Polygamy and Sister Wives ?

Godfather.

I have never watched this show but after reading the story I was wondering what Train Members thought of this stuff, if a man has several wives is it any worse than a woman having several husbands ? and how do they not experience the normal human emotions like jealousy or pain when it's the next gal's turn to ride the only male in the house ? it just don't seem right to me.
then there's the legal aspects of it...different groups want to change the traditional law of marriage so now along with same sex marriages you can marry all the people you want, what messed up life some people tend to create for themselves but if they're happy with it so be it.


http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/04/11/sister-wives-handed-defeat-in-court-on-polygamy/?intcmp=hpff

Jason P

I once drove thru Colorado City, AZ. It's a polygamist Mormon colony right off the Utah border. It was very, very weird.

Godfather.

I've been thru there as well about 12 to 14 years ago....drove straight thru.

Godfather.

hedonist

GF, it's not my thing at all - I'm a one-man woman! - but the last part of your post nails it for me. If it works for them, great. I'm not sure how it may affect any children in the equation as I don't know too much about the lifestyle itself, beyond the bit to which I've been exposed.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

People born into it... brainwashed to believe that is the life one should live... lead that life.

They think it's normal. They can't see that it's messed up. Kinda like other people with other beliefs.

eddiec

My wife watches that show 'Sister Wives' sometimes so I've seen a few episodes.. Maybe they picked the most normal polygamist family possible but in their case the thing seems to work. It's not like the dude has some harem for the sake of banging hot women. He's deeply religious and a family man.

Drowned Out

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

People born into it... brainwashed to believe that is the life one should live... lead that life.

They think it's normal. They can't see that it's messed up. Kinda like other people with other beliefs.

You think? Story-specific, or in general? One could argue that monogamy is an unnatural and learned condition that people are born/brainwashed into just as easily.

This is def situational, and yes, it all comes down to consent and personal preference. Funny, you call it polygamy, with it’s religious/marital overtones, and it just freaks people right out….call it polyamory and while it still freaks a lot of people out, it is borderline trendy these days. Some people say marriage is the difference between polygamy and polyamory, but the definition of polygamy includes non-marital relationships….so I may be wrong, but I don’t see the difference.

I’ve been in a relationship for two years, but spent 7 years single and dating between this relationship and my failed marriage…while dating, I met quite a few people who identified as polyamorous…and have met even more while in this relationship. While I don’t know anyone who lives together as a poly group, I do know married couples who have ongoing relationships with other partners. I know other people who are just in open relationships – it is more a sexual thing than about love and commitment. Again, our desire to categorize and put things in a tidy box is part of the problem here. People do what works for them. The over-arching theme of people on the poly/open relationship side is that there is no ‘ownership’ or property in a relationship – these people don’t use the word ‘my’….no ‘my girl/man, my girlfriend/boyfriend, my wife/husband’ etc…they view each other as individuals with their own needs and desires, and are honest with each other about it.

Commitment doesn’t have to be monogamous. It’s not for everyone, but it does avoid a lot of the hypocrisy that society has in celebrating cheating to a degree, while condemning people who are open and honest with their spouses about what they want and what they do.
I don’t see how anyone can tell anyone else who to love, or who to share their bed with. I don’t think it’s our place to call any of this messed up, abnormal, brainwashed etc if it is not abusive or coerced.

callen

st

eddiec said:

My wife watches that show 'Sister Wives' sometimes so I've seen a few episodes.. Maybe they picked the most normal polygamist family possible but in their case the thing seems to work. It's not like the dude has some harem for the sake of banging hot women. He's deeply religious and a family man.

"Deeply religious family man". Oh boy. And promoting child abuse and religion to maintain control. Drop the religious foolishness and add women being treated as equals and see how this chap fares.

People should do whatever consenting adults want to do. For me, I cherish my relationship with my partner and completely immersed in our bond. Couldn't imagine adding another human.

PJ_Soul

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not necessarily worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point. I don't even know what a polygamist marriage with multiple husbands would look like. I have no basis of comparison. But let's face it. Even if the structure did place the woman as the head of the power structure as it is for men with multiple wives, it is just less offensive because men have not been the segment of society who have had to fight for equality (largely unsuccessfully) since the dawn of time.

Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....

But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get. At least their kids are exposed to more of the regular community than most kids would be in that situation, because of the show).

callen

Glad I got my post in before yours. Course being a male I used less words.


I kid hahahahaha.

Drowned Out

PJ_Soul said:

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point.
Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....
But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get).

What if it has nothing to do with religion? I would posit that there are probably more people in poly relationships who are not religious, than there are married polygamists (just googled...latest study says 5% of Americans live a poly lifestyle). Pretty sure I know your answer. Guess it depends on whether we're discussing this show (which I've never even heard of and would never waste a single breath watching), or poly relationships in general.

PJ_Soul

callen said:

Glad I got my post in before yours. Course being a male I used less words.


I kid hahahahaha.

Drowned Out

callen said:

Glad I got my post in before yours. Course being a male I used less words.


I kid hahahahaha.

What does this say about me?

callen

Drowned Out said:

callen said:

Glad I got my post in before yours. Course being a male I used less words.


I kid hahahahaha.

What does this say about me?

Okay so I'm really poking fun at myself. I grunt and snort. Wish I was a better writer. Is an art and you and PJS continue to elaborate. Great stuff.

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point.
Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....
But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get).

What if it has nothing to do with religion? I would posit that there are probably more people in poly relationships who are not religious, than there are married polygamists (just googled...latest study says 5% of Americans live a poly lifestyle). Pretty sure I know your answer. Guess it depends on whether we're discussing this show (which I've never even heard of and would never waste a single breath watching), or poly relationships in general.

As long as there is a power structure in the family where the man is the head, I am against it, religious or not. It's not them being religious that really bothers me (not that I'm a fan of religion, as I'm sure you know. And religion certainly plays a big role is coercing people into the practice). It's the sexism of the arrangement. As I said, I'm sure there are a small minority of exceptions, but generally, no. I am offended by the implications of polygamy. Not that my being offended should matter to anyone, obviously. That's just how I feel. Now if we're talking the legality of it.... that's pretty tricky. I think that as soon as children are in the picture it becomes very difficult, since you can no longer just say "as long as they are all consenting adults they can do what they want", which is, of course, true... unless they choose to get married. That's still illegal.

PJ_Soul

Interesting article here on the subject:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/case-against-polygamy/397823/

Drowned Out

PJ_Soul said:

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point.
Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....
But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get).

What if it has nothing to do with religion? I would posit that there are probably more people in poly relationships who are not religious, than there are married polygamists (just googled...latest study says 5% of Americans live a poly lifestyle). Pretty sure I know your answer. Guess it depends on whether we're discussing this show (which I've never even heard of and would never waste a single breath watching), or poly relationships in general.

As long as there is a power structure in the family where the man is the head, I am against it, religious or not. It's not them being religious that really bothers me (not that I'm a fan of religion, as I'm sure you know. And religion certainly plays a big role is coercing people into the practice). It's the sexism of the arrangement. As I said, I'm sure there are a small minority of exceptions, but generally, no. I am offended by the implications of polygamy. Not that my being offended should matter to anyone, obviously. That's just how I feel. Now if we're talking the legality of it.... that's pretty tricky. I think that as soon as children are in the picture it becomes very difficult, since you can no longer just say "as long as they are all consenting adults they can do what they want", which is, of course, true... unless they choose to get married. That's still illegal.

Gotcha. The people I know in this lifestyle live with complete equality. They are both free to have other gf's or bf's. I know one couple who have gf's but not bf's...the woman is bi and doesn't want to suppress that part of herself for the relationship, but feels like her emotional relationship needs are met by being with her male spouse...they only bring females into the relationship, but there is still no inequality or sexism involved as she is driving that aspect of their relationship as much as (or more than) her partner is.

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point.
Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....
But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get).

What if it has nothing to do with religion? I would posit that there are probably more people in poly relationships who are not religious, than there are married polygamists (just googled...latest study says 5% of Americans live a poly lifestyle). Pretty sure I know your answer. Guess it depends on whether we're discussing this show (which I've never even heard of and would never waste a single breath watching), or poly relationships in general.

As long as there is a power structure in the family where the man is the head, I am against it, religious or not. It's not them being religious that really bothers me (not that I'm a fan of religion, as I'm sure you know. And religion certainly plays a big role is coercing people into the practice). It's the sexism of the arrangement. As I said, I'm sure there are a small minority of exceptions, but generally, no. I am offended by the implications of polygamy. Not that my being offended should matter to anyone, obviously. That's just how I feel. Now if we're talking the legality of it.... that's pretty tricky. I think that as soon as children are in the picture it becomes very difficult, since you can no longer just say "as long as they are all consenting adults they can do what they want", which is, of course, true... unless they choose to get married. That's still illegal.

Gotcha. The people I know in this lifestyle live with complete equality. They are both free to have other gf's or bf's. I know one couple who have gf's but not bf's...the woman is bi and doesn't want to suppress that part of herself for the relationship, but feels like her emotional relationship needs are met by being with her male spouse...they only bring females into the relationship, but there is still no inequality or sexism involved as she is driving that aspect of their relationship as much as her partner is.

As far as you know anyway. Arrangements like that often go sideways after an amount of time, no matter how bad the people involved want it to work and try to convince themselves that it's working for them. The fact that the arrangement only goes one way (toward extra women) possibly makes it less stable ... But in any case, that actually just sounds like an open relationship, not a polygamous one. Open relationships aren't particularly well-known for reflecting wonderful stability in relationships as far as I know. That said, whatever turns their cranks.

Drowned Out

PJ_Soul said:

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

The problem is their children and those raised to do it. No, it's not worse than a wife with many husbands, but someone please show me a case where that is actually happening. I'm sure it might be somewhere or other, but we all know it would be extremely rare, so that is a rather moot point.
Polygamy is 99.99% a man with many wives, and in such arrangements, the man is necessarily the king of the castle, and they think that is the family structure that God demands, since it is almost always a religious practice. That's really the whole point behind it. Therefore, I find polygamy as it is usually practiced to be extremely unequal. And if there were just an uninfluenced choice of the women to put themselves into that subservient role, I don't respect that choice at all, but I would at least respect their right to choose it .....
But what about their children (and the ones who were raised to believe that is how it must be done because it's the way of the Lord)? These kids are raised in that environment, basically brainwashed through family and religion, and I don't feel like they are choosing to grow up and then oftentimes adopt this unequal power structure within the family and to accept that women have a subservient role. Those who don't want to follow in those footsteps often have a very hard (and in some cases dangerous time) extracting themselves from that lifestyle. For that reason, I am against polygamy for the most part. Add to that the issues of actual illegal activity that occurs in some polygamist societies, where I believe that polygamy very much contributes to the abuse of girls, and it makes it so much worse. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but if we look at the reality of polygamy, as it is usually practiced, it is a very archaic, fucked up religious arrangement that places women beneath men.

FWIW, I believe that Sister Wives is a show meant to try and convince people of some stuff that isn't actually very reflective of the real world. It is reality TV after all. No one should be watching that show and deciding that that is how it normally is in polygamist families (and frankly, I think that family comes off a pretty fucked up anyhow, and the husband is indeed the master, no matter how snotty his weird wives get).

What if it has nothing to do with religion? I would posit that there are probably more people in poly relationships who are not religious, than there are married polygamists (just googled...latest study says 5% of Americans live a poly lifestyle). Pretty sure I know your answer. Guess it depends on whether we're discussing this show (which I've never even heard of and would never waste a single breath watching), or poly relationships in general.

As long as there is a power structure in the family where the man is the head, I am against it, religious or not. It's not them being religious that really bothers me (not that I'm a fan of religion, as I'm sure you know. And religion certainly plays a big role is coercing people into the practice). It's the sexism of the arrangement. As I said, I'm sure there are a small minority of exceptions, but generally, no. I am offended by the implications of polygamy. Not that my being offended should matter to anyone, obviously. That's just how I feel. Now if we're talking the legality of it.... that's pretty tricky. I think that as soon as children are in the picture it becomes very difficult, since you can no longer just say "as long as they are all consenting adults they can do what they want", which is, of course, true... unless they choose to get married. That's still illegal.

Gotcha. The people I know in this lifestyle live with complete equality. They are both free to have other gf's or bf's. I know one couple who have gf's but not bf's...the woman is bi and doesn't want to suppress that part of herself for the relationship, but feels like her emotional relationship needs are met by being with her male spouse...they only bring females into the relationship, but there is still no inequality or sexism involved as she is driving that aspect of their relationship as much as her partner is.

As far as you know anyway. Arrangements like that often go sideways after an amount of time, no matter how bad the people involved want it to work ... But in any case, that actually just sounds like an open relationship, not a polygamous one.

What's the difference tho? That's what I was saying....is it just marriage? I've seen polygamy defined without the marriage aspect. (From wiki: Polygamy involves sexual activity with mutiple partners without or with marriage).
And we can say that these things go sideways but that is our perception of it. The poly couple I know have been doing this for well over half of their 20+ year marriage. Besides....over 50% of marriages 'go sideways' anyway...im sure a majority of those are associated with infidelity....which may have been prevented by consensual polyamory....
Again, not something we can clearly define and make black or white judgements about. It's an individual choice - as long as there is no coercion or abuse.

brianlux

Many wives/ one husband = many babies. Many husbands/ one wife = fewer babies. If people want to have multiple partners, I wish they would do the latter. Sure not my thing though!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Drowned...

When it is a choice made... I'm okay with it.

When it is indoctrinated and the alpha male sits atop the food chain... I have an issue with it. This situation begs reform.