They've opened Pandora's box

Hoccapuk

Cancel Raleigh where will end? And what does that say when you cancel one show but injustice is everywhere in every city, state and country. People are bringing up Lexington and Chicago and Louisiana among others. How can the band take a stand in one area but not in others? Believe me, I don't want them to cancel other shows but they're setting a bad precedent by canceling

tinz.

You are dead wrong. This is not a money hungry pop group.. They are standing up and making their voices heard, trying to make a difference as they always have. As frustrating as it is for fans that had tickets to this show, we have to see the bigger picture here.. And human rights are more important. Good for these guys to make this difficult decision..

LetsGoMteers

tinz. said:

You are dead wrong. This is not a money hungry pop group.. They are standing up and making their voices heard, trying to make a difference as they always have. As frustrating as it is for fans that had tickets to this show, we have to see the bigger picture here.. And human rights are more important. Good for these guys to make this difficult decision..

Agree but these issues exist in every city they play in

Tim Simmons

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

Mike D88

Lots of default Vanilla icons on here today.

Tim Simmons

Cancelling a concert isn't gonna stop gun violence in Chicago. cancelling a concert and adding attention to an issue can make people mad about discrimination can change governments minds. Some stuff is easier to change than other. And they think it can help here.

bootlegger10

tinz. said:

You are dead wrong. This is not a money hungry pop group.. They are standing up and making their voices heard, trying to make a difference as they always have. As frustrating as it is for fans that had tickets to this show, we have to see the bigger picture here.. And human rights are more important. Good for these guys to make this difficult decision..

Too bad their voice came from being a band that plays concerts. Retire and become politicians or play concerts. Pick one PJ!

Tim Simmons

Because politics and music has never been intertwined. Ever.

hrd2imgn

Take a stand though your music, not your silence.

Ledbetterman10

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

AmishGuy91

Ledbetterman10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

Riding Bruce's coattails....

ComeToTX

Did Ed mention anti lgbt laws that exist in FL at any of those 4 shows?

Pixeltender

Ledbetterman10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

you're just frustrated. the value of this sort of momentum is undeniable
"Event cancellations due to HB2 quadruple economic losses"

Ledbetterman10

Pixeltender said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

you're just frustrated. the value of this sort of momentum is undeniable
"Event cancellations due to HB2 quadruple economic losses"

I'm not frustrated at all. I wasn't planning on attending the NC show. But I feel if Bruce Springsteen doesn't cancel, then they don't. That's following.

They're good at leading musically (i.e. beginning the trend of bands releasing every live show). Gotta give them that.

Pixeltender

Ledbetterman10 said:

Pixeltender said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

you're just frustrated. the value of this sort of momentum is undeniable
"Event cancellations due to HB2 quadruple economic losses"

I'm not frustrated at all. I wasn't planning on attending the NC show. But I feel if Bruce Springsteen doesn't cancel, then they don't. That's following.

They're good at leading musically (i.e. beginning the trend of bands releasing every live show). Gotta give them that.

So then you understand the value of what they're doing, and would understand that it's not following, it's solidarity.

serpent boy

If Pearl Jam is going to cancel a show to protest unfair treatment of the LGBTQA community, they should go all out and cancel in other states where similar inequalities exist. NC is far from the worst offender.

I HOPE for all the fans sake that they don't cancel any other shows, but if they're going to stand up for an issue, make it consistent and make your voices REALLY heard.

JaneNY

serpent boy said:

If Pearl Jam is going to cancel a show to protest unfair treatment of the LGBTQA community, they should go all out and cancel in other states where similar inequalities exist. NC is far from the worst offender.

Which one is the worst offender, would you say?

Who knows, maybe they will cancel other shows. I'd be disappointed of course if it was one of mine, but I would understand. Maybe if everyone makes a little more effort we can stamp out this sort of discrimination and then PJ won't want or feel the need to cancel shows to get peoples' attention. it is easy to sit back and not like things - it is harder to take more action, and I'm sure PJ is hoping that this disappointment will spur people to be a little more active in some way.

walkunafraid

Ledbetterman10 said:

Pixeltender said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

true, but there is a wave of momentum in getting these Anti-LGBT bills changed or veto'd. It's easier to add to the momentum than trying to start new movements.

In other words, it's easier to be followers than leaders.

you're just frustrated. the value of this sort of momentum is undeniable
"Event cancellations due to HB2 quadruple economic losses"

I'm not frustrated at all. I wasn't planning on attending the NC show. But I feel if Bruce Springsteen doesn't cancel, then they don't. That's following.

They're good at leading musically (i.e. beginning the trend of bands releasing every live show). Gotta give them that.

I would say a boycott, by definition, requires following. I don't think any boycott has ever been successful anywhere without hordes of people "following" the instigators.

Hoccapuk

serpent boy said:

I think it does punish North Carolinians.

Pitchfork op-ed on the harm this does:
http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1106-op-ed-north-carolinas-transgender-fight-needs-musicians-to-show-up/

ComeToTX

JaneNY said:

serpent boy said:

If Pearl Jam is going to cancel a show to protest unfair treatment of the LGBTQA community, they should go all out and cancel in other states where similar inequalities exist. NC is far from the worst offender.

Which one is the worst offender, would you say?

Who knows, maybe they will cancel other shows. I'd be disappointed of course if it was one of mine, but I would understand. Maybe if everyone makes a little more effort we can stamp out this sort of discrimination and then PJ won't want or feel the need to cancel shows to get peoples' attention. it is easy to sit back and not like things - it is harder to take more action, and I'm sure PJ is hoping that this disappointment will spur people to be a little more active in some way.

Florida has pretty bad lgbt laws and they had no problem playing there on this tour. Neither did Bruce.

scornlander

Eddie's comments last night that "we just couldn't find it in ourselves in good conscience to cross a picket line" makes it even more obvious that they are just following Bruce's lead. If Bruce didn't cancel PJ would not have cancelled either.

ComeToTX

I guess Buffett, Against Me!, Mumford and Sons, Cydi Lauper, Louie CK and many others crossed that picket line. That comment annoys me. Am I crossing a picket line by traveling to Raleigh tomorrow because they didn't give me enough time to change my flight?

LetsGoMteers

scornlander said:

Eddie's comments last night that "we just couldn't find it in ourselves in good conscience to cross a picket line" makes it even more obvious that they are just following Bruce's lead. If Bruce didn't cancel PJ would not have cancelled either.

I pretty much agree with you

Ledbetterman10

ComeToTX said:

JaneNY said:

serpent boy said:

If Pearl Jam is going to cancel a show to protest unfair treatment of the LGBTQA community, they should go all out and cancel in other states where similar inequalities exist. NC is far from the worst offender.

Which one is the worst offender, would you say?

Who knows, maybe they will cancel other shows. I'd be disappointed of course if it was one of mine, but I would understand. Maybe if everyone makes a little more effort we can stamp out this sort of discrimination and then PJ won't want or feel the need to cancel shows to get peoples' attention. it is easy to sit back and not like things - it is harder to take more action, and I'm sure PJ is hoping that this disappointment will spur people to be a little more active in some way.

Florida has pretty bad lgbt laws and they had no problem playing there on this tour. Neither did Bruce.

Florida's laws aren't trending right now.

cp3iverson

I guess its kind of like us. We pick and choose when we take a stand. I still grocery shop at target and walmart vs the local place because it saves me a ton of $$. I wear Nikes despite the sweatshops. Etc.

Not an easy situation either way. I see everyones point.

choop

Links to Florida's "bad" LGBT laws? Because I keep seeing that posted and it sounds like a repeated talking point with no basis in reality. I'll apologize when someone drops a link that shows Florida has state mandated discrimination on the books. Thanks.

tempo_n_groove

Tim Simmons said:

Because politics and music has never been intertwined. Ever.

I think Pete Seger said that?

ComeToTX

choop said:

Links to Florida's "bad" LGBT laws? Because I keep seeing that posted and it sounds like a repeated talking point with no basis in reality. I'll apologize when someone drops a link that shows Florida has state mandated discrimination on the books. Thanks.

Throughout most of Florida, it is legal to fire someone or deny them access to housing or public accommodations because they are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). While it is illegal to discriminate in employment, housing and public accommodations based race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, handicap or marital status, the LGBT community is currently left out of statewide non-discrimination protections.
http://www.eqfl.org/Discrimination

choop

ComeToTX said:

choop said:

Links to Florida's "bad" LGBT laws? Because I keep seeing that posted and it sounds like a repeated talking point with no basis in reality. I'll apologize when someone drops a link that shows Florida has state mandated discrimination on the books. Thanks.

Throughout most of Florida, it is legal to fire someone or deny them access to housing or public accommodations because they are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). While it is illegal to discriminate in employment, housing and public accommodations based race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, handicap or marital status, the LGBT community is currently left out of statewide non-discrimination protections.
http://www.eqfl.org/Discrimination

Did you even read the link you posted:
-Since 2004, Equality Florida has been working to pass a statewide bill that would include the LGBT community into current non-discrimination laws.
AND
-In fact, over 53% of Floridians live in a place that protects them from discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

So there has been progress in over half the state in 12 years. Not amazing, but not terrible, and not a step in the wrong direction like the NC law. This is a new law just added to the books. FL residents who have become activists have made tremendous progress updating the existing laws.

Much, much different animal here. There is no law in FL that blatantly discriminates like HB2.

jeffbr

ComeToTX said:

I guess Buffett, Against Me!, Mumford and Sons, Cydi Lauper, Louie CK and many others crossed that picket line. That comment annoys me. Am I crossing a picket line by traveling to Raleigh tomorrow because they didn't give me enough time to change my flight?

That picket line only exists in Ed's brain. There is no picket line. There are multiple, valid ways of fighting against this law as evidenced by the artists you mentioned. Ed did what he wanted (or what Bruce wanted him to do). It wasn't like the band had no other option. But regardless, the problem to me is less about the decision to cancel (which I ultimately support), and much more about how the timing fucked the fans. The haves fucked over the have nots once again.

walkunafraid

jeffbr said:

ComeToTX said:

I guess Buffett, Against Me!, Mumford and Sons, Cydi Lauper, Louie CK and many others crossed that picket line. That comment annoys me. Am I crossing a picket line by traveling to Raleigh tomorrow because they didn't give me enough time to change my flight?

That picket line only exists in Ed's brain. There is no picket line. There are multiple, valid ways of fighting against this law as evidenced by the artists you mentioned. Ed did what he wanted (or what Bruce wanted him to do). It wasn't like the band had no other option. But regardless, the problem to me is less about the decision to cancel (which I ultimately support), and much more about how the timing fucked the fans. The haves fucked over the have nots once again.

Here's a partial list of companies/artists besides Pearl Jam who have boycotted North Carolina so far:

Ringo Starr
Bryan Adams
Deutsche Bank
PayPal
Bruce Springsteen
Michael Moore
xHamster
Joel McHale
General Electric
the Dow Chemical Company
Pepsi
Hyatt
Hewlett Packard
Choice Hotels International
Whole Foods
Levis Strauss & Co.
Lionsgate
Boston
Cirque du Soleil

Sorry, but that's a picket line, and it's growing every day. Kudos to the band for understanding that the power to invoke change lies in numbers, and that a boycott only works if people/groups are willing to sacrifice and make unpopular decisions in order to achieve the end goal.