Question For Muslims

HughFreakingDillon

*I wasn't sure where to post this, but I'm hoping this might be an ok place. If it turns into a shit show, I'll have the mods shut it down*

one of my 9 year old daughter's best friends is Muslim. I suspect so, anyway, based on her name, and how they don't celebrate birthdays and such (all invites she gets to birthday parties either get ignored or they are busy "visiting their aunt"). I don't know much about the faith, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, I'm trying to help my daughter out. Her friend lives basically right next door to us, but her parents seem unwilling to let them play together outside of school. is there a reason for this? My wife went over there one day to introduce herself, and the husband was very standoffish, he answered the door and walked away without saying a word, but the mother was very nice. So we thought that it went well and she'd be allowed to hang out. I've seen this girl outside with her siblings, but when my daughter calls her friend, she is never allowed to play.

Any insight on anything I can do would be great.

hedonist

badbrains' perspective would've been interesting and likely helpful.

Is the mother approachable enough for you or your wife to ask them about this directly? Seems like a great opportunity for both girls to not only play together but maybe learn something about each other's cultures in the process.

PJ_Soul

I know you aren't asking me, since I'm not Muslim, and hopefully there are some here who can help you out (not many Muslims on the boards as far as I can tell though). But based on the behaviour of Muslims I have or do know, I've never witnessed this kind of thing. Sounds like they are weirdos. Perhaps fanatical in some way. Muslim or otherwise, religious fanatics usually act pretty odd, tend to be isolationists, and sometimes they are indeed racist/xenophobic. Perhaps that it happening here. If they don't celebrate birthdays they are likely pretty hard core Muslims (many moderate Muslims do celebrate them, or at least attend the birthday parties of others), but if they won't even let their kids play with non-Muslims they are beyond hard core. They've crossed over into the religious nut-job zone IMHO.
Or maybe they have someone locked up in the basement and are worried about outsiders discovering it. Who knows. People act weird for all kinds of reasons. The fact that they're Muslim may not have anything to do with it (I know you know this already obviously).
That it too bad for your daughter and theirs though, whatever the explanation.

HughFreakingDillon

they came to Winnipeg only a couple years ago, so I don't know if they are nutjobs, but maybe just highly ensconced in the culture of their homeland, as any of us would be. the muslims you know, pjsoul, are they new to canada?

the thing is, in answer to hedo's question, we share a back lane, so we don't see the parents at all. ever. and I'm not sure if their culture allows me to just show up unannounced and speak to the wife, or if the husband acted the way he did towards my wife for a similar reason; I don't know. that's what I'm trying to figure out. I know badbrains is gone, but I thought there were a few other muslims on here whose brains I could pick on the subject.

HughFreakingDillon

and if they were fanatical, why enroll your children in a public school in a predominantly anglo neighbourhood? that would seem odd, wouldn't it?

mickeyrat

nationality?

Who Princess

mickeyrat said:

nationality?

This is probably more important than their religion. I've known a great many Muslims and I haven't observed this kind of behavior. There are many kinds of Muslims, just as there are many kinds of Christians.

This may be cultural, or the dad may just be a rude control freak. I wouldn't necessarily assume it has to do with their religion. You said you're assuming that they're Muslim?

HughFreakingDillon

Who Princess said:

mickeyrat said:

nationality?

This is probably more important than their religion. I've known a great many Muslims and I haven't observed this kind of behavior. There are many kinds of Muslims, just as there are many kinds of Christians.

This may be cultural, or the dad may just be a rude control freak. I wouldn't necessarily assume it has to do with their religion. You said you're assuming that they're Muslim?

yes, I am, but again, I could be way off base. it is based entirely on the two bits of info I know; no birthdays, and the daughter's first name.

I know my daughter told me their nationality, but at this moment it escapes me.

Who Princess

Does the mom wear a hijab?
After all, no birthdays could also mean Jehovah's Witnesses.

Who Princess

There are also non-Muslim countries where birthdays aren't celebrated.

HughFreakingDillon

k, well it is clear I'm not very worldly. LOL

mickeyrat

but you asked. good shit right there.
curious is your daughter of an age to ask her friend directly?

hedonist

Nice job, mickey!

*edit - and BB.

Free

I've known a couple Muslims by aquaintance, they were OK. So I am no help. But I did see this recently.

Islamophobia hurts people who aren't Muslim, too. The Daily Show takes a look.

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/26/11512948/daily-show-sikhs-muslims-islamophobia

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

they came to Winnipeg only a couple years ago, so I don't know if they are nutjobs, but maybe just highly ensconced in the culture of their homeland, as any of us would be. the muslims you know, pjsoul, are they new to canada?

the thing is, in answer to hedo's question, we share a back lane, so we don't see the parents at all. ever. and I'm not sure if their culture allows me to just show up unannounced and speak to the wife, or if the husband acted the way he did towards my wife for a similar reason; I don't know. that's what I'm trying to figure out. I know badbrains is gone, but I thought there were a few other muslims on here whose brains I could pick on the subject.

I've know Muslims who were new to Canada, and those who weren't. Their behaviour in this context really didn't differ. They acted like normal people who aren't rude to their neighbors and who would be happy to have their kid play with another kid who lives across the street. I have generally found that people who are new to Canada - whatever the culture - are generally friendly, not isolationists. I have, however, known people (non-Muslims) who are very anti-social. This is why I think these folks might just be weird people, regardless of their religion or culture. Or, again, someone's tied up in the basement.

I don't feel like there is a shit storm surrounding Muslims in Canada btw. In the US, sure, but I feel like Muslims are pretty well received in Canada (despite what you see trolls say on facebook). Maybe there is some shit going down in Winnipeg that I don't know about.

lukin2006

HughFreakingDillon said:

*I wasn't sure where to post this, but I'm hoping this might be an ok place. If it turns into a shit show, I'll have the mods shut it down*

one of my 9 year old daughter's best friends is Muslim. I suspect so, anyway, based on her name, and how they don't celebrate birthdays and such (all invites she gets to birthday parties either get ignored or they are busy "visiting their aunt"). I don't know much about the faith, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, I'm trying to help my daughter out. Her friend lives basically right next door to us, but her parents seem unwilling to let them play together outside of school. is there a reason for this? My wife went over there one day to introduce herself, and the husband was very standoffish, he answered the door and walked away without saying a word, but the mother was very nice. So we thought that it went well and she'd be allowed to hang out. I've seen this girl outside with her siblings, but when my daughter calls her friend, she is never allowed to play.

Any insight on anything I can do would be great.

Sounds like maybe Jehovah, had a couple in the neiborhood growing ... Very similar experience.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

*I wasn't sure where to post this, but I'm hoping this might be an ok place. If it turns into a shit show, I'll have the mods shut it down*

one of my 9 year old daughter's best friends is Muslim. I suspect so, anyway, based on her name, and how they don't celebrate birthdays and such (all invites she gets to birthday parties either get ignored or they are busy "visiting their aunt"). I don't know much about the faith, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, I'm trying to help my daughter out. Her friend lives basically right next door to us, but her parents seem unwilling to let them play together outside of school. is there a reason for this? My wife went over there one day to introduce herself, and the husband was very standoffish, he answered the door and walked away without saying a word, but the mother was very nice. So we thought that it went well and she'd be allowed to hang out. I've seen this girl outside with her siblings, but when my daughter calls her friend, she is never allowed to play.

Any insight on anything I can do would be great.

Sounds like maybe Jehovah, had a couple in the neiborhood growing ... Very similar experience.

Yes, that I agree with. I don't know any strange, isolated Muslims, but I've know several strange, isolated JoHos. In fact, there is one right down the hall from me right now. She locks herself in her windowless office all day, door shut, and she actually has the door kind of sealed on the inside, kind of like someone might do to protect themselves from nuclear fallout. The only time she comes out of her office is to use the washroom or for meetings she is forced to go to, where she sits in a corner away from everyone sitting at the boardroom table. It's messed up.

HughFreakingDillon

I asked my daughter last night, and she said they are from Pakistan. She is not sure, however, if the parents are originally from there. To make another potentially stupid comment: I have never seen a Jehovah's witness that wasn't white. is this common?

mickeyrat

prince. the guy who converted him. the jacksons.

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

but you asked. good shit right there.
curious is your daughter of an age to ask her friend directly?

well, she is 9. her friend seems fairly open about her culture, but my daughter can be pretty shy asking questions of her friends from what I gather (she won't even phone them-she always tries to get me or my wife to call their parents). but she did say last night during our conversation about her friend's background that she would ask her about it today. so we'll see.

HughFreakingDillon

I would just hate for a family in my neighbourhood to feel like they have to isolate themselves because of their culture. but I also don't want to be overbearing or offensive in any way. hard to know. I guess all i can do is talk to them. LOL.

callen

HughFreakingDillon said:

I would just hate for a family in my neighbourhood to feel like they have to isolate themselves because of their culture. but I also don't want to be overbearing or offensive in any way. hard to know. I guess all i can do is talk to them. LOL.

Think of it from their perspective and be pleasant. Same with your daughter.

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

I would just hate for a family in my neighbourhood to feel like they have to isolate themselves because of their culture. but I also don't want to be overbearing or offensive in any way. hard to know. I guess all i can do is talk to them. LOL.

Go over and be friendly and ONLY when the male is home.

Who Princess

My husband's brother and his family (wife, 2 kids) are Jehovah's Witnesses. I've been to a few events at their Kingdom Hall (high school graduation parties, niece's wedding) and their congregation is very diverse.

When I'm around my BIL and SIL, I forget that they're Witnesses because, I hate to put it this way, but they are just regular people. They are very tolerant of other religions, like rock 'n' roll, have a great sense of humor, etc. Their beliefs rarely come up. I don't believe the things they believe but they've never tried to impose anything on me. My only objection is that my niece and nephew don't stay in touch very much, and that seems to be part of their religion--you are friendly with your non-JW relatives or co-workers but don't spend too much time with them. My husband's sister and I have had discussions about this. It bothers her more than me because they live near her. But we're kind of resigned that that's their belief.

HFD, if your neighbors are Pakistani, they might be Muslim but not necessarily. They may be Baha'i or another religion. They may not be particularly religious. I've known and/or worked with probably 200-300 Muslims. A few of them were very religious, some not at all, some just observant of the big things--kind of like Christians who only go to church Christmas and Easter.

callen

I have neighbors I avoid. Maybe it's you!!!!!

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I would just hate for a family in my neighbourhood to feel like they have to isolate themselves because of their culture. but I also don't want to be overbearing or offensive in any way. hard to know. I guess all i can do is talk to them. LOL.

Go over and be friendly and ONLY when the male is home.

the problem is, I don't know when he's home. we share a back lane, so I would have no idea if he was or not.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Whenever you see them... smile, wave, engage in discussion if discussion presents itself.

If their kid is unavailable to play for whatever reason... your daughter should play with another kid.

Don't overthink things here. They're just your neighbours.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Whenever you see them... smile, wave, engage in discussion if discussion presents itself.

If their kid is unavailable to play for whatever reason... your daughter should play with another kid.

Don't overthink things here. They're just your neighbours.

I'm not overthinking things. it's just a shame to have one of her best friends a few houses away and she can't see her. it's just weird. I'm just trying to engage in a discussion on how I can best approach a possible cultural divide. that's all.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

I asked my daughter last night, and she said they are from Pakistan. She is not sure, however, if the parents are originally from there. To make another potentially stupid comment: I have never seen a Jehovah's witness that wasn't white. is this common?

The one I mentioned is Korean.

PJ_Soul

callen said:

I have neighbors I avoid. Maybe it's you!!!!!

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Whenever you see them... smile, wave, engage in discussion if discussion presents itself.

If their kid is unavailable to play for whatever reason... your daughter should play with another kid.

Don't overthink things here. They're just your neighbours.

I'm not overthinking things. it's just a shame to have one of her best friends a few houses away and she can't see her. it's just weird. I'm just trying to engage in a discussion on how I can best approach a possible cultural divide. that's all.

Yeah, I don't think there is such a thing as overthinking why your daughter apparently isn't allowed to play with one of her best friends..... Have you considered simply going over there and asking them why it seems like their kid isn't allowed to play with your daughter? What's the worst that could happen? They already don't allow it to happen, and there isn't anything else they can "threaten". Maybe there is some misunderstanding.... Maybe they heard a nasty rumour about you, lol, or they have some other odd reasoning behind it that you can perhaps clear up. I mean, I doubt it, but you never know! Sometimes weird shit happens!