I'm not going to get in to this properly because arguing on the internet against some little keyboard warriors is absolutely pointless.
But some of you people make me sick. And I'm talking directly to those who say you can't vote Bush and vote Eddie.
Any time you put down a marker to say somebody should be kept from enjoying this band (or any band), you've crossed a line and have illustrated a complete misunderstanding of what music is actually about.
was it that tour that a large section of the crowd walked out during that song?
That's not even what happened. I believe it's the 4/1/03 Denver show you're referring to. I was there and saw a few people leave, but maybe it was their piss break song. There may have been a few that left because they were offended but I assure you I would have noticed if a "large section" left. The true story is that some ultra-conservative Denver newspaper was offended and ran a terribly inaccurate story about it, then it got picked up by some of the national media.
You're completely wrong. We're not an f-ing poilitical party ... we're rock and roll fans. Frankly, I'm gonna keep following this band as I have for 15 years because they are a great band. But there isn't a political tie-in or freaking lefty litmus test to be a fan. I don't like the song, but it has nothing to do with the message - PJ plays plenty of good songs with a political message. This just isn't one of them. It's trite, pretentious, and the lyrics sound right out of the notebook of an angst ridden college student. Ed can do better ... and has done better hundreds of times. Those of you who want to pump your fists and cheer it, go for it. Those who want to boo ... they can do what they like. Being a PJ fan doesn't mean goosestepping to the anti-American party line. I'm pretty damn sure Ed doesn't exclude those fans who disagree with him politically - pretty evident by his frequent references to his dear friend Johnny Ramone who is pretty damn conservative and would no doubt have drawn the ire of the poster here.
Get over yourself. If you love the song, all the power to you. And I say the same to those who want to boo it. That's what America is about. That's what rock and roll is about - free spirited independence. And if you really think someone is less a fan in Ed's eyes or anyone else's because they don't take their political cues from rock bands, then you are an aneathma to the very freedom and tolerance you likely claim to defend.
The point is not that you can't be a fan. Why would you want to. The point was how the hell can you support something that is against the things that you believe in. And on the booing well I think that is shit if you do that. You bought the ticket and they play the songs, and they do that quite well. So you can't complain, oh well you could complain, but just not like that.
I don't deny anyone the right to listen. And what if I did? It wouldn't change a thing for you. I guess it's just how seriously you take the words to the songs and your own convictions.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
come again? i hope u mean Ed-himself. if he vents his opinion fine. i dont have to like it...read this its easy-- Love pearl jam music-- dont like his opinion in my face...
I get what you mean, but it wasn't like that for me, if he had wanted to do it for the effect he would have done it early during the set.
Yes I think they should get right in everyone's face and play it in America as well, maybe he just don't wish to put a bad vibe at the gigs in America. Effecting the ones who take offence and the people who don't but get effected by the booing.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
The point is not that you can't be a fan. Why would you want to. The point was how the hell can you support something that is against the things that you believe in. And on the booing well I think that is shit if you do that. You bought the ticket and they play the songs, and they do that quite well. So you can't complain, oh well you could complain, but just not like that.
Easily. I am a huge music fan and love Pearl Jam's music. In fact, I love it so much that I can cut right through the political disagreement. Everyone can complain. Guys in the band (and others) have a right to voice their opinion, and paying customers have the right to like it or dislike it, cheer or boo. When Pearl Jam starts making bad songs and putting on bad shows, then I'll "boycott". If they are a great band, why should I deprive myself of the joy I get from the tunes over politics?
I don't think politics and entertainment necessarily go hand in hand. I don't look to celebrities for my political education, and I don't look at those who disagree with me as enemies ... but rather as brothers and sisters who disagree with me. Whether it's entertainment, friendship, or professional relations, I have no requirement that others think like I do or believe what I do. I am perfectly comfortable arguing politics with others and then having a beer together. I wish more people would. Actually, PJ fans DO!!!
The point is not that you can't be a fan. Why would you want to. The point was how the hell can you support something that is against the things that you believe in. And on the booing well I think that is shit if you do that. You bought the ticket and they play the songs, and they do that quite well. So you can't complain, oh well you could complain, but just not like that.
I don't deny anyone the right to listen. And what if I did? It wouldn't change a thing for you. I guess it's just how seriously you take the words to the songs and your own convictions.
Just because you are a fan of the music doesn't mean you're a fan of the politics. I don't need to be a liberal to enjoy "Off He Goes" "Given To Fly" or "Black". Even many of their political songs can be appreciated by both sides of the aisle. Even Flow, although politically charged about the homeless, isn't exactly partisan...as both conservatives and liberals have a concern for the problem. Even more focused songs such as "Green Disease" can be interpreted generally. There are very few songs that PJ performs that are so forward in their message that they are beyond personal interpretation. People are just that, people, and they'll have different opinions. I don't dislike someone for thinking different than I do as long as their actions don't have a negative effect on my life. I have many liberal and conservative friends and LOVE getting into debates with them and having a good time later. That's one of the things that makes this country great.
I do agree however, that although it's people's right to boo if they wish, it's rude and I don't take part in it. I simply don't overexert myself with the cheering.
And lastly, and this is my opinion, that there's discussion going on here that doesn't belong in the Given to Fly forum, more for the Moving Train forum. I think if there is any more discussion, it should be done there. Thanks for listening.
Good point. When I started reading this thread, I thought the same thing ... "doesn't this belong on the Moving Train?" But it's a tough call since this thread is about a song ... and the live performance of that song.
Anyhow, I'm glad it's here instead. The posting fans on the music side tend be less vicious and, dare I say, far less tolerant.
So many of the anti-Bush folks claim to be so "tolerant", but what's so tolerant about spewing venom at those who disagree with you? Or having a mindset that can't fathom how someone can love Pearl Jam and not hate President Bush. If that's the case, ask yourself what it means to be tolerant and believe in equality.
Us "conservatives" aren't all caricatured bigots who shout down others and forcefeed our views. I may disagree with the overwhelming majority of PJ fans on most issues, but absolutely respect the right of all people to their independent viewpoints ... and my gut tells me this band appreciates their fans just the same irrespective of race, religion, ethnicity, or ideology. "Diversity" should go beyond what meets the eye. Diversity is every bit as much about what we think/feel as it is about the color of our skin, the place we come from, or the God we do (or don't) pray to.
And my apologies if I'm veering into Moving Train turf but, as I said, the folks here seem to be less tightly wound.
Easily. I am a huge music fan and love Pearl Jam's music. In fact, I love it so much that I can cut right through the political disagreement. Everyone can complain. Guys in the band (and others) have a right to voice their opinion, and paying customers have the right to like it or dislike it, cheer or boo. When Pearl Jam starts making bad songs and putting on bad shows, then I'll "boycott". If they are a great band, why should I deprive myself of the joy I get from the tunes over politics?
I don't think politics and entertainment necessarily go hand in hand. I don't look to celebrities for my political education, and I don't look at those who disagree with me as enemies ... but rather as brothers and sisters who disagree with me. Whether it's entertainment, friendship, or professional relations, I have no requirement that others think like I do or believe what I do. I am perfectly comfortable arguing politics with others and then having a beer together. I wish more people would. Actually, PJ fans DO!!!
I guess you just don't listen to music or at least Pearl jam the way I do(no value judgement in it though). I don't hear music, I hear songs. If you know what I mean. I can't hear them without the words and the words have meaning.
I don't see it as entertainment either. I think you are wrong in your views, but in the end that doesn't matter since everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so we have a very different view on the booing issue. You can't boo an artist, well maybe if they don't do their best. Still I don't believe that can be said about Pearl jam. If for nothing else don't boo because it will ruin the vibe and the rest of the gig and since you are there that ain't too smart.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I do agree however, that although it's people's right to boo if they wish, it's rude and I don't take part in it. I simply don't overexert myself with the cheering.
I'm with you. I quietly seize the opportunity to sit and rest my feet. And since I'm 6'3", I'm pretty darn sure the fans behind me don't mind either!
Yeah, booing is obnoxious and I sure don't ever like to hear PJ booed. But I guess paying customers have the right to offend so long as they don't endanger others.
I guess you just don't listen to music or at least Pearl jam the way I do(no value judgement in it though). I don't hear music, I hear songs. If you know what I mean. I can't hear them without the words and the words have meaning. I don't see it as entertainment either. I think you are wrong in your views, but in the end that doesn't matter since everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so we have a very different view on the booing issue. You can't boo an artist, well maybe if they don't do their best. Still I don't believe that can be said about Pearl jam. If for nothing else don't boo because it will ruin the vibe and the rest of the gig and since you are there that ain't too smart.
Actually, TONS of PJ songs strike a chord in my gut and are more than "just songs" ... Bushleaguer, Grievance, and Stupid Mop just don't happen to be among them. I don't know how you listen to the music, but go with whatever works for you. Yeah, Present Tense, Red Mosquito, Black, Immortality, Indifference ... they send a chill down my spine every time. In fact, so does an anti-war song like Army Reserve! At the end of the day, my issue with Bushleaguer isn't that it attacks a politician - it ain't the first and surely not the last to do so. I just think its sort of a silly song.
Just because you are a fan of the music doesn't mean you're a fan of the politics. I don't need to be a liberal to enjoy "Off He Goes" "Given To Fly" or "Black". Even many of their political songs can be appreciated by both sides of the aisle. Even Flow, although politically charged about the homeless, isn't exactly partisan...as both conservatives and liberals have a concern for the problem. Even more focused songs such as "Green Disease" can be interpreted generally. There are very few songs that PJ performs that are so forward in their message that they are beyond personal interpretation. People are just that, people, and they'll have different opinions. I don't dislike someone for thinking different than I do as long as their actions don't have a negative effect on my life. I have many liberal and conservative friends and LOVE getting into debates with them and having a good time later. That's one of the things that makes this country great.
I do agree however, that although it's people's right to boo if they wish, it's rude and I don't take part in it. I simply don't overexert myself with the cheering.
Well I just could never do that. If a band is about something that I disagree on than it is goodbye. About Even flow. Yes you assuming you vote right probable have a different solution coming from that back ground than I would coming from mine. That isn't covered in the song. What is is that the existence of the problem is a bad thing and one would be an ass to disagree on that. Sure you don't need to be left. You might also be left and pro war.
And that is what I don't understand. If you feel so strong on either Bush or the war how can you combine the two. See to me love for life and going to war don't combine, and Pearl jam is all about love for life to me.
So if you feel that strong that you have the need to boo this band, how can you have any respect for it hence listen to it.
To me that love for life is something that lies at the heart of Pearl jam and can be found in any song. And I don't see how you can divide the two.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Actually, TONS of PJ songs strike a chord in my gut and are more than "just songs" ... Bushleaguer, Grievance, and Stupid Mop just don't happen to be among them. I don't know how you listen to the music, but go with whatever works for you. Yeah, Present Tense, Red Mosquito, Black, Immortality, Indifference ... they send a chill down my spine every time. In fact, so does an anti-war song like Army Reserve! At the end of the day, my issue with Bushleaguer isn't that it attacks a politician - it ain't the first and surely not the last to do so. I just think its sort of a silly song.
Well that can be, I certainly don't like every song myself.
I like it because of it's weird structure. In fact I wish they made more weird music. I don't listen to Pearl jams music as I would listen to the music of lets say Pink Floyd. That is more about the effect of an lick then it is with Pearl jam. Pearl jam make songs that go with the lyrics, the text is a big part of it. The two make a whole.
I meant to say maybe you are the type of listener that hears the lyrics in the second place. But that is just figuring from the way I experience Pearl jam or other bands that make little stories to music. I hear the words first, and if a band is about something that goes against my believes I could not listen to them.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Well that can be, I certainly don't like every song myself.
I like it because of it's weird structure. In fact I wish they made more weird music. I don't listen to Pearl jams music as I would listen to the music of lets say Pink Floyd. That is more about the effect of an lick then it is with Pearl jam. Pearl jam make songs that go with the lyrics, the text is a big part of it. The two make a whole.
I meant to say maybe you are the type of listener that hears the lyrics in the second place. But that is just figuring from the way I experience Pearl jam. I hear the words first, and if a band is about something that goes against my believes I could not listen to them.
Ok, I have to fess up that I sort of do like Bushleaguer musically. I know politically lots of fans like the lyrical content but I think it's cooler as an instrumental. I like stranger songs too, and always been a HUGE Floyd fan. (I don't even want to get into how many times I tripped to watch Pompeii or The Wall in my younger days). Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!!
Ok, I'll give you an example. In '96 when I bought No Code and first heard the "Sometimes" opener I was going nuts at how great I thought it was. I thought, "this is different than anything I've yet heard Pearl Jam play"! I love the Can't Keep opener too, and would love to see it return sometime this tour. Thos offbeat PJ songs are among the best - Sleight Of Hand is as underrated as they get. I was at Alpine Valley in '03 and sat on my ass during Bushleaguer. At the end, I turned to my buddy and admitted grudgingly "that version did sound pretty damn good". But I never sat in '00 ... had to keep moving, too damn COLD!!!
Pearl jam make songs that go with the lyrics, the text is a big part of it. The two make a whole.
Actually, my love for PJ is incredibly tied in to the lyrics - I just think their lyrical talent is in telling individual tales and tapping into the emotions of the listeners. In my opinion, pure political protest is not Pearl Jam's top lyrical strength. For pure political or anti-establishment commentary or protest, try the Drive-By Truckers. If you want to go back 20 years and hear the best anti-conservative rock, try the Minutemen ... or for a scathing attack on a political conservative, listen to Elvis Costello's "Tramp The Dirt Down" and he'll let you know how he felt about Maggie.
Pearl Jam is immensely gifted lyrically, but if I wanted to show that gift off to a new listener ... I wouldnt reach for the politics first. I think they do better elsewhere and their overtly political lyrics are not their "A" material. Of course this is just one fans' opinion with no claim to be right or wrong.
Ok, I have to fess up that I sort of do like Bushleaguer musically. I know politically lots of fans like the lyrical content but I think it's cooler as an instrumental. I like stranger songs too, and always been a HUGE Floyd fan. (I don't even want to get into how many times I tripped to watch Pompeii or The Wall in my younger days). Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!!
Ok, I'll give you an example. In '96 when I bought No Code and first heard the "Sometimes" opener I was going nuts at how great I thought it was. I thought, "this is different than anything I've yet heard Pearl Jam play"! I love the Can't Keep opener too, and would love to see it return sometime this tour. Thos offbeat PJ songs are among the best - Sleight Of Hand is as underrated as they get. I was at Alpine Valley in '03 and sat on my ass during Bushleaguer. At the end, I turned to my buddy and admitted grudgingly "that version did sound pretty damn good". But I never sat in '00 ... had to keep moving, too damn COLD!!!
No code is my absolute favourite album.
You ask: Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!!
I would have saddled for the intro part.:D They didn't play it in Arnhem they did the Ten intro. Not that I am complaining. I two have the wish that they would make a more atmospheric and off beat album than the normal straight on rock. That would be bloody brilliant with Eddies voice.
Sometimes is just so sweet as an opener. It is more like painting with chords than it is playing a song.
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I'm not going to get in to this properly because arguing on the internet against some little keyboard warriors is absolutely pointless.
But some of you people make me sick. And I'm talking directly to those who say you can't vote Bush and vote Eddie.
Any time you put down a marker to say somebody should be kept from enjoying this band (or any band), you've crossed a line and have illustrated a complete misunderstanding of what music is actually about.
PEARL JAM IS NOT A POLITICAL PARTY
Couldn't agree more with your premise that PJ isn't a political party. But the debate here is pretty level-headed and cool. People definitely get a little emboldened at keyboards and I'm not a huge fan of that medium for debate/discussion. Having said that, I find that when you lower the room temperature a bit, most of the initially venomous folks lighten up. Not all, but most.
Crazy as it sounds to most of you, I'd still vote Bush against what the Dems are putting out there ... and I'll still see PJ and listen to Ed rant to the contrary EVERY CHANCE I GET. God Bless America that different ends of the spectrum always have, and will somehow coexist.
No code is my absolute favourite album. You ask: Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!! I would have saddled for the intro part.:D They didn't play it in Arnhem they did the Ten intro. Not that I am complaining. I two have the wish that they would make a more atmospheric and off beat album than the normal straight on rock. That would be bloody brilliant with Eddies voice. Sometimes is just so sweet as an opener. It is more like painting with chords than it is playing a song.
You underscore my point. We disagree politically ... yet when the subject is the MUSIC, we had no problem bridging that gap and getting on the same wavelength. We could probably do that on 90% of the songs. Should politics make all that meaningless??
Thats the point.
And when the f*&% are the Euro boots gonna become available??
See, everything grinds to a halt due to your socialist/internationalist/bureaucratic tendencies!!!!!
remember that song was written for all those who go to the show to hear black and jeremy. It makes me laugh soooo hard when i see people get so upset over pearl jams political messages, they just listen to the songs and not the words!!! to those people U SUCK!!!!
P.S. George Bush sucks tooo whooo hoooo
casper9964
7/11/98 Soldier Field, ILL
6/29/98 United Center, ILL
8/17/98 Noblesville, IN
6/21/03 Alpine Vally, WI
5/16/06 United Center, ILL
5/17/06 United Center, ILL
Actually, my love for PJ is incredibly tied in to the lyrics - I just think their lyrical talent is in telling individual tales and tapping into the emotions of the listeners. In my opinion, pure political protest is not Pearl Jam's top lyrical strength. For pure political or anti-establishment commentary or protest, try the Drive-By Truckers. If you want to go back 20 years and hear the best anti-conservative rock, try the Minutemen ... or for a scathing attack on a political conservative, listen to Elvis Costello's "Tramp The Dirt Down" and he'll let you know how he felt about Maggie.
Pearl Jam is immensely gifted lyrically, but if I wanted to show that gift off to a new listener ... I wouldnt reach for the politics first. I think they do better elsewhere and their overtly political lyrics are not their "A" material. Of course this is just one fans' opinion with no claim to be right or wrong.
I don't know, guess it is what you see as political. And in the words of Skunk anasie Everything is political:D No seriously I think State of love and trust or I got ID/shit are political to me, or lets say they are about society. And I do like them very much. They put the finger on the spot for me. It isn't political like Dylans master of war, but it does raise a social issue for me. I would love to live in a state of love and trust and I hate walking in line and doing what is expected of me, but sometimes I do have to. And even than I am pretty bad at it.:p
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
You underscore my point. We disagree politically ... yet when the subject is the MUSIC, we had no problem bridging that gap and getting on the same wavelength. We could probably do that on 90% of the songs. Should politics make all that meaningless??
Thats the point.
I get your point. I don't know your views, but I could easily not like someone that digs Pearl jam because of their views because that is more important to me. Well on some issues to be exact. I don't agree with my friends on every occasion and they don't agree with me either. Still there is a global comparison, and there are just some issues that over ride every thing. Lets say I meet a racist, I just could never respect a person like that. And the same goes for a band.
I didn't mean to undermine your point, I just thought their wasn't any. :D hihi that didn't came out right. I wasn't aware you were trying to make one. I just thought you were telling me a story.
And when the f*&% are the Euro boots gonna become available??
See, everything grinds to a halt due to your socialist/internationalist/bureaucratic tendencies!!!!!
Well you could bomb who ever is responsible.;) There is another cliché for ya.:D:p
« One man's glory is another man's hell.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I love this song. I like the lyrics, the music, the political message - but my favorite is the mask and Ed's little Bush dance. I've yet to see it live, but one day I will - and I will cheer my ass off!
Comments
But some of you people make me sick. And I'm talking directly to those who say you can't vote Bush and vote Eddie.
Any time you put down a marker to say somebody should be kept from enjoying this band (or any band), you've crossed a line and have illustrated a complete misunderstanding of what music is actually about.
PEARL JAM IS NOT A POLITICAL PARTY
The point is not that you can't be a fan. Why would you want to. The point was how the hell can you support something that is against the things that you believe in. And on the booing well I think that is shit if you do that. You bought the ticket and they play the songs, and they do that quite well. So you can't complain, oh well you could complain, but just not like that.
I don't deny anyone the right to listen. And what if I did? It wouldn't change a thing for you. I guess it's just how seriously you take the words to the songs and your own convictions.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I get what you mean, but it wasn't like that for me, if he had wanted to do it for the effect he would have done it early during the set.
Yes I think they should get right in everyone's face and play it in America as well, maybe he just don't wish to put a bad vibe at the gigs in America. Effecting the ones who take offence and the people who don't but get effected by the booing.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Easily. I am a huge music fan and love Pearl Jam's music. In fact, I love it so much that I can cut right through the political disagreement. Everyone can complain. Guys in the band (and others) have a right to voice their opinion, and paying customers have the right to like it or dislike it, cheer or boo. When Pearl Jam starts making bad songs and putting on bad shows, then I'll "boycott". If they are a great band, why should I deprive myself of the joy I get from the tunes over politics?
I don't think politics and entertainment necessarily go hand in hand. I don't look to celebrities for my political education, and I don't look at those who disagree with me as enemies ... but rather as brothers and sisters who disagree with me. Whether it's entertainment, friendship, or professional relations, I have no requirement that others think like I do or believe what I do. I am perfectly comfortable arguing politics with others and then having a beer together. I wish more people would. Actually, PJ fans DO!!!
I do agree however, that although it's people's right to boo if they wish, it's rude and I don't take part in it. I simply don't overexert myself with the cheering.
Good point. When I started reading this thread, I thought the same thing ... "doesn't this belong on the Moving Train?" But it's a tough call since this thread is about a song ... and the live performance of that song.
Anyhow, I'm glad it's here instead. The posting fans on the music side tend be less vicious and, dare I say, far less tolerant.
So many of the anti-Bush folks claim to be so "tolerant", but what's so tolerant about spewing venom at those who disagree with you? Or having a mindset that can't fathom how someone can love Pearl Jam and not hate President Bush. If that's the case, ask yourself what it means to be tolerant and believe in equality.
Us "conservatives" aren't all caricatured bigots who shout down others and forcefeed our views. I may disagree with the overwhelming majority of PJ fans on most issues, but absolutely respect the right of all people to their independent viewpoints ... and my gut tells me this band appreciates their fans just the same irrespective of race, religion, ethnicity, or ideology. "Diversity" should go beyond what meets the eye. Diversity is every bit as much about what we think/feel as it is about the color of our skin, the place we come from, or the God we do (or don't) pray to.
And my apologies if I'm veering into Moving Train turf but, as I said, the folks here seem to be less tightly wound.
I guess you just don't listen to music or at least Pearl jam the way I do(no value judgement in it though). I don't hear music, I hear songs. If you know what I mean. I can't hear them without the words and the words have meaning.
I don't see it as entertainment either. I think you are wrong in your views, but in the end that doesn't matter since everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so we have a very different view on the booing issue. You can't boo an artist, well maybe if they don't do their best. Still I don't believe that can be said about Pearl jam. If for nothing else don't boo because it will ruin the vibe and the rest of the gig and since you are there that ain't too smart.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I'm with you. I quietly seize the opportunity to sit and rest my feet. And since I'm 6'3", I'm pretty darn sure the fans behind me don't mind either!
Yeah, booing is obnoxious and I sure don't ever like to hear PJ booed. But I guess paying customers have the right to offend so long as they don't endanger others.
Actually, TONS of PJ songs strike a chord in my gut and are more than "just songs" ... Bushleaguer, Grievance, and Stupid Mop just don't happen to be among them. I don't know how you listen to the music, but go with whatever works for you. Yeah, Present Tense, Red Mosquito, Black, Immortality, Indifference ... they send a chill down my spine every time. In fact, so does an anti-war song like Army Reserve! At the end of the day, my issue with Bushleaguer isn't that it attacks a politician - it ain't the first and surely not the last to do so. I just think its sort of a silly song.
Well I just could never do that. If a band is about something that I disagree on than it is goodbye. About Even flow. Yes you assuming you vote right probable have a different solution coming from that back ground than I would coming from mine. That isn't covered in the song. What is is that the existence of the problem is a bad thing and one would be an ass to disagree on that. Sure you don't need to be left. You might also be left and pro war.
And that is what I don't understand. If you feel so strong on either Bush or the war how can you combine the two. See to me love for life and going to war don't combine, and Pearl jam is all about love for life to me.
So if you feel that strong that you have the need to boo this band, how can you have any respect for it hence listen to it.
To me that love for life is something that lies at the heart of Pearl jam and can be found in any song. And I don't see how you can divide the two.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Well that can be, I certainly don't like every song myself.
I like it because of it's weird structure. In fact I wish they made more weird music. I don't listen to Pearl jams music as I would listen to the music of lets say Pink Floyd. That is more about the effect of an lick then it is with Pearl jam. Pearl jam make songs that go with the lyrics, the text is a big part of it. The two make a whole.
I meant to say maybe you are the type of listener that hears the lyrics in the second place. But that is just figuring from the way I experience Pearl jam or other bands that make little stories to music. I hear the words first, and if a band is about something that goes against my believes I could not listen to them.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Ok, I have to fess up that I sort of do like Bushleaguer musically. I know politically lots of fans like the lyrical content but I think it's cooler as an instrumental. I like stranger songs too, and always been a HUGE Floyd fan. (I don't even want to get into how many times I tripped to watch Pompeii or The Wall in my younger days). Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!!
Ok, I'll give you an example. In '96 when I bought No Code and first heard the "Sometimes" opener I was going nuts at how great I thought it was. I thought, "this is different than anything I've yet heard Pearl Jam play"! I love the Can't Keep opener too, and would love to see it return sometime this tour. Thos offbeat PJ songs are among the best - Sleight Of Hand is as underrated as they get. I was at Alpine Valley in '03 and sat on my ass during Bushleaguer. At the end, I turned to my buddy and admitted grudgingly "that version did sound pretty damn good". But I never sat in '00 ... had to keep moving, too damn COLD!!!
Actually, my love for PJ is incredibly tied in to the lyrics - I just think their lyrical talent is in telling individual tales and tapping into the emotions of the listeners. In my opinion, pure political protest is not Pearl Jam's top lyrical strength. For pure political or anti-establishment commentary or protest, try the Drive-By Truckers. If you want to go back 20 years and hear the best anti-conservative rock, try the Minutemen ... or for a scathing attack on a political conservative, listen to Elvis Costello's "Tramp The Dirt Down" and he'll let you know how he felt about Maggie.
Pearl Jam is immensely gifted lyrically, but if I wanted to show that gift off to a new listener ... I wouldnt reach for the politics first. I think they do better elsewhere and their overtly political lyrics are not their "A" material. Of course this is just one fans' opinion with no claim to be right or wrong.
No code is my absolute favourite album.
You ask: Don't you wish they'd play the WHOLE Interstellar Overdrive??!!
I would have saddled for the intro part.:D They didn't play it in Arnhem they did the Ten intro. Not that I am complaining. I two have the wish that they would make a more atmospheric and off beat album than the normal straight on rock. That would be bloody brilliant with Eddies voice.
Sometimes is just so sweet as an opener. It is more like painting with chords than it is playing a song.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Couldn't agree more with your premise that PJ isn't a political party. But the debate here is pretty level-headed and cool. People definitely get a little emboldened at keyboards and I'm not a huge fan of that medium for debate/discussion. Having said that, I find that when you lower the room temperature a bit, most of the initially venomous folks lighten up. Not all, but most.
Crazy as it sounds to most of you, I'd still vote Bush against what the Dems are putting out there ... and I'll still see PJ and listen to Ed rant to the contrary EVERY CHANCE I GET. God Bless America that different ends of the spectrum always have, and will somehow coexist.
You underscore my point. We disagree politically ... yet when the subject is the MUSIC, we had no problem bridging that gap and getting on the same wavelength. We could probably do that on 90% of the songs. Should politics make all that meaningless??
Thats the point.
And when the f*&% are the Euro boots gonna become available??
See, everything grinds to a halt due to your socialist/internationalist/bureaucratic tendencies!!!!!
P.S. George Bush sucks tooo whooo hoooo
7/11/98 Soldier Field, ILL
6/29/98 United Center, ILL
8/17/98 Noblesville, IN
6/21/03 Alpine Vally, WI
5/16/06 United Center, ILL
5/17/06 United Center, ILL
I don't know, guess it is what you see as political. And in the words of Skunk anasie Everything is political:D No seriously I think State of love and trust or I got ID/shit are political to me, or lets say they are about society. And I do like them very much. They put the finger on the spot for me. It isn't political like Dylans master of war, but it does raise a social issue for me. I would love to live in a state of love and trust and I hate walking in line and doing what is expected of me, but sometimes I do have to. And even than I am pretty bad at it.:p
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
I get your point. I don't know your views, but I could easily not like someone that digs Pearl jam because of their views because that is more important to me. Well on some issues to be exact. I don't agree with my friends on every occasion and they don't agree with me either. Still there is a global comparison, and there are just some issues that over ride every thing. Lets say I meet a racist, I just could never respect a person like that. And the same goes for a band.
I didn't mean to undermine your point, I just thought their wasn't any.
And when the f*&% are the Euro boots gonna become available??
Well you could bomb who ever is responsible.;) There is another cliché for ya.:D:p
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Who made who?