I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
That's not what I meant. I meant to say if they know no other way... everything is cool.
I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
That's not what I meant. I meant to say if they know no other way... everything is cool.
but if they do know and lived so previously as the real person I described?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
That's not what I meant. I meant to say if they know no other way... everything is cool.
but if they do know and lived so previously as the real person I described?
Then that's cool, I guess.
Hey... we see all kinds. We see seemingly well-advised people suddenly abandon their way of life (families, jobs, etc.) to join cults. Human nature is incredibly complex to the point where describing 'normal' is challenging to say the least.
I speak from my perspective. When I say I feel these women could do better... I do so because I'd like to see them do better for themselves in the world according to me. I most certainly could have things wrong in these situations. These women could be doing better than I ever could imagine and even better than the more 'liberal' woman typical of the west.
I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
That's not what I meant. I meant to say if they know no other way... everything is cool.
but if they do know and lived so previously as the real person I described?
Then that's cool, I guess.
Hey... we see all kinds. We see seemingly well-advised people suddenly abandon their way of life (families, jobs, etc.) to join cults. Human nature is incredibly complex to the point where describing 'normal' is challenging to say the least.
I speak from my perspective. When I say I feel these women could do better... I do so because I'd like to see them do better for themselves in the world according to me. I most certainly could have things wrong in these situations. These women could be doing better than I ever could imagine and even better than the more 'liberal' woman typical of the west.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I had assumed the same as others, that the hijab etc were signs of oppression and degrading women. Then I asked my best friend, a Bosnian Muslim, her own views and those of her friends and acquaintances who actually wear them. It's all very well for us to stand in judgement and make assumptions based on our own culture and beliefs but it's quite arrogant of us to do so. In fact, in making such judgements, it may be us who are the oppressors.
Yes my friend spoke of the idea of modesty but she gave me a new perspective on it. To those women who choose to wear these garments of their own free will, they actually see it as a means of empowerment. It gives them control over who they allow to see their body, a gift that they can choose to bestow or deny.
Food for thought
Some Muslim women raised from birth to believe and act a certain way cannot see the problem for what it is.
Just as people buy into magnificent, magical and wonderful gods that they need to placate so that they can assume a spot in the really cool place once this term is over... oppressed women believe they are not oppressed for lack of vision and understanding.
It's like the victim of abuse that thinks they are deserving of the abuse... or the anorexic woman seeing obesity when she looks in the mirror.
There's a woman that attends the AA meeting I go to on Saturdays. White middle-aged American born and raised here, grown adult children. At some point in her sobriety she chose to convert to Islam. There is nothing in this woman's demeanor actions or words that suggests to me that she feels oppressed nor is she ignorant much less to the point where she wouldn't recognize oppression were it to exist for her. I should also add she remarried a man from a country , I'm not sure which but is in Arab country.
She drives herself and by all appearances quite happy in her life and choices made.
Ignorance is bliss.
You sound like you're saying that anyone who chooses to be Muslim is ignorant. I really hope not, as that would show a depressing level of both ignorance and arrogance on your own part
That's not what I meant. I meant to say if they know no other way... everything is cool.
but if they do know and lived so previously as the real person I described?
Then that's cool, I guess.
Hey... we see all kinds. We see seemingly well-advised people suddenly abandon their way of life (families, jobs, etc.) to join cults. Human nature is incredibly complex to the point where describing 'normal' is challenging to say the least.
I speak from my perspective. When I say I feel these women could do better... I do so because I'd like to see them do better for themselves in the world according to me. I most certainly could have things wrong in these situations. These women could be doing better than I ever could imagine and even better than the more 'liberal' woman typical of the west.
I can appreciate that. Thank you.
Lol.
I saw a reply from you and figured 'Oh Christ'... a left hook was headed my way. I was getting ready to bob and weave... maybe flick a few jabs or something.
Honestly, if people are truly happy and leave others alone... I'm okay with them. I might not agree, but I can accept.
"Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.
In what kind of society is it 'good morals' to force a woman to disrobe? If you choose to direct your social justice efforts toward banning the burqa, this should piss you off just as much.
"When, as happened in France, an attempt to coerce women out of the burqa rather than creating a situation in which a woman can choose what she wishes to do, it's not about liberating her, but almost unclothing her. It becomes an act of humiliation and cultural imperialism. It's not about the burqa. It's about coercion. Coercing a woman out of a burqa is as bad as coercing her into one". -Arundhati Roy
Yeah, this is horrible. I don't know if this will last long though. I can't see most French people being any more comfortable with this than any of us are..... I hope.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Hey... we see all kinds. We see seemingly well-advised people suddenly abandon their way of life (families, jobs, etc.) to join cults. Human nature is incredibly complex to the point where describing 'normal' is challenging to say the least.
I speak from my perspective. When I say I feel these women could do better... I do so because I'd like to see them do better for themselves in the world according to me. I most certainly could have things wrong in these situations. These women could be doing better than I ever could imagine and even better than the more 'liberal' woman typical of the west.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I saw a reply from you and figured 'Oh Christ'... a left hook was headed my way. I was getting ready to bob and weave... maybe flick a few jabs or something.
Honestly, if people are truly happy and leave others alone... I'm okay with them. I might not agree, but I can accept.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-police-make-woman-remove-burkini-on-nice-beach/ar-BBvYpQb?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
"Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.
In what kind of society is it 'good morals' to force a woman to disrobe? If you choose to direct your social justice efforts toward banning the burqa, this should piss you off just as much.
"When, as happened in France, an attempt to coerce women out of the burqa rather than creating a situation in which a woman can choose what she wishes to do, it's not about liberating her, but almost unclothing her.
It becomes an act of humiliation and cultural imperialism.
It's not about the burqa. It's about coercion. Coercing a woman out of a burqa is as bad as coercing her into one".
-Arundhati Roy
When attending a beach there are two rules.
Males - speedo or shorts.
Females - bikini
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14