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200 Nations sign on to Paris Climate Deal

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
in A Moving Train
I'm so used to these things falling short but it really looks like we might be heading in the right direction at last!
Maybe to early for this I have to do it: :triumph:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/12/paris-climate-deal-200-nations-sign-finish-fossil-fuel-era
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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Comments

  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    No, it's certainly not solved yet, for sure, and the work is anything but done but it's a big step in the right direction, especially because the goals are a lot stronger than was anticipated. For now, I'm feeling hopeful.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    ^^^ Yeah, that green gavel, Give me hit on that thing... I mean with that thing.

    Hell's bells, I know that things can get swept back under. It happened with the Whale hunting issues. Whaling was "outlawed" and everyone said "yay!" and went home. And the whales kept getting killed anyway until more aggressive action was (and still is) taken to reduce the loss of those bright, sensitive mammals.

    So let's hope the same holds true with climate. It's going to take some effort. It's not like, "Whoopie, the Green Hammer! We're saved!" It has to be more like, "Alright, well that's cool, but now lets start working or things ain't gonna happen."
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited December 2015
    .
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    The agreement has no compulsory targets. So basically it is just a piece of paper. Think how much CO2 was emitted just to produce this waste of time.
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    BS44325 said:

    The agreement has no compulsory targets. So basically it is just a piece of paper. Think how much CO2 was emitted just to produce this waste of time.

    I hope your wrong about this, but if past agreements tell us anything, you're probably right.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    dignin said:

    BS44325 said:

    The agreement has no compulsory targets. So basically it is just a piece of paper. Think how much CO2 was emitted just to produce this waste of time.

    I hope your wrong about this, but if past agreements tell us anything, you're probably right.
    I have been watching John Kerry on all the sunday shows this morning. He is pretty much confirming that it is an agreement of no weight. He is celebrating that 180 countries have signed the document but who cares...it's easy to get signatures on a document that had no mandatory requirement. It's all a charade.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Look closer at the pic. :lol:
    What is he drinking his water in.....
    The green gavel along with this.
    That is the irony.

    Haha! Yup!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    BS44325 said:

    The agreement has no compulsory targets. So basically it is just a piece of paper. Think how much CO2 was emitted just to produce this waste of time.

    Yeah, probably right, BS.

    Back to the grindstone.

    It's another no drive day for me and the heats turned down. Got the extra layer and warm fuzzy socks on.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    this agreement is an abject failure ... if there are no legal binding consequences - then there is no progress ... the only positive to come of COP21 is that there was limited energy spent on actually debating the science and that the consensus on global warming is starting to be a bit more real ...

    the sad part of this is that we have the technology to reduce our carbon emissions right now ... but there are too many people making too much money on the backs of the planet for us to do so ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    polaris_x said:

    this agreement is an abject failure ... if there are no legal binding consequences - then there is no progress ... the only positive to come of COP21 is that there was limited energy spent on actually debating the science and that the consensus on global warming is starting to be a bit more real ...

    the sad part of this is that we have the technology to reduce our carbon emissions right now ... but there are too many people making too much money on the backs of the planet for us to do so ...

    Yes again, so true. So it's up to all of us to do our part. I won't list the things we can do. In a nut shell: lower our consumption of energy and goods and what we do purchase, gear more toward needs than wants and seek the most durable good available. That's the only way things will change. Us doing it.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    Brian, it's Dec 14 and here in NY the day's high is 63 degrees fahrenheit.

    They can sign all the damn papers they want. I'ma be underwater soon.
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    ldent42 said:

    Brian, it's Dec 14 and here in NY the day's high is 63 degrees fahrenheit.

    They can sign all the damn papers they want. I'ma be underwater soon.

    That's crazy! I lived in western NY for a couple of years and I remember one day in early March the thermometer hit 54 and I thought I was magically in the Bahamas. 63?? This time of year? Crazy!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,895
    edited December 2015
    200 leaders flew into Paris on 200 different private airliners and drove from their hotel to the event center with 200 different police escorts to halt traffic to smile in front of a camera and sign a sheet of paper to declare themselves to be on the forefront of solving climate change.
    Post edited by mookeywrench on
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    mookeywrench said:

    200 leaders flew into Paris on 200 different private airliners and drove from their hotel to the event center with 200 different police escorts to halt traffic to smile in front of a camera and sign a sheet of paper to declare themselves to be on the forefront of solving climate change.

    And again, I cannot argue. The link below confirms this.

    So again, I have to ask, what are we going to do about it. All we've gotten so far on this thread- and don't get me wrong, I have no arguments with or bad feelings toward any of you-- is how the Paris agreement is a failure and means nothing.

    Here's the deal- if this was 1995, the Paris agreement would have meant something (again, see link below). But the agreement is overdue, and it may be too weak. Many will throw their hands up and say, "See, I told you, we're screwed." Well, I gotta say, screw that. Let's not be weak about this. That kind of talk is for quitters, whiners and the faint-of-heart. We can do better that that.

    The fact that the Paris talks have little to back them is all the more reason for us to wake up, look at the potential disaster we face, and do something to at least buy us (and other life- it's not just about the humans) some time.

    Time to go turn my heater down... even if it is only 26% F up here at 2,000 feet outside right now. Where's my blanket!


    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-paris-climate-agreement-would-be-a-great-first-step-if-this-were-1995/

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    I bought a filtered water bottle. To replace bottled water.
    Don't worry guys, climate crisis solved.
    image
    What's that you say? 68 degrees overnight is not normal weather for New York in December? Don't worry, that just means we're burning less fossil fuel to keep warm! I told yous, I'm on it! Climate crisis is under control. :angry:
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    ldent42 said:

    I bought a filtered water bottle. To replace bottled water.
    Don't worry guys, climate crisis solved.
    image
    What's that you say? 68 degrees overnight is not normal weather for New York in December? Don't worry, that just means we're burning less fossil fuel to keep warm! I told yous, I'm on it! Climate crisis is under control. :angry:

    LOL, you keep me a-goin' Ident! :wink:

    Great idea with the water filter bottle. I have a couple of 2 1/2 gallon PBA free bottles (another iffy product only because I couldn't find the glass ones- crazy enough, I guess they stopped making them out here). The good thing is these bottles will last at least a few life times and I refill them a few blocks from work at Kinetico on Broadway and never need to buy another water bottle. The one I refill and carry around with me is light weight, durable stainless steel.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    I have multiple reusable water bottles, filter my water, recycle everything.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I drink straight from the Earth. It's nice.
    I heat straight from the Earth as well, it's nice also.
    The best is when I eat straight from the Earth, very nice.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    really ... this is what we're up against ...

    http://www.iflscience.com/environment/solar-farm-rejected-over-fears-it-could-drain-sun-cause-cancer

    The Paris climate change agreement is a triumph for the planet, but the widespread ignorance of this subject demonstrates a failure of science communication. And this ignorance is more than just a laughing matter: it could represent an obstacle to reaching certain energy goals. For instance, a town in the U.S. has just blocked construction of a solar farm, in part due to fears it would drain the Sun’s energy, Roanoke-Chowan News-Herald reports.

    Before we go into detail, let us just clarify a few things. Solar panels do not suck up the Sun’s rays of photons. Just like wind farms do not deplete our planet of wind. It’s in the name: these renewable sources of energy are not finite like fossil fuels; we simply harness what is available to us. Wind turbines and solar panels are not vacuums, nor do they divert this energy from other systems. Photons constantly stream towards the planet, and air continually rushes over our lands. There is no “using up” involved.

    Now we have got the science out of the way, back to the story that will likely leave your face thoroughly embedded in your palm. In the town of Woodland, North Carolina, the council has rejected a proposal for the rezoning of a strip of land from residential/agricultural to manufacturing, a move that prevents the construction of a solar farm on the turf. Not only that, but during the same meeting the town council actually voted for a blanket ban on solar farms, despite the fact that three had previously been granted approval, one of which is already being installed.

    No, we are not stealing the Sun.

    By a vote of 3-1, council members approved the rejection of the planned rezoning on the grounds of concerns that had been raised by the public. For instance, Woodland resident Jane Mann, a retired science teacher, feared that vegetation in the area would suffer through a lack of photosynthesis, an energy-making process that requires sunlight. Her anecdotal evidence comes in the form of dead plants she has observed around solar panels. Disappointingly, she is not alone in her beliefs: another resident also said that the farm would suck up the Sun’s energy.

    Mann also voiced concerns of supposedly elevated cancer levels in the area, and the fact that no one had demonstrated these weren’t to do with the installation of the solar panels. If this is a genuine worry shared among residents, or indeed the wider community, it is completely unfounded. Although UV radiation is a carcinogen, something that can cause cancer, solar panels do not affect the amount of UV rays that hit an area.

    Some solar farms are designed in such a way that incoming sunlight is concentrated onto a particular area, for example using mirrors, but there is no risk of this harming a person as the area would be most certainly out of bounds. Yet should you serendipitously manage to find your way onto such a farm, you would probably die of burns before you developed cancer.

    It should be noted that these were not the only issues raised by the public – concerns over property values and impacts on the economy were also voiced. Still, in a society where climate change denial is unfortunately rife, a more sensible move would be to reassure, educate, and inform.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Good article, polaris_x. That bit about solar panels vacuuming up the sun rays, hahaha!

    But this does well illustrate ignorance about science. It also underscores the need for critical thinking and full awareness of the consequences of our action. For example, those of us who are in favor of developing alternative energy sources might assume the more solar farms the better, right? Not necessarily. Some of the larger solar farms being built or planned to be built in desert regions are very harmful to delicate desert ecology. Simply constructing these farms anywhere is unwise and will just transfer one problem on to the next.

    The best solutions to energy needs that do not lead to increased global temperatures will need to include wise planning, reduced consumption of resources and a voluntary lowering of human population. If we don't do these things, we face our own extinction. If we really want to, we can solve the environmental problems we're created.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    brianlux said:

    Good article, polaris_x. That bit about solar panels vacuuming up the sun rays, hahaha!

    But this does well illustrate ignorance about science. It also underscores the need for critical thinking and full awareness of the consequences of our action. For example, those of us who are in favor of developing alternative energy sources might assume the more solar farms the better, right? Not necessarily. Some of the larger solar farms being built or planned to be built in desert regions are very harmful to delicate desert ecology. Simply constructing these farms anywhere is unwise and will just transfer one problem on to the next.

    The best solutions to energy needs that do not lead to increased global temperatures will need to include wise planning, reduced consumption of resources and a voluntary lowering of human population. If we don't do these things, we face our own extinction. If we really want to, we can solve the environmental problems we're created.

    Brian how does the ecology get damaged in a desert? I know we couldn't build in the Mojave for a year because of a tortoise. Once the area was made tortoise proof and the offending tortoise was caught we could build again.

    I figured the desert to have a very low impact?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    Good article, polaris_x. That bit about solar panels vacuuming up the sun rays, hahaha!

    But this does well illustrate ignorance about science. It also underscores the need for critical thinking and full awareness of the consequences of our action. For example, those of us who are in favor of developing alternative energy sources might assume the more solar farms the better, right? Not necessarily. Some of the larger solar farms being built or planned to be built in desert regions are very harmful to delicate desert ecology. Simply constructing these farms anywhere is unwise and will just transfer one problem on to the next.

    The best solutions to energy needs that do not lead to increased global temperatures will need to include wise planning, reduced consumption of resources and a voluntary lowering of human population. If we don't do these things, we face our own extinction. If we really want to, we can solve the environmental problems we're created.

    Brian how does the ecology get damaged in a desert? I know we couldn't build in the Mojave for a year because of a tortoise. Once the area was made tortoise proof and the offending tortoise was caught we could build again.

    I figured the desert to have a very low impact?
    A number of ways, Tempo. Large solar arrays alter the flow of water in the desert and divert it into culverts which alter the types and size of plant growth. More roads (constructed to build solar farms) damage soils and disrupt wild life. Desert plants which hold soils in place are removed to build the solar arrays and this cause more dust which reduces photosynthesis in plants that remain. Biotic crusts which are composed of cyanobacteria and lichens are destroyed simply by walking on them so so can see how roads and construction would do far more damage to them. These crust hold the soil in place and there loss will cause great dust storms.

    Desert life is very delicate and easily damaged. We don't know the full effects of disrupting such life. People often think of deserts as mere wastelands but if you spend time in a healthy desert you begin to understand that it thrives with a life and a life and marvelous beauty of its own. Deserts should never be written off as wastelands.

    Google "how solar farms harm desert ecology" or something to that effect and you'll find several articles that explain all this in greater detail.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    We didn't get much rain in the Mojave desert to grow much of anything. Lots of sage and Joshua trees though.

    The desert is a harsh place. The winds are constantly blowing the dirt around so I don't see how walking on it disturbs it. It's not like it's a stalagmite and dies on contact?

    I have fond memories of the desert. Had a lot of fun there.

    There's a huge solar field out by 395. Place is huge and the desert plants still grow and the rattlers are still there and the rabbits are abundant and the coyotes are still hunting them.

    I'll check out the article and thanks.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    tempo_n_groove said:

    We didn't get much rain in the Mojave desert to grow much of anything. Lots of sage and Joshua trees though.

    The desert is a harsh place. The winds are constantly blowing the dirt around so I don't see how walking on it disturbs it. It's not like it's a stalagmite and dies on contact?

    I have fond memories of the desert. Had a lot of fun there.

    There's a huge solar field out by 395. Place is huge and the desert plants still grow and the rattlers are still there and the rabbits are abundant and the coyotes are still hunting them.

    I'll check out the article and thanks.

    Yes, deserts are harsh places, brutal even in some ways. But that makes them no less beautiful and important. I've spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert and the Great Basin- many of my most memorable outdoor experiences are in these desert regions. These are magnificent places that are being ruthlessly destroyed. Doing so is yet another example of human ignorance and destructive anthropocentric thinking. Sad, really sad.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    brianlux said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    We didn't get much rain in the Mojave desert to grow much of anything. Lots of sage and Joshua trees though.

    The desert is a harsh place. The winds are constantly blowing the dirt around so I don't see how walking on it disturbs it. It's not like it's a stalagmite and dies on contact?

    I have fond memories of the desert. Had a lot of fun there.

    There's a huge solar field out by 395. Place is huge and the desert plants still grow and the rattlers are still there and the rabbits are abundant and the coyotes are still hunting them.

    I'll check out the article and thanks.

    Yes, deserts are harsh places, brutal even in some ways. But that makes them no less beautiful and important. I've spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert and the Great Basin- many of my most memorable outdoor experiences are in these desert regions. These are magnificent places that are being ruthlessly destroyed. Doing so is yet another example of human ignorance and destructive anthropocentric thinking. Sad, really sad.
    Those places are being destroyed by what? Very curious.

    I do believe that the desert is one of the most beautiful places on earth too Brian.

    I've watched things be built and still watched the desert thrive. There are millions of acres that are untouched. The solar panels make excellent hiding spots for some of the animals. They also catch seeds and vegetation will grow around them. Nothing grows too tall in the desert. Think of the abandoned Derrick's in the ocean. They have done wonderful things for the ecosystem.

    Solar wind and hydro power are excellent ways to get us off of carbon. I'd like to see more power harvested from the ocean though.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    We didn't get much rain in the Mojave desert to grow much of anything. Lots of sage and Joshua trees though.

    The desert is a harsh place. The winds are constantly blowing the dirt around so I don't see how walking on it disturbs it. It's not like it's a stalagmite and dies on contact?

    I have fond memories of the desert. Had a lot of fun there.

    There's a huge solar field out by 395. Place is huge and the desert plants still grow and the rattlers are still there and the rabbits are abundant and the coyotes are still hunting them.

    I'll check out the article and thanks.

    Yes, deserts are harsh places, brutal even in some ways. But that makes them no less beautiful and important. I've spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert and the Great Basin- many of my most memorable outdoor experiences are in these desert regions. These are magnificent places that are being ruthlessly destroyed. Doing so is yet another example of human ignorance and destructive anthropocentric thinking. Sad, really sad.
    Those places are being destroyed by what? Very curious.

    I do believe that the desert is one of the most beautiful places on earth too Brian.

    I've watched things be built and still watched the desert thrive. There are millions of acres that are untouched. The solar panels make excellent hiding spots for some of the animals. They also catch seeds and vegetation will grow around them. Nothing grows too tall in the desert. Think of the abandoned Derrick's in the ocean. They have done wonderful things for the ecosystem.

    Solar wind and hydro power are excellent ways to get us off of carbon. I'd like to see more power harvested from the ocean though.
    Yeah, some of those ocean turbines look promising if they can be built without causing harm to marine life.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    I heard the wind farms kill birds though.
    I'm not a fan of killing birds. (except chickens, because they are delicious).

    +1 on the ocean power. Kinda feels like we are ignoring (other than destroying) a potentially huge resource.
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  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,881
    edited December 2015
    ldent42 said:

    I heard the wind farms kill birds though.
    I'm not a fan of killing birds. (except chickens, because they are delicious).

    +1 on the ocean power. Kinda feels like we are ignoring (other than destroying) a potentially huge resource.

    ldent42 said:

    I heard the wind farms kill birds though.
    I'm not a fan of killing birds. (except chickens, because they are delicious).

    +1 on the ocean power. Kinda feels like we are ignoring (other than destroying) a potentially huge resource.

    Wind farms kill a few thousand birds a year while cats kill about a million a year.
    Edit: Sorry about the double quote.

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