It would be awfully shortsighted of the band to ignore the group (casuals) that purchase 60% of their tickets. That shortsightedness would lead to all sorts of unpleasantness (less shows, less diverse geographies) that the so called diehards wouldn't much like.
Fortunately the band knows better and does take their audience in to account as evidenced by their ability to balance a setlist pretty damn well.
having been a casual fan of many, many classic rock bands for almost 40 years, and having been to 300+ shows from said bands... i can unequivocally say that even a casual fan of this band can appreciate the performance, even if they don't know then song. even after the "disappointment" (NOT) of msg2, i'm pretty sure i'll never miss PJ when i have the chance to see them live.
rick1zoo2
between a rock and a dumb place Posts: 12,632
I am not the casual fan, but I have come to expect that each show, there will be 1-4 songs that either I don't know or don't particularly care for, but it's more than made up for with the rest of the show. I was a bit lost at the PJ20 shows at Alpine.
PJ concert setlists are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get...
wow you are all on a high horse there, hear me having the right to talk smack about others because I have been to 30+ shows you should be ashamed of your self ... Maybe your so called "casual" fan spend the time enjoying the music not carrying about what album the songs was from, just being glad they finally found the money and time to see a great rock band ... Hope you all enjoyed the show no matter what
Burn my eyes and try to blind me
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
wow you are all on a high horse there, hear me having the right to talk smack about others because I have been to 30+ shows you should be ashamed of your self ... Maybe your so called "casual" fan spend the time enjoying the music not carrying about what album the songs was from, just being glad they finally found the money and time to see a great rock band ... Hope you all enjoyed the show no matter what
I'm not judging them... I just don't give a shit about them and what songs they know/like
Why should i? I'm not the band trying to satisfy paying customers... I'm actually the exact opposite
Casual fan was fired up with Go opening (maybe they've heard of DTE and MYM, or at least seen the videos), But either way fired up.
Casual fan was then pretty lost for the next 13 songs. A good hour or so of not really knowing what was going on, and for sure wondering, "how much money did I spend on this ticket?
Casual fan was then whipped right back into shape with Corduroy, Once, and RVM. 3 songs they've surely heard a bunch of times and could really get in to.
Casual fan then got 2 really cool covers, and Betterman and Porch. A great encore for casual fan.
And then a 7 song second encore where casual fan has probably heard of most of the songs.
The thing with casual fan (or those who haven't done any research on PJ shows) is that they were not expecting a 3hr, 33 song set. That's just not the norm for most arena rock shows. They probably thought the night was done after encore 1.
So, all in all, I think casual fan had a great night. Yeah, there was an hour or so in the middle where he lost, wondering what was happening. But the band they knew and loved ended up delivering for them. They got to hear a bunch of hits, sing real loud, and enjoy some nice cover songs.
I think this about sums it up to a tee. But now if I am not mistaken, I did read earlier on the forums, that all of their albums have gone multi platinum in Canada. However, we are talking about a handful of songs that the casual fan were lost while being played. I will say this much, the casual fan is the worse part about not scoring 10c tickets to the show you are attending, for all reasons already mentioned by speedy. The lack of enthusiasm, the texting, the complaining "why aren't they playing the whole Ten album or Vs. Hopefully we will see the day the do a few 10c exclusive shows or tour, all the more reason to do one. (Hopefully in really intimate locations)
With respect to the "multi platinum in Canada" bit I am pretty sure that Nothing As It Seems charted higher in Canada then any other country back in the day when those things were measured. If any country's casual fans could handle a Binaural it would be Canada's.
Local DJ in NY discussed Binaural being played... said he could understand the band doing Ten, VS, No Code or Yield.... but not Binaural....He called Binaural a "snoozer" for fans.... Blasphemy!!!!!!
wow you are all on a high horse there, hear me having the right to talk smack about others because I have been to 30+ shows you should be ashamed of your self ... Maybe your so called "casual" fan spend the time enjoying the music not carrying about what album the songs was from, just being glad they finally found the money and time to see a great rock band ... Hope you all enjoyed the show no matter what
I'm not judging them... I just don't give a shit about them and what songs they know/like
Why should i? I'm not the band trying to satisfy paying customers... I'm actually the exact opposite
Arhhh you do give a shit otherwise you wouldn't have taken your time to write about the subject... And the opposite is what ? A fan paying a band to satisfy him/ them ?
Burn my eyes and try to blind me
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
wow you are all on a high horse there, hear me having the right to talk smack about others because I have been to 30+ shows you should be ashamed of your self ... Maybe your so called "casual" fan spend the time enjoying the music not carrying about what album the songs was from, just being glad they finally found the money and time to see a great rock band ... Hope you all enjoyed the show no matter what
I'm not judging them... I just don't give a shit about them and what songs they know/like
Why should i? I'm not the band trying to satisfy paying customers... I'm actually the exact opposite
Arhhh you do give a shit otherwise you wouldn't have taken your time to write about the subject... And the opposite is what ? A fan paying a band to satisfy him/ them ?
No, trust me, I don't give a shit.. why do I care if someone knows a song or not? I go to concerts all the time where I don't know every song... who cares?
I love going to see neil young... and I love that there are casual fans that haven't bought a neil album since 1978 who are going to walk out pissed he "didn't play the hits"... then they go home, look up the setlist, realize Neil has released 50 albums, and maybe they go buy one of those albums they never heard and discover something new... I also love that he always plays extremely obscure or previously unreleased/unheard songs that I am completely unfamiliar with, even as a hardcore fan
If you never push the boundaries and introduce new music to people you can't create new fans... you end up just playing the same familiar songs to the same people... did pearl jam give a shit when they played songs off of Vs & Vitalogy back in the day before they were released and nobody knew them? Maybe Ed shouldn't have played "Gone" at the borgata in 2005 because nobody would know it? Maybe they should not play "Of The Earth" because it is unreleased and nobody knows it?
Not every song has to be a sing-a-long... actually, there is a little too much of that at PJ shows nowadays in my opinion
Not sure if anyone's said this I haven't read the whole thread but the more I've thought it over I think it was super smart that they played a risky album like Binaural for the casual crowd. A lot of those people might have not known it (the two people I was with who I'd consider casual fans didn't - but still were really into it) but now they are exposed to it for the first time and liked it. So then they realize they haven't checked out all of PJ's library and they should. It's smart!
Not sure if anyone's said this I haven't read the whole thread but the more I've thought it over I think it was super smart that they played a risky album like Binaural for the casual crowd. A lot of those people might have not known it (the two people I was with who I'd consider casual fans didn't - but still were really into it) but now they are exposed to it for the first time and liked it. So then they realize they haven't checked out all of PJ's library and they should. It's smart!
^ Yeah I just read after I posted and saw what you wrote. I don't get what the controversy is. The band played 30+ songs. Does anyone out there really know every single song? And even if you somehow did, why wouldn't you want to hear something fresh you hadn't heard before? I highly doubt any of the casual fans left that place disappointed last night
Local DJ in NY discussed Binaural being played... said he could understand the band doing Ten, VS, No Code or Yield.... but not Binaural....He called Binaural a "snoozer" for fans.... Blasphemy!!!!!!
You could call my wife casual fan ( it was her 3rd show last night ) and she had a great time . She thought it was awesome when I told her what they where Binaural for the 1st time, in fact this morning she stole my iPhone so she could listen to Binaural again.
[img][/img]Kitchener2005
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"No matter how cold the winter, there's a springtime ahead"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
No, trust me, I don't give a shit.. why do I care if someone knows a song or not? I go to concerts all the time where I don't know every song... who cares?
I love going to see neil young... and I love that there are casual fans that haven't bought a neil album since 1978 who are going to walk out pissed he "didn't play the hits"... then they go home, look up the setlist, realize Neil has released 50 albums, and maybe they go buy one of those albums they never heard and discover something new... I also love that he always plays extremely obscure or previously unreleased/unheard songs that I am completely unfamiliar with, even as a hardcore fan
If you never push the boundaries and introduce new music to people you can't create new fans... you end up just playing the same familiar songs to the same people... did pearl jam give a shit when they played songs off of Vs & Vitalogy back in the day before they were released and nobody knew them? Maybe Ed shouldn't have played "Gone" at the borgata in 2005 because nobody would know it? Maybe they should not play "Of The Earth" because it is unreleased and nobody knows it?
Not every song has to be a sing-a-long... actually, there is a little too much of that at PJ shows nowadays in my opinion
Great post. And hell, sometimes hearing something for the first time can hit hard.
I didn't know from Let Me Sleep when I first got into PJ (mid-1999) but first listen, I was hooked. Maybe others did too last night? - or at the least, loved it at the time.
Speedy, I have a couple thoughts for you-- 1) Maybe you are underestimating casual fans? 2) Maybe you aren't underestimating them but they still enjoyed the show? 3) I don't really care if they weren't thrilled with hearing all of Binaural, the rest of us loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wow you are all on a high horse there, hear me having the right to talk smack about others because I have been to 30+ shows you should be ashamed of your self ... Maybe your so called "casual" fan spend the time enjoying the music not carrying about what album the songs was from, just being glad they finally found the money and time to see a great rock band ... Hope you all enjoyed the show no matter what
I'm not judging them... I just don't give a shit about them and what songs they know/like
Why should i? I'm not the band trying to satisfy paying customers... I'm actually the exact opposite
Arhhh you do give a shit otherwise you wouldn't have taken your time to write about the subject... And the opposite is what ? A fan paying a band to satisfy him/ them ?
You can't pay this band to satisfy you. I've tried …
This isn't a greatest hits band and even the most casual fan should know this. Most casual fans I know are aware that Pearl Jam is know for changing up their setlist and play rarities. I dig casual fans because they can be exposed to more of the music they thought didn't exist after Vitalogy and realize how great it is.
Sober casual fan - respects the Binaural material, has a laugh at ed's jokes, remembers the words "bombs dropping down" in Insignificance, and that about it for Binaural lyrics. Sings along wholeheartedly to the hits and older stuff. (the guy in front of me)
Drunk casual fan - keeps yelling for SOLAT, yells at the band when they haven't played a faster/louder/heavier song for 2 songs, complains about everything, gets his SOLAT in the second encore and can't remember anything past the first line. (the guy beside me)
Two different perspectives.
(PS behind me: the evenbro. My beer-covered Foo Fighters sweater has been retired.)
2016 - Toronto I (Binaural!), Toronto II 2020 - Toronto, Hamilton
I am not going to read this thread, but FWIW, casual fans probably keep bands in the black. They are why the radio plays songs and they buy a good half of the tickets for most shows. Almost everyone I know is a "casual music fan", even the ones who claim to really love music. We - the music obsessed (and, as a sub-category for me, PJ obsessed) fans - are the small minority. So thank goodness for casual music fans. There would barely be a music industry without them.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sober casual fan - respects the Binaural material, has a laugh at ed's jokes, remembers the words "bombs dropping down" in Insignificance, and that about it for Binaural lyrics. Sings along wholeheartedly to the hits and older stuff. (the guy in front of me)
Drunk casual fan - keeps yelling for SOLAT, yells at the band when they haven't played a faster/louder/heavier song for 2 songs, complains about everything, gets his SOLAT in the second encore and can't remember anything past the first line. (the guy beside me)
Two different perspectives.
(PS behind me: the evenbro. My beer-covered Foo Fighters sweater has been retired.)
Local DJ in NY discussed Binaural being played... said he could understand the band doing Ten, VS, No Code or Yield.... but not Binaural....He called Binaural a "snoozer" for fans.... Blasphemy!!!!!!
Comments
(Because at least EvenBros offer some sort of entertainment in addition to being annoying)
Fortunately the band knows better and does take their audience in to account as evidenced by their ability to balance a setlist pretty damn well.
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
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http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
PJ concert setlists are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get...
and that's all I have to say about that...
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
Why should i? I'm not the band trying to satisfy paying customers... I'm actually the exact opposite
@branscop
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
LOOKING FOR A SINGLE TICKET TO MSG NIGHT 2
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
I love going to see neil young... and I love that there are casual fans that haven't bought a neil album since 1978 who are going to walk out pissed he "didn't play the hits"... then they go home, look up the setlist, realize Neil has released 50 albums, and maybe they go buy one of those albums they never heard and discover something new... I also love that he always plays extremely obscure or previously unreleased/unheard songs that I am completely unfamiliar with, even as a hardcore fan
If you never push the boundaries and introduce new music to people you can't create new fans... you end up just playing the same familiar songs to the same people... did pearl jam give a shit when they played songs off of Vs & Vitalogy back in the day before they were released and nobody knew them? Maybe Ed shouldn't have played "Gone" at the borgata in 2005 because nobody would know it? Maybe they should not play "Of The Earth" because it is unreleased and nobody knows it?
Not every song has to be a sing-a-long... actually, there is a little too much of that at PJ shows nowadays in my opinion
I don't get what the controversy is. The band played 30+ songs. Does anyone out there really know every single song? And even if you somehow did, why wouldn't you want to hear something fresh you hadn't heard before?
I highly doubt any of the casual fans left that place disappointed last night
It was Anthony on WEHM out in the hamptons...was a bit surprised..
Toronto 2003
Toronto 2000
Barrie 1998
Toronto 1993
London 2005
Toronto 2006 May 9/10
Toronto 2009
Toronto Sept 11/12 2011
London 2013
Detroit 2014
Toronto 2016 May 10/12
Chicago 2018 N2
"No matter how cold the winter, there's a springtime ahead"
I didn't know from Let Me Sleep when I first got into PJ (mid-1999) but first listen, I was hooked. Maybe others did too last night? - or at the least, loved it at the time.
1) Maybe you are underestimating casual fans?
2) Maybe you aren't underestimating them but they still enjoyed the show?
3) I don't really care if they weren't thrilled with hearing all of Binaural, the rest of us loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drunk casual fan - keeps yelling for SOLAT, yells at the band when they haven't played a faster/louder/heavier song for 2 songs, complains about everything, gets his SOLAT in the second encore and can't remember anything past the first line. (the guy beside me)
Two different perspectives.
(PS behind me: the evenbro. My beer-covered Foo Fighters sweater has been retired.)
2020 - Toronto, Hamilton
#evenbro
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
LOOKING FOR A SINGLE TICKET TO MSG NIGHT 2
Also at Philly 2 someone said "wow they played an awful lot of songs off Ten tonight"
the lesson as always is that people are idiots
the band should do what they want