$15 an hour VS. Robotics

Godfather.

if you think Corporate America is concerned about their employee's read this, anything that you get is only given as means to keep your services until you are no longer needed, this why we need unions.

Godfather.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/05/24/fmr-mcdonalds-usa-ceo-35k-robots-cheaper-than-hiring-at-15-per-hour.html

Jason P

Who could have seen this coming?

Shawshank

The dumbshits who think entry level, minimum wage jobs, constitute a lifetime career and should be paid as such, are on the cusp of protesting themselves out of any job at all. With that said, I do believe it should be up to individual states. Especially since California is so fucked up you'd probably have to make $20 an hour as a high school student just to get by. But in 5 or 10 years it will be so automated with robotics it won't even matter.

rgambs

Robotics is nothing new, linking the trend to proposed higher minimum wage is just about foolish.
Machines will always be cheaper than humans, and businesses will always make the investment to save money, nothing new.

Godfather.

it just sickens me when you search and find out how much the upper crust receives compared to it's employees....but you could look at it like this, the upper crust went to school and worked to get where they are and weren't satisfied flipping burgers, just because one may dedicate their life to a place does not mean advancement in said company unless they take advantage of the opportunities these large corp's usually offer like education or advanced training in other areas.

Godfather.

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

it just sickens me when you search and find out how much the upper crust receives compared to it's employees....but you could look at it like this, the upper crust went to school and worked to get where they are and weren't satisfied flipping burgers, just because one may dedicate their life to a place does not mean advancement in said company unless they take advantage of the opportunities these large corp's usually offer like education or advanced training in other areas.

Godfather.

and yet you vote republican

Godfather.

Gern Blansten said:

Godfather. said:

it just sickens me when you search and find out how much the upper crust receives compared to it's employees....but you could look at it like this, the upper crust went to school and worked to get where they are and weren't satisfied flipping burgers, just because one may dedicate their life to a place does not mean advancement in said company unless they take advantage of the opportunities these large corp's usually offer like education or advanced training in other areas.

Godfather.

and yet you vote republican

not always, depends on who's running.

Godfather.

Gern Blansten

republican = anti union

doesn't matter

Godfather.

Gern Blansten said:

republican = anti union

doesn't matter

Obama ? I have a hard time trusting any politician, as a union officer I witnessed politician's come to our hall and ask for money and votes then after the money and votes came thru..they left us, and I have seen that happen more than once, how often do you hear any politician publicly say that they are proud union supporter's ? let me tell you something man, we have been on our own without any real political backing for a long time, everything we have we have fought for ourselves and that's where the real power of the unions lay, in every member willing to stand up to the companies we work for.

Godfather.

Smellyman

bigotry trumps normal human empathy


pun

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

republican = anti union

doesn't matter

Obama ? I have a hard time trusting any politician, as a union officer I witnessed politician's come to our hall and ask for money and votes then after the money and votes came thru..they left us, and I have seen that happen more than once, how often do you hear any politician publicly say that they are proud union supporter's ? let me tell you something man, we have been on our own without any real political backing for a long time, everything we have we have fought for ourselves and that's where the real power of the unions lay, in every member willing to stand up to the companies we work for.

Godfather.

You've been on your own yet you support Trump....the anti union guy.

Makes total sense

mace1229

McDonald's isn't the first fast food to say they will rely more on robotics. Of course the use of robotics will continue to increase no matter the minimum wage, but an increase in minimum wage will speed up the process and make it happen faster.
I personally think $15/hour is ridiculous. Most who support it say you can't raise a family on $15. Of course you can't, that's why most minimum wage jobs are meant for high school or part time college kids. What high school kid living at home and doesn't have any bills to pay needs $15/hr flipping burgers? And within months you can get raises at these minimum wage jobs. I know high school students who are already managers at local fast food and make more than that within 6 months of working anyway.
And what about those jobs that already pay $15/hr that require some skill and education? They will become a minimum wage job because many of those employers can't afford to pay more and become equal in pay to a no skill/no education job. So now these jobs that require education and training will be competing with minimum wage/no skill jobs.
Here's a better solution. Lets just offer free education to anyone in the United States through the 12th grade so they can get a free high school diploma and get a better than minimum wage job. Sounds like a great idea to me!

mickeyrat

automation is where a big portion of jobs went.

rgambs

mace1229 said:

McDonald's isn't the first fast food to say they will rely more on robotics. Of course the use of robotics will continue to increase no matter the minimum wage, but an increase in minimum wage will speed up the process and make it happen faster.
I personally think $15/hour is ridiculous. Most who support it say you can't raise a family on $15. Of course you can't, that's why most minimum wage jobs are meant for high school or part time college kids. What high school kid living at home and doesn't have any bills to pay needs $15/hr flipping burgers? And within months you can get raises at these minimum wage jobs. I know high school students who are already managers at local fast food and make more than that within 6 months of working anyway.
And what about those jobs that already pay $15/hr that require some skill and education? They will become a minimum wage job because many of those employers can't afford to pay more and become equal in pay to a no skill/no education job. So now these jobs that require education and training will be competing with minimum wage/no skill jobs.
Here's a better solution. Lets just offer free education to anyone in the United States through the 12th grade so they can get a free high school diploma and get a better than minimum wage job. Sounds like a great idea to me!

Bullshit.

The jobs are meant to provide a service so the business can make a profit. McDonald's doesn't employ people so that kids will have pocket cash, they do it for their own profit.
If their business is capable of making a healthy profit and paying a living wage, they should be compelled to do so in such a wonderful place as America.

lukin2006

Simple solution ... If you are opposed to business that pays less than a living wage then DON'T ever support those business's. It'd be tough but probably doable.

lukin2006

What Canada Can Learn From Sweden's Unionized Retail Workers

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/18/sweden-retail-unions_n_6888328.html

Unions today have outlived their usefulness for the most part in Canada or the States ... They are essentially just another political party except they have no influence and in many places union dues are compulsory. Essentially the union leadership is healed by this simple statement " we will ship your jobs overseas or contract out".

EarlWelsh

Godfather. said:

if you think Corporate America is concerned about their employee's read this, anything that you get is only given as means to keep your services until you are no longer needed, this why we need union's.

Godfather.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/05/24/fmr-mcdonalds-usa-ceo-35k-robots-cheaper-than-hiring-at-15-per-hour.html

Dude....we really have to work on your use of apostrophe's.

mace1229

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

McDonald's isn't the first fast food to say they will rely more on robotics. Of course the use of robotics will continue to increase no matter the minimum wage, but an increase in minimum wage will speed up the process and make it happen faster.
I personally think $15/hour is ridiculous. Most who support it say you can't raise a family on $15. Of course you can't, that's why most minimum wage jobs are meant for high school or part time college kids. What high school kid living at home and doesn't have any bills to pay needs $15/hr flipping burgers? And within months you can get raises at these minimum wage jobs. I know high school students who are already managers at local fast food and make more than that within 6 months of working anyway.
And what about those jobs that already pay $15/hr that require some skill and education? They will become a minimum wage job because many of those employers can't afford to pay more and become equal in pay to a no skill/no education job. So now these jobs that require education and training will be competing with minimum wage/no skill jobs.
Here's a better solution. Lets just offer free education to anyone in the United States through the 12th grade so they can get a free high school diploma and get a better than minimum wage job. Sounds like a great idea to me!

Bullshit.

The jobs are meant to provide a service so the business can make a profit. McDonald's doesn't employ people so that kids will have pocket cash, they do it for their own profit.
If their business is capable of making a healthy profit and paying a living wage, they should be compelled to do so in such a wonderful place as America.

100% agree that McDonald's is in business to make a profit and not to provide jobs for high school kids or anyone else. Which is why they should be allowed to pay jobs based on the skills required and the employee filling it. I'm not opposed to giving a living wage. I'm opposed to giving a living wage to a 15 year old kid living at home without any bills to pay who takes the trash out twice an hour and refills the napkins. And that's half the staff at any fast food. If the job doesn't require a high school education, the pay should reflect that. If it does require education or other skills, it should reflect that as well.

I think the original article posted had a good point. “I think we ought to have a multi-faceted wage program in this country. If you’re a high school kid, you ought to have a student wage. If you’re an entry level worker you ought to have a separate wage." and include living wages for head of households. If you don't like the student wage, you should be compelled to finish high school.

What advantage is it to go to school, pay for that school have an important job like an EMT, or dental assistant, or paralegal that make about $15 an hour. Or push yourself even harder to go to a more expensive school and become a nurse to make $20 an hour. Or you can be the kid who drops out of high school and makes the same amount refilling napkins at 15 years old? So by the time you're 16 you can be assistant manager making $20.

lukin2006

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

McDonald's isn't the first fast food to say they will rely more on robotics. Of course the use of robotics will continue to increase no matter the minimum wage, but an increase in minimum wage will speed up the process and make it happen faster.
I personally think $15/hour is ridiculous. Most who support it say you can't raise a family on $15. Of course you can't, that's why most minimum wage jobs are meant for high school or part time college kids. What high school kid living at home and doesn't have any bills to pay needs $15/hr flipping burgers? And within months you can get raises at these minimum wage jobs. I know high school students who are already managers at local fast food and make more than that within 6 months of working anyway.
And what about those jobs that already pay $15/hr that require some skill and education? They will become a minimum wage job because many of those employers can't afford to pay more and become equal in pay to a no skill/no education job. So now these jobs that require education and training will be competing with minimum wage/no skill jobs.
Here's a better solution. Lets just offer free education to anyone in the United States through the 12th grade so they can get a free high school diploma and get a better than minimum wage job. Sounds like a great idea to me!

Bullshit.

The jobs are meant to provide a service so the business can make a profit. McDonald's doesn't employ people so that kids will have pocket cash, they do it for their own profit.
If their business is capable of making a healthy profit and paying a living wage, they should be compelled to do so in such a wonderful place as America.

100% agree that McDonald's is in business to make a profit and not to provide jobs for high school kids or anyone else. Which is why they should be allowed to pay jobs based on the skills required and the employee filling it. I'm not opposed to giving a living wage. I'm opposed to giving a living wage to a 15 year old kid living at home without any bills to pay who takes the trash out twice an hour and refills the napkins. And that's half the staff at any fast food. If the job doesn't require a high school education, the pay should reflect that. If it does require education or other skills, it should reflect that as well.

I think the original article posted had a good point. “I think we ought to have a multi-faceted wage program in this country. If you’re a high school kid, you ought to have a student wage. If you’re an entry level worker you ought to have a separate wage." and include living wages for head of households. If you don't like the student wage, you should be compelled to finish high school.

What advantage is it to go to school, pay for that school have an important job like an EMT, or dental assistant, or paralegal that make about $15 an hour. Or push yourself even harder to go to a more expensive school and become a nurse to make $20 an hour. Or you can be the kid who drops out of high school and makes the same amount refilling napkins at 15 years old? So by the time you're 16 you can be assistant manager making $20.

No EMT or dental assistant where I live make 15 an hour...it's more than that, no nurses where I'm at make 20, once again higher, much higher ... Maybe all these corporation have raised their price's of the products they are selling to cover cost of living then some, but in know way have the salaries and wages reflected that in the wage increases over the years ... Just doesn't ...

mace1229

I have known a couple EMT's and they all made under $20. I just googled it, the first response reported the average being $15.24/hr. Obviously higher (and lower) in some areas, but this was the average.
I just read through about the first 5 search results and were all very similar. Here's one with a breakdown by state even.
http://www.healthcaresalaryonline.com/emergencymedicaltechniciansandparamedic-state-salary.html

rgambs

mace1229 said:

I have known a couple EMT's and they all made under $20. I just googled it, the first response reported the average being $15.24/hr. Obviously higher (and lower) in some areas, but this was the average.
I just read through about the first 5 search results and were all very similar. Here's one with a breakdown by state even.
http://www.healthcaresalaryonline.com/emergencymedicaltechniciansandparamedic-state-salary.html

How can we expect to get them the pay they deserve in an economy where the minimum wage is so low?

It's funny, people defend trickle down economics by saying, a rising tide lifts all boats...until the tide is minimum wage, and then suddenly it's a flood that only effects the cheapest boats!

mace1229

I just did a similar search for DA, and it was very similar to an EMT. From what I saw for nurses it was a little higher, average being about mid 20's. But that was the average, so yes in some areas you can be a certified nurse making $20 in charge of someone's life, or flipping burgers making $15. Same with an EMT, you want the person saving your life making the same amount as the person asking if you want extra mac sauce with that?

rgambs

mace1229 said:

I just did a similar search for DA, and it was very similar to an EMT. From what I saw for nurses it was a little higher, average being about mid 20's. But that was the average, so yes in some areas you can be a certified nurse making $20 in charge of someone's life, or flipping burgers making $15. Same with an EMT, you want the person saving your life making the same amount as the person asking if you want extra mac sauce with that?

No, we want everyone to get the pay they deserve, you do our first responders a disservice with this argument.

mace1229

By saying they deserve more than minimum wage does them a disservice? Seems kinda the opposite to me.
Because at a minimum wage of $15 that's what they will be at, but they do deserve more than minimum wage..

rgambs

mace1229 said:

By saying they deserve more than minimum wage does them a disservice? Seems kinda the opposite to me.
Because at a minimum wage of $15 that's what they will be at, but they do deserve more than minimum wage..

You aren't saying they deserve more, you are using them as evidence of why others deserve less.
Be a champion for them if that's what you want to do, don't use them to hold down others.
If min wage goes to 15$ they will jump closer to 30$ and everybody wins.

mace1229

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

By saying they deserve more than minimum wage does them a disservice? Seems kinda the opposite to me.
Because at a minimum wage of $15 that's what they will be at, but they do deserve more than minimum wage..

You aren't saying they deserve more, you are using them as evidence of why others deserve less.
Be a champion for them if that's what you want to do, don't use them to hold down others.
If min wage goes to 15$ they will jump closer to 30$ and everybody wins.

That's called inflation.

mace1229

I didn't mean to sound degrading to any profession. I believe its common knowledge with most of these salaries I mentioned and they do deserve more. But if we raise the wage of a minimum skill job, then raise the wage of jobs that require more skills, that's exactly what inflation is and doesn't help anyone or solve anything.

jeffbr

That's the biggest fear I have, and will admit to not fully understanding the ramifications of increasing the minimum wage to $15/hr. I know I've posted about it here in the past.

If a company currently starts employees at $10/hr, and over the course of time provides wage increases based on seniority or merit, you might have someone making $15/hr who has been there for a number of years, and is now a skilled worker with seniority. If the minimum wage is now mandated to be $15/hr, do you leave your skilled senior workers at $15/hr as well? I would think that would create a lot of animosity. So to combat that, do you provide a commensurate increase to all existing employees so that you aren't paying unskilled and skilled labor the same wage? If so, then everyone makes more, and employee costs skyrocket. The way businesses will compensate for that will be increased prices on goods and services. So now everyone will be making higher wages, but since they'll also be paying increased costs won't we be right back to where we are now in terms of buying power? Suddenly the $15/hr employees will no longer be making a livable wage and we'll be talking again about mandating a new increase.

rgambs

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

By saying they deserve more than minimum wage does them a disservice? Seems kinda the opposite to me.
Because at a minimum wage of $15 that's what they will be at, but they do deserve more than minimum wage..

You aren't saying they deserve more, you are using them as evidence of why others deserve less.
Be a champion for them if that's what you want to do, don't use them to hold down others.
If min wage goes to 15$ they will jump closer to 30$ and everybody wins.

That's called inflation.

Wrong, it is a factor that can contribute to inflation, but at this point it is just trying to keep up with the inflation that has already occured.

mace1229

Exactly what I had in mind when I saying you still need to make wages competitive. If the starting wage is now doubled, every other wage (if they can afford it) will increase within that company or not, and if they cant afford it will lose employees and go out of business.

muskydan

jeffbr said:

That's the biggest fear I have, and will admit to not fully understanding the ramifications of increasing the minimum wage to $15/hr. I know I've posted about it here in the past.

If a company currently starts employees at $10/hr, and over the course of time provides wage increases based on seniority or merit, you might have someone making $15/hr who has been there for a number of years, and is now a skilled worker with seniority. If the minimum wage is now mandated to be $15/hr, do you leave your skilled senior workers at $15/hr as well? I would think that would create a lot of animosity. So to combat that, do you provide a commensurate increase to all existing employees so that you aren't paying unskilled and skilled labor the same wage? If so, then everyone makes more, and employee costs skyrocket. The way businesses will compensate for that will be increased prices on goods and services. So now everyone will be making higher wages, but since they'll also be paying increased costs won't we be right back to where we are now in terms of buying power? Suddenly the $15/hr employees will no longer be making a livable wage and we'll be talking again about mandating a new increase.

I totally agree. Who the hell wants to pay 8 bucks for a big mac????
So has anyone been to a fight for 15 protest/rally? If you have not and care about this issue I strongly encourage you to attend one. If you have children you should bring them along so they understand that an education is really important or you might turn into one of these individuals...