation and humor. We can get any specific wage inflation facts we want. I posted data below about how wages for skilled blue collar labor and professional services has done extremely well the last number of years.

your argument continues to ignore the fact that interest is the most significant component in analyzing housing costs, no matter how bad folks unfortunately may be doing in their careers. My last post replying to static again points out with their own math, with interest, the housing costs are comparable.

And further, on that very expensive $420k house, total cost at today’s interest rates is $1.2m while at rates from 40 years ago that same house costs $2.2m- that is how significant interests rates are and how baffling around with any aggregate wage stat does not address the absolute facts that interest expense is the primary drivers when comparing housing costs.
There’s also a big point about wage inflation, but we can’t even get past the interest rate reality.

…

” Recent wage growth outpaces inflation
More recent data, particularly since 2019, suggests a significant shift. Due to a labor shortage and high demand, wage growth in skilled trades has started to outpace inflation.
Stronger wage growth for Gen Z: Between 2019 and 2024, the average hourly wage for 18- to 25-year-old workers in the trades exceeded inflation by 16%. This demographic has particularly benefited from the increased demand for skilled labor.
Construction wages up: Data from August 2025 shows that median pay for new construction hires increased 4.4% year-over-year, which was nearly on par with the wage growth for new hires in professional services.”

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Now AI supply and demand and the role of private equity buying housing stock, both apartments and single family homes. You know, that private equity that owned a percentage of both in 1985?

Can your financial theory account for the 151% gap between median family income and median house cost?

Your math is fuzzy and your argument is bunk.

Gern Blansten · October 8

Love Bill Maher...he and I share a similar opinion of the orange fuckface

static111 · October 8

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

I guess we post only when there’s no employer to screw over business hours perhaps . AI knows without anyone telling it there are 12 mos in a year. And again, ai can do it quicker than any of your self written posts, if youre worried about missing out on Sunday. Monday will be here soon enough, no worries.

The numbers stand on their own. They are calculated facts. Stop obfuscating.

And cant resist the constant mocking ?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

Got a stock tip or two? My millennial neighbor kids that still live at home need some financial advice. Or do they just AI?

Your math is fuzzy. I used a Zillow mortgage calculator to crunch the numbers from Hugh’s example and there was no hundred of thousands savings or whatever it is you’re claiming. Fuzzy math.

GO JAYS!

Go ahead and plug this into any ai app…

” What are the total mortgage payments for a 40 year loan on a $420,000, at both 6.5 and 12%”

they will do the calculations slightly different but in every case, the lower interest rates of today v 40 years ago lead the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reduced cost over the life of the mortgage. We could try present value next, once we establish a common frame of reference.

and if it’s really about some faux disbelief of ai, on calculator dot net the payments for 6.5 and 12% respectively

$4320 vs $2655

Over a 40 year mortgage is that not $800,000? That’s per calculator dot net.

and the math gets far worse for Mamdani/gen z supporters, because if using a 401k to build wealth and buy a home thru a loan after ten years, there are also tax and employer match implications that impact the math in a huge manner for the smart investor.

You are ignoring that 420k in 85 gets a mansion but only gets a starter home or a fixer upper depending on locale in today’s market. Obviously the higher interest on 420k 40 years ago will result in paying more on a 30 year fixed. Unfortunately what 420 k bought 40 years ago vs today is not even close. I would rather buy the same house in 1985 80k at 12% than today for 420 k at 6%.

Ai

With a $80,000 home loan, a 12% fixed interest rate, and a 30-year term, your total payments would be
$395,093.45, which includes $315,093.45 in interest. The amount is calculated based on the principal and interest only and does not include property taxes, insurance, and other fees.

The actual cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage is
$906,519.60.
Step 1: Calculate the monthly mortgage payment
First, you need to calculate the monthly payment using the mortgage formula:
M=Pi(1+i)N(1+i)N−1
Where:
M
= monthly payment
P
= principal loan amount = $420,000
i
= monthly interest rate =
6%/12=0.5%=0.005
N
= total number of payments =
30years×12months/year=360

Plugging in the values:
M=4200000.005(1+0.005)360(1+0.005)360−1
Solving this equation gives a monthly payment of approximately $2,518.11.
Step 2: Calculate the total cost
To find the total cost of the home, multiply the monthly payment by the total number of payments.
Total Cost=Monthly Payment×Total Number of Payments
Total Cost=2518.11×360
Total Cost=906519.60
Answer:
The total cost of a $420,000 home with a 6% interest rate over 30 years is approximately $906,519.60.

That’s more than I have spent on Starbucks and subscriptions in my life. A million for a starter home. Boy the millennials and younger have it so good.

Here you go Hal, Statics hard work. I am agreeing with their calculation, total mortgage payments $906k for the 2025 house and $395k for the 1985 mortgage.

Since these two purchases originate 40 years apart, we can agree there is a time value to this? (Its not fuzzy, its a concept in finance). A dollar in your hand today is worth much less than the dollar in 1985?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

If we assume that wages/income kept pace with the increase in the cost of housing, which it didn't do and which the 25% increase in housing costs between 2022-2025 and the higher median age of first time home buyers illustrates. Facts that you ignore.

Geez, if not for AI, I may never get out of mom's basement and ever buy a house. Your exercise in financial concepts don't fully account for factors in play nor do they mean that housing costs in 1985 are the same, relative, as in 2025, and therefore, should be affordable for millennials, if only they would forgo their daily Starbucks, a few happy meals and some streaming/subscription services.

Where's your YouTube channel with all this sage AI advice?

The average inflation the last 40 years is 3.25%. You want to take a guess how much more expensive is the 1985 house? It's a simple calculation.

Yes low income earners have gotten screwed in the United States. But professional workers and skilled workers such as those in the trades have not. And based on hughs article and Statics calculation the 1985 house will require mortgage payments significantly greater than the house purchased in 2025, when adjusted for the 40 year time frame

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747.

The below are factors that you have chosen to ignore in your financial theory exercise. The affordability of a house today versus 1985 is not the same, it is not apples to apples. Hugh's own graphic shows a disparity between the rise in wages versus the rise in housing costs of 252% increase in median household income and the median cost of a house of 403%, a gap of 151%. That 151% gap can be made up by forgoing Starbucks, eh?

With your financial astuteness, you must be in the billionaire class now as well, eh?

AI tells me this:

The US housing inflation rate from 1980 to 2025, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and calculated by www.in2013dollars.com, shows that housing prices increased by approximately 325% over that period, with an average annual inflation rate of about 3.27%. This indicates that housing costs rose significantly faster than overall inflation during these 45 years.

AI also tells me this:

From 1980 to the present (2025), U.S. nominal wages increased significantly, but real (inflation-adjusted) wages have grown at a slower and more unequal rate, with top earners experiencing more than double the growth of other income groups since 1979. For example, the federal minimum wage rose from $3.10 in 1980 to $7.25 in 2009 and has not changed since, while inflation eroded purchasing power, with $30,000 in 1980 being equivalent to roughly $117,952 in today's dollars.
Wage Growth Trends
Nominal vs. Real Wages:
While nominal wages (the actual dollar amounts) have increased over time, real wages, which account for inflation, show a different story.
Inequality in Wage Growth:
The growth in real wages has not been evenly distributed. Since 1979, top income earners have seen their real wages grow at more than twice the rate of other income groups, contributing to rising income inequality.
Minimum Wage:
The federal minimum wage increased to $3.35 in 1981 from $3.10 in 1980, but it has remained stagnant since 2009.
Inflation's Impact
Inflation Rates:
The U.S. experienced a very high inflation rate of 13.5% in 1980. While the inflation rate became more stable for several decades, it rose significantly during the pandemic years of 2021-2022 before declining again.
Loss of Purchasing Power:
Inflation has decreased the purchasing power of the dollar. For instance, $30,000 in 1980 had the same buying power as approximately $117,952 in 2025, meaning that a larger nominal amount is needed to purchase the same goods and services.
Key Factors Contributing to Wage Disparities
Tax Policy:
Changes in tax policies have contributed to the widening gap in income and wealth.
Technological Change:
Technological advancements have played a role in the disparity of wage growth among different income groups.
Bargaining Power:
A decrease in the bargaining power of workers has also led to widening wage disparities.

this is just more hiding behind obfuscation and humor. We can get any specific wage inflation facts we want. I posted data below about how wages for skilled blue collar labor and professional services has done extremely well the last number of years.

your argument continues to ignore the fact that interest is the most significant component in analyzing housing costs, no matter how bad folks unfortunately may be doing in their careers. My last post replying to static again points out with their own math, with interest, the housing costs are comparable.

And further, on that very expensive $420k house, total cost at today’s interest rates is $1.2m while at rates from 40 years ago that same house costs $2.2m- that is how significant interests rates are and how baffling around with any aggregate wage stat does not address the absolute facts that interest expense is the primary drivers when comparing housing costs.
There’s also a big point about wage inflation, but we can’t even get past the interest rate reality.

…

” Recent wage growth outpaces inflation
More recent data, particularly since 2019, suggests a significant shift. Due to a labor shortage and high demand, wage growth in skilled trades has started to outpace inflation.
Stronger wage growth for Gen Z: Between 2019 and 2024, the average hourly wage for 18- to 25-year-old workers in the trades exceeded inflation by 16%. This demographic has particularly benefited from the increased demand for skilled labor.
Construction wages up: Data from August 2025 shows that median pay for new construction hires increased 4.4% year-over-year, which was nearly on par with the wage growth for new hires in professional services.”

the point i have been trying to make the whole time that you seem to disagree with is that it is harder to get in the door in 2025 with 2025 dollars than it was in 1985 with 1985 dollars. Rent used to be cheaper than owning. Real dollar value is down. Wages have been outpaced by housing costs. So getting a starter home is harder today than it has ever been. Interest rates have nothing to do with the fact that it is harder to get into a house and get a mortgage than it has ever been.

A thread about Bill Maher: The Good, The Bad, and The UGLY!

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