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PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
edited July 2016 in A Moving Train
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Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,682
    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    :rofl:

    I haven't had any bong hits today so I'm not sure I'm following this thread correctly but I will throw this noodle at the fridge and see if it sticks: what about Native American religion that is based on real things that are metaphors like the earth being a turtle? That doesn't seem very super natural to me.

    OK, did it stick or slide to the floor?
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I agree that religion is belief in the supernatural, but that sort of boils down into an argument of semantics...arguments I love to have lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,975
    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    I was wondering if I had missed something. this is like stream of consciousness, but missing the first half of the stream.

    LOL
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,090
    edited April 2016
    Ditch the religious connection. The supernatural is altogether something else. No need to bring religion into it at all IMO. I do not at all think that religion and the supernatural are the same thing, semantics or not.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,682
    PJ_Soul said:

    Ditch the religious connection. The supernatural is altogether something else. No need to bring religion into it at all IMO. I do not at all think that religion and the supernatural are the same thing, semantics or not.

    That's a good point and one that will get debated/argued for and against here strongly.

    Now will somebody please explain in simple language what this thread is really about? Bong hit induced otherworldly events is what I've got so far.
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,492
    Could it be about Flat Earth theory..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2016
    Find it fascinating that when ever religion is brought up humans get irrational in responding. Even on a board sponsored by a band openly critical of religion those that speak against it are shunned like leapers.
    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    Put down the bong for week and reread rather than attack poster that had some great thoughts. Poster started it as saying "this is my opinion" and then shared thoughts. Posts like this add to the boards enjoyment. Yours not so much.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    callen said:

    Find it fascinating that when ever religion is brought up humans get intestinal in responding. Even on a board sponsored by a band openly critical of religion those that speak against it are shunned like leapers.

    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    Put down the bong for week and reread rather than attack poster that had some great thoughts. Poster started it as saying "this is my opinion" and then shared thoughts. Posts like this add to the boards enjoyment. Yours not so much.
    Oh callen. Thank you for the kind words, as always.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2016
    Oh and please use full name "Zombie Jesus". :)
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,975
    callen said:

    Find it fascinating that when ever religion is brought up humans get irrational in responding. Even on a board sponsored by a band openly critical of religion those that speak against it are shunned like leapers.

    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    Put down the bong for week and reread rather than attack poster that had some great thoughts. Poster started it as saying "this is my opinion" and then shared thoughts. Posts like this add to the boards enjoyment. Yours not so much.
    the OP made zero sense to me either, callen.
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • amethgr8amethgr8 Posts: 766
    the relationship between a humans emotions and compassion and whether or not they are religious. down need religion to tell us to be good to our neighbor or to set a moral standard otherwise? not really sure of the exact point but that is my educated guess.

    I base my apple pie on my grandmothers and possibly her grandmothers recipe and isn't that basing my belief on tradition which in your opinion is not a good reason. but when the pie comes out delicious, then that is physical evidence? but I took the chance on the tradition. maybe that is not apples to apples, idk. I love theological discussions though. I think it's a balance between what you can see, feel and smell. But also what we try to interpret, our gut feelings or intuition.
    Amy The Great #74594
    New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
    Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
    08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
    Champaign IL 4/23/03
    Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
    Grand Rapids MI 19May06
    Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
    PJ 20 2011
    Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
    St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
    Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
    Missoula MT 2018
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    The word "supernatural" throws me. Perhaps if it were replaced with the word "spiritual"...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    callen said:

    Find it fascinating that when ever religion is brought up humans get irrational in responding. Even on a board sponsored by a band openly critical of religion those that speak against it are shunned like leapers.

    hedonist said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Opinion -
    On Sympathy, Empathy, everybody has felt deep grief at the sight or the thought of a suffering individual or even another species. That does seem to be something in humanity, to feel empathy with suffering and as a Darwinian I can offer explanations for that but I won't do it now because there is not enough characters allowed to type.
    It is a travesty that it has somehow become widely accepted that if you throw out religion you throw out The Good Samaritan, the weeping at Shakespeare or at a Schubert Quartet. It has nothing to do with religion in the sense of the supernatural, of course you can redefine religion as covering all these emotional artistic aspects. In that case there is no contest but that is confusing and we need to define religion as a belief in something supernatural. You get your beliefs not from evidence but from faith, revelation, tradition, scripture and authority. All these are bad reasons to believe anything. Evidence is the only reason to believe something.
    We are all in life together and are all capable of the same kinds of good emotions/actions whether we are religious or not. We can't give religion credit for the good things in humanity they are a part of humanity along with the bad whether you are religious or not.

    Jesus, I make more sense than this after two bong hits.
    Put down the bong for week and reread rather than attack poster that had some great thoughts. Poster started it as saying "this is my opinion" and then shared thoughts. Posts like this add to the boards enjoyment. Yours not so much.
    the OP made zero sense to me either, callen.
    +1
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,459
    amethgr8 said:

    the relationship between a humans emotions and compassion and whether or not they are religious. down need religion to tell us to be good to our neighbor or to set a moral standard otherwise? not really sure of the exact point but that is my educated guess.

    I base my apple pie on my grandmothers and possibly her grandmothers recipe and isn't that basing my belief on tradition which in your opinion is not a good reason. but when the pie comes out delicious, then that is physical evidence? but I took the chance on the tradition. maybe that is not apples to apples, idk. I love theological discussions though. I think it's a balance between what you can see, feel and smell. But also what we try to interpret, our gut feelings or intuition.

    no. your is apples to apple pie.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • inmyNCinmyNC amongst many Posts: 243
    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Nice post, inmyNC, but I'd say just look at many animals - their capacity to love (not only us but each other as well) is as strong as ours. Undeniable to me.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,682
    inmyNC said:

    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...

    I like this too. I agree that whatever is beyond the knowing, what ever it is that gives humans a conscience, whatever it is that set all this in motion may one day be explainable (through science) but I hope it is not. My wish is that humans would learn to accept that those things are mysterious and marvelous and don't need to be defined by some made up story about a god.

    One of my favorite books is The Lost Gospel of the Earth by Tome Hayden. It is a call to focus our beliefs on what nature shows us and, without being preachy about it, he illustrates how closely Native American spirituality reflects what is in nature more so than most other religions. If we made nature our focus and learned to live within the laws of nature and ecology we would be much healthier and more content.
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • inmyNCinmyNC amongst many Posts: 243
    hedonist said:

    Nice post, inmyNC, but I'd say just look at many animals - their capacity to love (not only us but each other as well) is as strong as ours. Undeniable to me.

    You may be right. I'm no specialist on animal behavior.. Is it love or instinct for them to bond? Totally unsure.. I'd love to think my long gone chocolate lab loved me !!
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,975
    hedonist said:

    Nice post, inmyNC, but I'd say just look at many animals - their capacity to love (not only us but each other as well) is as strong as ours. Undeniable to me.

    yeah, I agree with this. when you see the happiness/sorrow of an animal with a newborn/dead relative, you know they feel emotions like love for sure.
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,090
    Free said:

    The word "supernatural" throws me. Perhaps if it were replaced with the word "spiritual"...

    That is a completely different topic altogether.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • inmyNCinmyNC amongst many Posts: 243
    brianlux said:

    inmyNC said:

    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...

    I like this too. I agree that whatever is beyond the knowing, what ever it is that gives humans a conscience, whatever it is that set all this in motion may one day be explainable (through science) but I hope it is not. My wish is that humans would learn to accept that those things are mysterious and marvelous and don't need to be defined by some made up story about a god.

    One of my favorite books is The Lost Gospel of the Earth by Tome Hayden. It is a call to focus our beliefs on what nature shows us and, without being preachy about it, he illustrates how closely Native American spirituality reflects what is in nature more so than most other religions. If we made nature our focus and learned to live within the laws of nature and ecology we would be much healthier and more content.
    Have not heard of that book but I'm interested in reading it. Thanks for mentioning it.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,682
    inmyNC said:

    brianlux said:

    inmyNC said:

    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...

    I like this too. I agree that whatever is beyond the knowing, what ever it is that gives humans a conscience, whatever it is that set all this in motion may one day be explainable (through science) but I hope it is not. My wish is that humans would learn to accept that those things are mysterious and marvelous and don't need to be defined by some made up story about a god.

    One of my favorite books is The Lost Gospel of the Earth by Tome Hayden. It is a call to focus our beliefs on what nature shows us and, without being preachy about it, he illustrates how closely Native American spirituality reflects what is in nature more so than most other religions. If we made nature our focus and learned to live within the laws of nature and ecology we would be much healthier and more content.
    Have not heard of that book but I'm interested in reading it. Thanks for mentioning it.
    It's great and there's a 2006 updated version. My guess is you would like it a lot.

    I met Hayden many years ago and then just last year ran into him in an elevator in the capitol building in Sacramento. I said "Hi," and his aides (he is now in a wheel chair as a result of a stroke) kind of tried to shield him from me. When I said, "I love your book," he looked up and said, "Oh, thanks!". Really a cool guy. Currently is the director of the Peace and Justice Resource Center in Culver City, CA.
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    inmyNC said:

    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...

    Believe in the universe inmyNC. From what you write, you are just beginning to wake up to conciousness. Everything is energy. We are all connected. ;)
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    brianlux said:

    inmyNC said:

    An point of view...................................... All things natural are perfect. The way a maple seed helicopters away from its host tree. The way pollination happens with the instinctive cooperation of bees. All these things are perfect. The things that are imperfect are humans and all we create. We are given emotions and the strongest of which is love. No other living thing on earth has that gift. Our buildings are square yet nothing in nature is square. We destroy our earth, but in time nature does in fact take back. That said we humans are different then everything else that exist. Does that not make us special? Why is this so? Well, I'm not sure. I tend to believe there's something higher then what we can see. Is it god? Again, I'm unsure .. Truth is I don't think we are supposed to know. I find organized religion to somewhat pretentious. At least that is how I would feel if I were involved with a certain religion. I don't think of those whom are devoted to there religions are wrong in there beliefs because its their belief. Its their heart and mind which are two very natural things. You don't have to except any theology in order to be moral or to love...

    I like this too. I agree that whatever is beyond the knowing, what ever it is that gives humans a conscience, whatever it is that set all this in motion may one day be explainable (through science) but I hope it is not. My wish is that humans would learn to accept that those things are mysterious and marvelous and don't need to be defined by some made up story about a god.

    One of my favorite books is The Lost Gospel of the Earth by Tome Hayden. It is a call to focus our beliefs on what nature shows us and, without being preachy about it, he illustrates how closely Native American spirituality reflects what is in nature more so than most other religions. If we made nature our focus and learned to live within the laws of nature and ecology we would be much healthier and more content.
    That book sounds interesting.
  • amethgr8amethgr8 Posts: 766
    I think humans are (mostly) perfect as we are a product of nature and back in caveman days, very much part of the Eco system. Social conditioning among other influences, good and bad, results in humans that have trouble accepting ourselves as part of nature and not the king of it.

    I agree we don't need religion to be good to others.

    The same matter that makes a star in the sky makes human beings.
    Amy The Great #74594
    New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
    Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
    08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
    Champaign IL 4/23/03
    Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
    Grand Rapids MI 19May06
    Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
    PJ 20 2011
    Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
    St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
    Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
    Missoula MT 2018
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,687
    Ready for a post that's likely as confusing and nonsensical as the OP's? Spark up those bowls, folks, lol.

    For awhile now, I've been differentiating between religion and faith, as a non-religious (or non-practising) Christian.

    Religion is the store front to get new people to buy into a given dogma or philosophy, which would presumably lead them to faith, what the OP's calling belief in the supernatural.

    My understanding's been that most faiths developed as a means to explain natural (and unnatural) occurrences, leading to the development of religions as a means to ensure the survival of the most members of a given tribe (hence dietary restrictions and the like).

    Also, just because I worship one deity, it doesn't mean I disregard other belief systems, or acknowledge that, in the end, other faiths might be the "right one." I've also seen nothing in science that utterly precludes the possibilities of anything supernatural. We're still in the infancy of our understanding of the universe (if we're even yet out of the womb in that sense).

    As I see it, most now worship at the altar of Science, though the vast majority have never (and likely will never) see an atom or a molecule.

    In a recent discussion with my brother and sister-in-law, she refused to see the Bible as anything but a book written by men, while I, as a believer, see it as a holy book, often with God's own words spoken (mistranslations over the millennia notwithstanding, obviously). In the end, we had to disagree, in part because, since she doesn't believe in a god, she seemingly couldn't wrap her head around my point of view.

    Interestingly, my pshrink recently suggested to me (he's an admittedly born-again Judaic(?)) that with fewer people getting spiritual satisfaction through religion and faith, causes such as the environment and social justice have filled that role, along with political beliefs. I would suggest the OP "worships" Darwinian theory as much as I claim Christianity as my core belief system. I think this might help explain why many debates and discussions seem to end in agreement to disagree.

    Just another fool's point of view, lol.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,682
    Ahhh! Purity of spirit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dk-obVk9SE
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • inmyNCinmyNC amongst many Posts: 243
    DarthMaeglin said:

    Ready for a post that's likely as confusing and nonsensical as the OP's? Spark up those bowls, folks, lol.

    For awhile now, I've been differentiating between religion and faith, as a non-religious (or non-practising) Christian.

    Religion is the store front to get new people to buy into a given dogma or philosophy, which would presumably lead them to faith, what the OP's calling belief in the supernatural.

    My understanding's been that most faiths developed as a means to explain natural (and unnatural) occurrences, leading to the development of religions as a means to ensure the survival of the most members of a given tribe (hence dietary restrictions and the like).

    Also, just because I worship one deity, it doesn't mean I disregard other belief systems, or acknowledge that, in the end, other faiths might be the "right one." I've also seen nothing in science that utterly precludes the possibilities of anything supernatural. We're still in the infancy of our understanding of the universe (if we're even yet out of the womb in that sense).

    As I see it, most now worship at the altar of Science, though the vast majority have never (and likely will never) see an atom or a molecule.

    In a recent discussion with my brother and sister-in-law, she refused to see the Bible as anything but a book written by men, while I, as a believer, see it as a holy book, often with God's own words spoken (mistranslations over the millennia notwithstanding, obviously). In the end, we had to disagree, in part because, since she doesn't believe in a god, she seemingly couldn't wrap her head around my point of view.

    Interestingly, my pshrink recently suggested to me (he's an admittedly born-again Judaic(?)) that with fewer people getting spiritual satisfaction through religion and faith, causes such as the environment and social justice have filled that role, along with political beliefs. I would suggest the OP "worships" Darwinian theory as much as I claim Christianity as my core belief system. I think this might help explain why many debates and discussions seem to end in agreement to disagree.

    Just another fool's point of view, lol.

    Nothing foolish about your point of view. Once I heard , can't remember where or when, someone answer a question on why they chose Christianity , and their answer was " Cause it makes me feel good".... I thought how simplistic yet real. Whomever said that gave the best answer I think one could give.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    hello
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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