Animals in Captivity

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

I m still pissed you chose hawaii over New Jersey.

hedonist

Ha, gruff!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

I m still pissed you chose hawaii over New Jersey.

Hahaha

Malroth

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

I can usually see things from both sides (except maybe with my wife), so I am not that good at arguing my points.

If you are upset at zoos keeping animals in captivity, are you upset with people keeping pets?

PJ_Soul

Malroth said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

I can usually see things from both sides (except maybe with my wife), so I am not that good at arguing my points.

If you are upset at zoos keeping animals in captivity, are you upset with people keeping pets?

Pets are usually domesticated animals that can't live in the wild (or if they do, they suffer), not wild animals, so it's not comparable. I am certainly upset about people keeping non-domesticated animals as pets.

callen

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I get what is being said, though, polaris. it's an interesting thought, though. how can anything we do NOT be considered natural? just because we consume more than we need, doesn't mean it's not natural. it's part of our UNFORTUNATE evolution into who we are.

there are many species of animal that doesn't use up every part of their kill. is that not considered selfish or wasteful if it was to be anthropomorphised? if that's even a word. but I think you get what I mean.

I don't think they are making excuses, I think they are just stating things are they currently are. they aren't saying "let's cut down more forests! it's in our nature to do so!". it's just stating a fact of what is currently going on.

i would hope we are not debating whether the tern natural is proper or not ... it's semantics that really has no bearing on the issue whatsoever ... i could care less if they want to call global warming part of evolution ...

the crux of the discussion for me has always been, for the most part, whether or not the survival of a species is more important than the life of a child ... what i'm getting from them is that species come and go and that losing gorillas is no big deal ...

as for your example of animals not using every part of the kill ... remember there are scavengers in the ecosystem too ... so, often a lion may leave a portion of a kill when it is full in order for scavengers to finish the rest ...

life on this planet is predicated on a balance of sorts ... the more we throw things out of whack - the more likely we are to cause major catastrophes (see global warming) ...

And my answer is still the life of my species is more important than any other species.

Your species sucks. Virus. Greedy. Wasteful. Evil. and not special.

Thought of starting poll on this.

Choices:

Shoot gorilla

Tranquilize gorilla.

Shoot kid.

Tranquilize kid.

Shoot mother.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I get what is being said, though, polaris. it's an interesting thought, though. how can anything we do NOT be considered natural? just because we consume more than we need, doesn't mean it's not natural. it's part of our UNFORTUNATE evolution into who we are.

there are many species of animal that doesn't use up every part of their kill. is that not considered selfish or wasteful if it was to be anthropomorphised? if that's even a word. but I think you get what I mean.

I don't think they are making excuses, I think they are just stating things are they currently are. they aren't saying "let's cut down more forests! it's in our nature to do so!". it's just stating a fact of what is currently going on.

i would hope we are not debating whether the tern natural is proper or not ... it's semantics that really has no bearing on the issue whatsoever ... i could care less if they want to call global warming part of evolution ...

the crux of the discussion for me has always been, for the most part, whether or not the survival of a species is more important than the life of a child ... what i'm getting from them is that species come and go and that losing gorillas is no big deal ...

as for your example of animals not using every part of the kill ... remember there are scavengers in the ecosystem too ... so, often a lion may leave a portion of a kill when it is full in order for scavengers to finish the rest ...

life on this planet is predicated on a balance of sorts ... the more we throw things out of whack - the more likely we are to cause major catastrophes (see global warming) ...

And my answer is still the life of my species is more important than any other species.

Your species sucks. Virus. Greedy. Wasteful. Evil. and not special.

Thought of starting poll on this.

Choices:

Shoot gorilla

Tranquilize gorilla.

Shoot kid.

Tranquilize kid.

Shoot mother.

I choose 1 and 5.

HughFreakingDillon

Malroth said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Malroth said:

Hey, I rarely visit the train, but am interested in this story.
Have we came to a consensus yet? Are we arguing?

Not too sure really.

Where are you at with things?

I can usually see things from both sides (except maybe with my wife), so I am not that good at arguing my points.

If you are upset at zoos keeping animals in captivity, are you upset with people keeping pets?

I was thinking about this myself. we got our girls 2 goldfish a while back. My thinking was always these things have a memory span of about half a second, so keeping them in a watery cage really makes no difference. however, after doing some research, goldfish come to recognize their owners (which I can actually attest to), they have about a 3 month short term memory, they can even be taught tricks for fricks sakes. So, yes, even though they are "just" goldfish, I somewhat now regret getting them.

I think having a bird as a pet is one of the cruelest things you can do. clip its wings (or not) and keep it locked up. imagine you had the ability to fly and someone kept you locked up.

having a dog or a cat, not so much. they seem to enjoy the companionship, and as long as you take them outside, I'm sure they are happy. dogs more than cats. I hate that cats are, at least in Winnipeg, not allowed outside unleashed. they are natural roamers. my childhood cats would leave the house and come back a couple days later.

now we have squirrels, crows, and rabbits running the neighbourhood. tell me which are more annoying. cats were natural neighbourhood pest control. "oh, he shit in my garden". yep. but now the rabbits eat all of your flowers and the crows leave behind bunny carcasses. me thinks a little bit of cat shit in the mud ain't such a big problem now, is it?

rollings

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

The answer is incredibly simple.

We DIDN'T evolve from apes, we evolved WITH apes from a long extinct common ancestor.
That's 5th grade science.

It makes me sad that we push out so much hard won fundamental knowledge for vacuous entertainment, for inane office tasks and career specific information wholly unconnected to the physical existence of our lives.

Not a judgement, I don't mean to insult anyone, it just depresses me. People don't know where they come from, what they are, or where the tools, foods, and energy they use come from.
Society is in real trouble if life ever gets difficult again.

Since Mr Lux isn't around right now I am doubling down on granola to cover for him!

well if rollings wanted the simplified answer, then yes, I'm sure most people could answer that without research.

the problem is, people blindly follow Rush and the like and it's dangerous. if you have a platform and spew ignorant views, expect to be called out for it.

I think specifically that there was a DNA flaw that affected a jaw muscle that runs through the base of the skull. it resulted in a ship-shod flimsy muscle making for a weakling jaw. the crushing action was no longer possible. good thing though cuz it made room for MORE BRAINS

Degeneratefk

callen said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I get what is being said, though, polaris. it's an interesting thought, though. how can anything we do NOT be considered natural? just because we consume more than we need, doesn't mean it's not natural. it's part of our UNFORTUNATE evolution into who we are.

there are many species of animal that doesn't use up every part of their kill. is that not considered selfish or wasteful if it was to be anthropomorphised? if that's even a word. but I think you get what I mean.

I don't think they are making excuses, I think they are just stating things are they currently are. they aren't saying "let's cut down more forests! it's in our nature to do so!". it's just stating a fact of what is currently going on.

i would hope we are not debating whether the tern natural is proper or not ... it's semantics that really has no bearing on the issue whatsoever ... i could care less if they want to call global warming part of evolution ...

the crux of the discussion for me has always been, for the most part, whether or not the survival of a species is more important than the life of a child ... what i'm getting from them is that species come and go and that losing gorillas is no big deal ...

as for your example of animals not using every part of the kill ... remember there are scavengers in the ecosystem too ... so, often a lion may leave a portion of a kill when it is full in order for scavengers to finish the rest ...

life on this planet is predicated on a balance of sorts ... the more we throw things out of whack - the more likely we are to cause major catastrophes (see global warming) ...

And my answer is still the life of my species is more important than any other species.

Your species sucks. Virus. Greedy. Wasteful. Evil. and not special.

Thought of starting poll on this.

Choices:

Shoot gorilla

Tranquilize gorilla.

Shoot kid.

Tranquilize kid.

Shoot mother.

I'm fairly certain that MY species is the same as YOUR species. But either way, no matter how much OUR species sucks, most of us are choosing us over theirs.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Callen gets a little melodramatic sometimes.

Here he speaks of how shitty the human race is- a scourge to the planet that should be cleansed from the face of it, but in other threads... he'll speak to the value that exists in a serial murderer.

I think it depends on what music he has been listening to prior to posting.

lukin2006

Male and two females condemned to life in captivity for killings in India — and they’re human-eating lions

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/human-eating-lions-condemned-to-life-in-captivity-in-india

Seems like a reasonable solution ...

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

Male and two females condemned to life in captivity for killings in India — and they’re human-eating lions

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/human-eating-lions-condemned-to-life-in-captivity-in-india

Seems like a reasonable solution ...

I think that's sick. Better to kill them than cage them, frankly.

lukin2006

^^^maybe ... I guess it depends how big the enclosure is, relocating in India is likely not an option. Hey maybe with some good behaviour they will be offered supervised parole, then maybe day parole and then just maybe full parole.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... Your against the death penalty? If you are, then why is it ok to lock up humans for life. I don't know the answers, but for now these lions have life, maybe at some point someone will come up with a better solution, maybe, not likely though ... But for now at least that's hopeful.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

^^^maybe ... I guess it depends how big the enclosure is, relocating in India is likely not an option. Hey maybe with some good behaviour they will be offered supervised parole, then maybe day parole and then just maybe full parole.

Correct me if I'm wrong ... Your against the death penalty? If you are, then why is it ok to lock up humans for life. I don't know the answers, but for now these lions have life, maybe at some point someone will come up with a better solution, maybe, not likely though ... But for now at least that's hopeful.

Because innocent people get convicted. Also because a government should never have the right to murder its own citizens. As far as wild animals go... I do NOT support killing them. I just also don't support torturing them by locking them up (sorry, I don't compare human beings and animals in this context really, because humans can make decisions and killing other people is WRONG for them. Human murderers are morally corrupt. Hunting other animals, including humans, is not wrong or morally corrupt for lions. Punishment is a moot point when it comes to animals. It's not for people. You also can't relocate human beings into the middle of nowhere, away from all people. That's not realistic). So anyway, if I have to choose between torturing a wild animal for years and years by caging them, or killing a wild animal to avoid that torture, I'm going to have to choose killing them. Not because I'm okay with it. On the other hand, I'm not a fucking PETA member, lol. I'm not going to flip out if an animal that has been stalking and killing a bunch of people is shot in order to protect the human population. It makes me sad, and I wish they would relocate them for sure, but I'm still a logical, reasonable person who understands the facts of life.

lukin2006

^^^understood,

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Elephant hurls a stone at people and kills a seven year old girl:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/middleeast/elephant-kills-child-morocco/

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

Look at it this way, Thirty.  If I locked you in a cage and let hundreds or even thousands of people gawk at you everyday and I forgot to lock the gate one day, what would you do?

All kidding aside, I'm for closing all zoos except petting zoos for domesticate animals and using all the money that goes to support them to buy up and create habitat for wild life.