Become a junkie and OD, lifr saving kits are available free, develope an allergy that might someday require the use of a epipen victim of greed, price gauging and big pharma, sounds par for the course...
That's a gov't issue. Someone is paying for the narcan
I know someone's paying for it, just saying that's typical of today.
Maybe, but I think you're forgetting a pretty important distinction that affects how things get funded: the fentanyl thing is an acute public health crisis.
Heroin is an epidemic. Fetanyl is the next major issue
Become a junkie and OD, lifr saving kits are available free, develope an allergy that might someday require the use of a epipen victim of greed, price gauging and big pharma, sounds par for the course...
That's a gov't issue. Someone is paying for the narcan
I know someone's paying for it, just saying that's typical of today.
Maybe, but I think you're forgetting a pretty important distinction that affects how things get funded: the fentanyl thing is an acute public health crisis.
Heroin is an epidemic. Fetanyl is the next major issue
Not really. Only 10% of heroin users are addicts. The other 90% are just casual, recreational users. Heroin is actually the second most popular recreational drug next to pot (crazy but true). It`s the fentanyl specifically that suddenly has everyone dropping like flies, not heroin. Heroin just happens to be what fentanyl is sometimes put into. But don`t forget, heroin is far from the only drug that has fentanyl in it. So many different drugs are tainted with it. Even weed is being found with it now. That doesn`t make weed an epidemic. It's the fentanyl. I mean, if you want to call drug use an epidemic, okay, but there is no reason to put it in front of the very acute health crisis of fentanyl, which is killing people at FAR higher rates than heroin does.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Become a junkie and OD, lifr saving kits are available free, develope an allergy that might someday require the use of a epipen victim of greed, price gauging and big pharma, sounds par for the course...
That's a gov't issue. Someone is paying for the narcan
I know someone's paying for it, just saying that's typical of today.
Maybe, but I think you're forgetting a pretty important distinction that affects how things get funded: the fentanyl thing is an acute public health crisis. It's being handled more like an epidemic, really. The issue of Epipens, while also important, really isn't even in the same ballpark.
I support legalization of drugs for this reason. but it's still typical of society, become a junkie, use potent street drugs, od...no problem here's your antidote and the cycle continues...and legit hardworking people have to have to jump through hoops to get legit meds.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Become a junkie and OD, lifr saving kits are available free, develope an allergy that might someday require the use of a epipen victim of greed, price gauging and big pharma, sounds par for the course...
That's a gov't issue. Someone is paying for the narcan
I know someone's paying for it, just saying that's typical of today.
Maybe, but I think you're forgetting a pretty important distinction that affects how things get funded: the fentanyl thing is an acute public health crisis.
Heroin is an epidemic. Fetanyl is the next major issue
Not really. Only 10% of heroin users are addicts. The other 90% are just casual, recreational users. Heroin is actually the second most popular recreational drug next to pot (crazy but true). It`s the fentanyl specifically that suddenly has everyone dropping like flies, not heroin. Heroin just happens to be what fentanyl is sometimes put into. But don`t forget, heroin is far from the only drug that has fentanyl in it. So many different drugs are tainted with it. Even weed is being found with it now. That doesn`t make weed an epidemic. It's the fentanyl. I mean, if you want to call drug use an epidemic, okay, but there is no reason to put it in front of the very acute health crisis of fentanyl, which is killing people at FAR higher rates than heroin does.
Not sure you can really say that. Fetanyl is fairly new to the market compared to a massive 15 year rise in heroin. Fetanyl is certainly more lethal, but there isn't much data on the heroin vs. Fetanyl deaths.
I'd say anything that kills 10k Americans a year is an epidemic.
It's also semantics. Walking down the streets of philly you can see the difference in heroin use from 10 years ago.
I think it is beyond clear that the fentanyl crisis is far above and beyond heroin deaths right now. There are suddenly nights where there are 10 fentanyl ODs called in within 20 minutes in one little suburb, and none of them were addicts, let alone all using heroin. All just teens partying. That is the kind of thing happening right now. Totally separate issue from heroin. BC has declared a public health emergency because so many ODs and deaths are happening. To recreational users (i.e. the other 90%). Put it this way: drug-related deaths have increased by 75% over the same amount of time last year because of fentanyl. I'd say that is pretty damn significant, and it's own problem.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Where did I say it's not an issue. But to dismiss heroin as a recreational drug is idiotic
Really? It's idiotic to "dismiss" heroin (which I didn't do) as a recreational drug, when 90% of those who use it do so recreationally? So basically you're saying it's idiotic to state a fact.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Where did I say it's not an issue. But to dismiss heroin as a recreational drug is idiotic
Really? It's idiotic to "dismiss" heroin (which I didn't do) as a recreational drug, when 90% of those who use it do so recreationally? So basically you're saying it's idiotic to state a fact.
Something that kills 10k people a year and has prisons bursting at the seems is not recreational. And the only reason people are dying of Fetanyl is because they are hooked on dope
Where did I say it's not an issue. But to dismiss heroin as a recreational drug is idiotic
Really? It's idiotic to "dismiss" heroin (which I didn't do) as a recreational drug, when 90% of those who use it do so recreationally? So basically you're saying it's idiotic to state a fact.
Something that kills 10k people a year and has prisons bursting at the seems is not recreational. And the only reason people are dying of Fetanyl is because they are hooked on dope
How many junkies do you know?
Blow is recreation, heroin is not
Alcohol kills WAY more people than that - so I assume you are a tee-totaller, yes? Also, prosons are also bursting at the seams because of pot, E, coke, and all kinds of recreational drugs. Strange thst you think heroin is a special case in that context. And you are so incredibly wrong about only people hooked on dope dying of fentanyl. That is just incorrect. You don't know the facts at all as far as the fentanyl crisis goes, clearly, and you just have some idea about heroin that is untrue. You are believing a false stigma if you refuse to acknowledge that heroin is used recreationally and that it is the one main drug to point at in terms of fentanyl. The media got you to believe these things that aren't actually true. And I have known plenty of junkies. How many do you know?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Where did I say it's not an issue. But to dismiss heroin as a recreational drug is idiotic
Really? It's idiotic to "dismiss" heroin (which I didn't do) as a recreational drug, when 90% of those who use it do so recreationally? So basically you're saying it's idiotic to state a fact.
Something that kills 10k people a year and has prisons bursting at the seems is not recreational. And the only reason people are dying of Fetanyl is because they are hooked on dope
How many junkies do you know?
Blow is recreation, heroin is not
Alcohol kills WAY more people than that - so I assume you are a tee-totaller, yes? Also, prosons are also bursting at the seams because of pot, E, coke, and all kinds of recreational drugs. Strange thst you think heroin is a special case in that context. And you are so incredibly wrong about only people hooked on dope dying of fentanyl. That is just incorrect. You don't know the facts at all as far as the fentanyl crisis goes, clearly, and you just have some idea about heroin that is untrue. You are believing a false stigma if you refuse to acknowledge that heroin is used recreationally and that it is the one main drug to point at in terms of fentanyl. The media got you to believe these things that aren't actually true. And I have known plenty of junkies. How many do you know?
The media has nothing to do with it. Have two good high school friends who OD'd. Currently waiting on my brother in law to OD or kill himself.
The demographics of panhandlers in Philly has gone from old guys to 20 something year old junkies (male and female). You can barely get on public transportation without seeing someone who can't hold their head up. 10 years ago this wasn't the case at all. Give me a fucking break about the media.
My sister is a defense lawyer, the vast majority drug cases she gets are heroin.
You two should lighten up on each other, after you get past the splitting of hairs, you are on the same side here aren't you?
It's both, heroin addiction is growing and fentanyl is increasing the OD rates. Here in Ohio it is truly an epidemic, a huge batch of heroin laced with carfentanyl made the rounds on the I77 corridor through Cleveland/Akron/Canton and beyond and caused more OD deaths in 2 months this summer than there were in all of Ohio last year.
You two should lighten up on each other, after you get past the splitting of hairs, you are on the same side here aren't you?
It's both, heroin addiction is growing and fentanyl is increasing the OD rates. Here in Ohio it is truly an epidemic, a huge batch of heroin laced with carfentanyl made the rounds on the I77 corridor through Cleveland/Akron/Canton and beyond and caused more OD deaths in 2 months this summer than there were in all of Ohio last year.
I don't think we are. Unless I am misunderstanding something, I get the sense she thinks heroin is just another recreational drug. There is nothing in its history or current rise to suggest such a thing
Where did I say it's not an issue. But to dismiss heroin as a recreational drug is idiotic
Really? It's idiotic to "dismiss" heroin (which I didn't do) as a recreational drug, when 90% of those who use it do so recreationally? So basically you're saying it's idiotic to state a fact.
Something that kills 10k people a year and has prisons bursting at the seems is not recreational. And the only reason people are dying of Fetanyl is because they are hooked on dope
How many junkies do you know?
Blow is recreation, heroin is not
Alcohol kills WAY more people than that - so I assume you are a tee-totaller, yes? Also, prosons are also bursting at the seams because of pot, E, coke, and all kinds of recreational drugs. Strange thst you think heroin is a special case in that context. And you are so incredibly wrong about only people hooked on dope dying of fentanyl. That is just incorrect. You don't know the facts at all as far as the fentanyl crisis goes, clearly, and you just have some idea about heroin that is untrue. You are believing a false stigma if you refuse to acknowledge that heroin is used recreationally and that it is the one main drug to point at in terms of fentanyl. The media got you to believe these things that aren't actually true. And I have known plenty of junkies. How many do you know?
The media has nothing to do with it. Have two good high school friends who OD'd. Currently waiting on my brother in law to OD or kill himself.
The demographics of panhandlers in Philly has gone from old guys to 20 something year old junkies (male and female). You can barely get on public transportation without seeing someone who can't hold their head up. 10 years ago this wasn't the case at all. Give me a fucking break about the media.
My sister is a defense lawyer, the vast majority drug cases she gets are heroin.
You two should lighten up on each other, after you get past the splitting of hairs, you are on the same side here aren't you?
It's both, heroin addiction is growing and fentanyl is increasing the OD rates. Here in Ohio it is truly an epidemic, a huge batch of heroin laced with carfentanyl made the rounds on the I77 corridor through Cleveland/Akron/Canton and beyond and caused more OD deaths in 2 months this summer than there were in all of Ohio last year.
I don't think we are. Unless I am misunderstanding something, I get the sense she thinks heroin is just another recreational drug. There is nothing in its history or current rise to suggest such a thing
Yes, you are misunderstanding something. Look, the fact of the matter is that 90% of drug users are not addicts. That includes those who use heroin. That does not mean for a second that those 10% who are addicts don't constitute a terrible problem. That is still a lot of people and they are very much at risk. However, that doesn't mean that the statistics on actual drug use should dismissed. Heroin IS still the second most popular recreationally used drug after pot. This is a fact, not an opinion. And just like alcoholism is a terrible problem that people are concerned about even though 90% or so of those who use it aren't alcoholics, heroin is a terrible problem even though most people who use it aren't addicts. The question is.... why is alcohol so acceptable while heroin isn't, even though alcohol kills far more people and ruins more lives? I don't think you can deny that... so why the bias? I just think these kinds of issues should be looked at objectively, and I don't think you are doing that.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
That link I posted said 23% of people who use heroin become addicts. That is a pretty significant number, no? Find me any other drug that has that kind of rate and we can have a discussion
the numbers you throw out aren't supported by anything it seems.
I am looking at it objectively. You are pushing a narrative that heroin is no more of a problem than beer which is fucking stupid.
And yes, alcohol has significant problems, both from a health and social perspective, but how can you deny that opiates and heroin is not a massive massive fucking problem. I don't know how you can deny how fucking addictive heroin is and what it does to people, many good people.
I have never seen alcohol take over people's lives the way I have seen heroin. And from the rising number of people I see around the city, nodding off, it seems I'm not alone
Can you imagine what the death numbers would look like if the same number of people who drink used heroin?
It had been a while since I looked it up and saw around 10%, but I am now reading 13.4%.
Where?
The 23% is the number from the national institute on drug abuse
The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration.
Anyway, yes, heroin is bad of course, but the main point was that fentanyl is a current health crisis that is not synonymous with heroin. Yes, it's absolutely being found in heroin. But it is extremely prevalent in other drugs as well, like all kinds of pills, and even showing up in weed now. This is why the death and OD rates have skyrocketed like they have. All kinds of drug users, including a bunch of recreational users (including plenty of kids) are being affected rather than just addicts, who used to be the huge majority of OD cases just because of the regular, non-tainted drug.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In great news related to the original thread post, negotiation by the pan-Canadian Pharmaceutical Alliance with the major drug companies has brought down the price of the new Hep C treatments to the point where they will be covered by pharmacare programs (confirmed in BC for now and I assume other provinces will announce coverage).
For the past few years health care professionals in BC have been in an awful bind; these incredibly effective but costly medications, which have a 95% cure rate, were only covered by pharmacare when the patient already had significant Hep C damage. Thus, we had to watch patients get sicker and sicker before they could be treated, knowing that the damage being done is irreversible. This had been judged to be the only cost effective way to do it, because not everyone progresses to that stage of liver damage. Thankfully, as of 2018, all patients with Hep C can be treated.
Comments
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I'd say anything that kills 10k Americans a year is an epidemic.
It's also semantics. Walking down the streets of philly you can see the difference in heroin use from 10 years ago.
How many junkies do you know?
Blow is recreation, heroin is not
And I have known plenty of junkies. How many do you know?
The demographics of panhandlers in Philly has gone from old guys to 20 something year old junkies (male and female). You can barely get on public transportation without seeing someone who can't hold their head up. 10 years ago this wasn't the case at all. Give me a fucking break about the media.
My sister is a defense lawyer, the vast majority drug cases she gets are heroin.
Are these isolated incidents?
Nope, nothing to see here, folks...move along
http://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/advocacy/opioid-addiction-disease-facts-figures.pdf
It's both, heroin addiction is growing and fentanyl is increasing the OD rates.
Here in Ohio it is truly an epidemic, a huge batch of heroin laced with carfentanyl made the rounds on the I77 corridor through Cleveland/Akron/Canton and beyond and caused more OD deaths in 2 months this summer than there were in all of Ohio last year.
Look, the fact of the matter is that 90% of drug users are not addicts. That includes those who use heroin. That does not mean for a second that those 10% who are addicts don't constitute a terrible problem. That is still a lot of people and they are very much at risk. However, that doesn't mean that the statistics on actual drug use should dismissed. Heroin IS still the second most popular recreationally used drug after pot. This is a fact, not an opinion. And just like alcoholism is a terrible problem that people are concerned about even though 90% or so of those who use it aren't alcoholics, heroin is a terrible problem even though most people who use it aren't addicts. The question is.... why is alcohol so acceptable while heroin isn't, even though alcohol kills far more people and ruins more lives? I don't think you can deny that... so why the bias? I just think these kinds of issues should be looked at objectively, and I don't think you are doing that.
the numbers you throw out aren't supported by anything it seems.
I am looking at it objectively. You are pushing a narrative that heroin is no more of a problem than beer which is fucking stupid.
The 23% is the number from the national institute on drug abuse
I have never seen alcohol take over people's lives the way I have seen heroin. And from the rising number of people I see around the city, nodding off, it seems I'm not alone
Can you imagine what the death numbers would look like if the same number of people who drink used heroin?
Anyway, yes, heroin is bad of course, but the main point was that fentanyl is a current health crisis that is not synonymous with heroin. Yes, it's absolutely being found in heroin. But it is extremely prevalent in other drugs as well, like all kinds of pills, and even showing up in weed now. This is why the death and OD rates have skyrocketed like they have. All kinds of drug users, including a bunch of recreational users (including plenty of kids) are being affected rather than just addicts, who used to be the huge majority of OD cases just because of the regular, non-tainted drug.
For the past few years health care professionals in BC have been in an awful bind; these incredibly effective but costly medications, which have a 95% cure rate, were only covered by pharmacare when the patient already had significant Hep C damage. Thus, we had to watch patients get sicker and sicker before they could be treated, knowing that the damage being done is irreversible. This had been judged to be the only cost effective way to do it, because not everyone progresses to that stage of liver damage. Thankfully, as of 2018, all patients with Hep C can be treated.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/deal-reduces-price-of-life-saving-hepatitis-c-drugs-for-canadians/article34107225/