This could get ugly - Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey

Thoughts_Arrive

http://www.theage.com.au/world/fighter-jet-goes-down-in-flames-near-syrian-border-20151124-gl71gs.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:fac-14omn0021-optim-nnn:nonpaid-25062014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-age-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_facebook

BLACK35

Just seen this on CNN, ya this could get ugly yet before it's over

mickeyrat

Been warned before since syrian ops started by russia and basically flipped off turkey.


Definately interesting times we live in.

SVRDhand13

I understand Turkey warned Russia several times, but this seems like VERY poor timing.

mickeyrat

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/09/how-the-rivalry-between-russians-and-turks-shaped-the-world/?postshare=7491448379265633&tid=ss_tw

brianlux

A little off topic but is it really tomorrow in Turkey already? The article is dated November 25, 2015 (I know the answer- Google tells me right now it is 7:09 PM Tuesday, November 24, 2015 in Turkey right now).

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

A little off topic but is it really tomorrow in Turkey already? The article is dated November 25, 2015 (I know the answer- Google tells me right now it is 7:09 PM Tuesday, November 24, 2015 in Turkey right now).

Could have been a typo but it said 330am as well which leads me to believe a eastern indian ocean of western pacific location.

ThoughtsArrive ia Australian so the time/date stamp fit.

PJ_Soul

Seems damned stupid on Turkey's part, even if the plane was in their airspace briefly. And if it wasn't, as Russia is trying to claim, then doubly stupid.

davidtrios

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

SVRDhand13

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

rgambs

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

mickeyrat

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

And the pilots ejected. Unlnown if killed AFTER parachuting in syria. Conflicting reports.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/24/reports-turkey-shoots-russian-jet/76299190/

Drowned Out

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

That would depend on your news source, I guess...

rgambs

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

That would depend on your news source, I guess...

Is that not accurate?

Drowned Out

rgambs said:

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

That would depend on your news source, I guess...

Is that not accurate?

Not according to any Russian source, and many alt sources....click around a bit on globalresearch, RT, PressTV, Fars etc....pretty much any news source that doesn't come from the west. I know most people here brush those sources off as if they're crap, but....so is US media for the most part. They all seem to claim Russia is the only country actually fighting ISIS, while the US, Turkey, and the Saudis are helping them. I'm sure Russia isn't really differentiating much between the FSA and ISIS tho....really, should they? They are all terrorists as far as Assad is concerned, and he's Russia's guy...

mickeyrat

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

That would depend on your news source, I guess...

Is that not accurate?

Not according to any Russian source, and many alt sources....click around a bit on globalresearch, RT, PressTV, Fars etc....pretty much any news source that doesn't come from the west. I know most people here brush those sources off as if they're crap, but....so is US media for the most part. They all seem to claim Russia is the only country actually fighting ISIS, while the US, Turkey, and the Saudis are helping them. I'm sure Russia isn't really differentiating much between the FSA and ISIS tho....really, should they? They are all terrorists as far as Assad is concerned, and he's Russia's guy...

it IS an important distinction though. FSA and other groups are fighting IS too as well as Assad. It can be reasonably argued that the FSA and a few others are traditional rebels taking on the state militarily , not using terror tactics. Same with IS I ssuppose but with far more brutality on civilians who dont fall in line. Not hearing anything like that about FSA are we?

PJfanwillneverleave1

It might not get ugly.
In a roundabout way don't militaries state "hey if you cross this line you will pay x price"
Russia likes to poke the bear.
Poking a bear one too many times while part of NATO may have woken it up.

mickeyrat

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

It might not get ugly.
In a roundabout way don't militaries state "hey if you cross this line you will pay x price"
Russia likes to poke the bear.
Poking a bear one too many times while part of NATO may have woken it up.

Turkey already shot a russian drone out of the sky. THAT right there says dont do it. Turkey has the will to back up the threats with action. Shown that twice now.

Drowned Out

mickeyrat said:

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

Drowned Out said:

rgambs said:

SVRDhand13 said:

davidtrios said:

Turkey just killed 2 Russian heroes battling the ISIS for the safety and security of humanity.
Down with the kebabs!

Actually, I think Russia is battling Syrian Rebels who are trying to take down Assad.

Correct, around 80% of Russian air strikes are NOT against ISIS.

That would depend on your news source, I guess...

Is that not accurate?

Not according to any Russian source, and many alt sources....click around a bit on globalresearch, RT, PressTV, Fars etc....pretty much any news source that doesn't come from the west. I know most people here brush those sources off as if they're crap, but....so is US media for the most part. They all seem to claim Russia is the only country actually fighting ISIS, while the US, Turkey, and the Saudis are helping them. I'm sure Russia isn't really differentiating much between the FSA and ISIS tho....really, should they? They are all terrorists as far as Assad is concerned, and he's Russia's guy...

it IS an important distinction though. FSA and other groups are fighting IS too as well as Assad. It can be reasonably argued that the FSA and a few others are traditional rebels taking on the state militarily , not using terror tactics. Same with IS I ssuppose but with far more brutality on civilians who dont fall in line. Not hearing anything like that about FSA are we?

Again, depends on your sources. Check out this article about the 'burial brigades', responsible for the slaughter of up to 400 civilians:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-history-of-isis-beheadings-part-of-the-training-manual-of-us-sponsored-syria-pro-democracy-terrorists/5402566
The article details the difference in wording that conflates the groups responsible for the atrocities. Different sources, different groups to blame. It appears that the FSA was involved in the attacks....but that is not the agenda pushed by the western sources.

What can you tell me about the people who form the FSA? There are over 1000 rebel groups fighting in Syria. How do you make your important distinction, if not through the biased lens of government propaganda / mainstream media?
We know that the FSA has lost many fighters and arms to ISIS (by 'defection')- non-western sources say it's by design. We know the FSA has roots in Turkey; that they have been at the core of the uprising / coup (depending on perspective) since day one. We know their internal propaganda has conflated their enemy - the Kurds, with ISIS, despite the fact the Kurds are fighting ISIS. We know there have been persistent insinuations that Turkey is harbouring ISIS members and allowing reinforcements thru their border with Syria. We know they facilitate ISIS while claiming to fight them. We know the FSA is comprised of a huge number of foreign fighters. We know Russia bombed a convoy of oil trucks heading from ISIS controlled territory to Turkey last week. We know they shot down a Russian plane just as Russia began talking about coordinating strikes against ISIS with the US last week, and looking for renewed peace talks. We know Russia outed ISIS's funding at the G20 meeting. We know 'moderate' rebels shot down a Russian helicopter that was part of the search and rescue mission for the downed jet pilots, using US-provided surface to air missiles. We know there is a movement to try to get more rebel groups listed as 'moderates'....
What else do we know about the FSA? Do you believe what the western media is pushing? How much has that media talked about Russia's claims about ISIS funding, or about the attack on the oil convoy headed to Turkey?
It's a giant clusterfuck of a proxy war; I think it's been made intentionally confusing from day one. Trying to determine who the good and bad guys are through the media is damn near impossible. SO what are we left with to determine 'truth'? As is so often the case, we need to ask 'who benefits'? Obviously, the arms companies keeping raking in the profits, (esp since Paris)....Syria continues to lose a massive number of it's educated and well-off citizens - 'brain drain' via refugee....the poor continue to be killed and radicalized because they have no means of escape. It's Iraq all over again - regime change, and a weakened country pushed toward sectarian balkanization, with puppet states set up in the oil-rich areas....thereby weakening Iran's influence in the middle east, and threatening one of Russia's traditional allies / bases in the region. As I keep repeating on this board - this is the openly stated goal of the US, according to leaked documents. This was promoted as an R2P mission (responsibility to protect) at the beginning, but there is almost never truth in the 'humanitarian war' angle.
Remember a couple years back when Russia offered to broker a peace deal that included Assad stepping down....and the US ignored them, thinking he was going to fall anyway?

davidtrios

dankind

The Turkish government still considers its leaders who helped to carry out the Armenian genocide to be national heroes.

I wouldn't fuck with Turkey.

Annafalk

I think it was really shameful that Turkey shot down the Russian plane. Many planes from different countries has flown in to our territory, it's been noted.

dankind

At least it was a military plane. Russia shoots down passenger planes.

Annafalk

dankind said:

At least it was a military plane. Russia shoots down passenger planes.

Russian rebels, I agree that is much worse.

dankind

Annafalk said:

dankind said:

At least it was a military plane. Russia shoots down passenger planes.

Russian rebels, I agree that is much worse.

Sure. You go ahead and believe that.

Drowned Out

Russian rebels? Or Ukranian rebels? Or.....was it even them? They deny involvement (like that means anything), and their case is pretty compelling.
Who has blood on their hands from Iran Air 655 being shot down?
I realize that was 1988....but it sure seems a lot of people are stuck in the Cold War era in regards to Russia anyway.

dankind

Drowned Out said:

Russian rebels? Or Ukranian rebels? Or.....was it even them? They deny involvement (like that means anything), and their case is pretty compelling.
Who has blood on their hands from Iran Air 655 being shot down?
I realize that was 1988....but it sure seems a lot of people are stuck in the Cold War era in regards to Russia anyway.

U! S! A! U! S! A!

Drowned Out

dankind said:

Drowned Out said:

Russian rebels? Or Ukranian rebels? Or.....was it even them? They deny involvement (like that means anything), and their case is pretty compelling.
Who has blood on their hands from Iran Air 655 being shot down?
I realize that was 1988....but it sure seems a lot of people are stuck in the Cold War era in regards to Russia anyway.

U! S! A! U! S! A!

Fuck yeah.

Annafalk

dankind said:

Annafalk said:

dankind said:

At least it was a military plane. Russia shoots down passenger planes.

Russian rebels, I agree that is much worse.

Sure. You go ahead and believe that.

dankind

Drowned Out said:

dankind said:

Drowned Out said:

Russian rebels? Or Ukranian rebels? Or.....was it even them? They deny involvement (like that means anything), and their case is pretty compelling.
Who has blood on their hands from Iran Air 655 being shot down?
I realize that was 1988....but it sure seems a lot of people are stuck in the Cold War era in regards to Russia anyway.

U! S! A! U! S! A!

Fuck yeah.

Along those lines we could really derail this thing with 911 conspiracies.

But let's get back on track.

Really stupid of Russia not to take Turkey seriously? Or really smart? Seems strategic.

Drowned Out

dankind said:

Drowned Out said:

dankind said:

Drowned Out said:

Russian rebels? Or Ukranian rebels? Or.....was it even them? They deny involvement (like that means anything), and their case is pretty compelling.
Who has blood on their hands from Iran Air 655 being shot down?
I realize that was 1988....but it sure seems a lot of people are stuck in the Cold War era in regards to Russia anyway.

U! S! A! U! S! A!

Fuck yeah.

Along those lines we could really derail this thing with 911 conspiracies.

But let's get back on track.

Really stupid of Russia not to take Turkey seriously? Or really smart? Seems strategic.

aw, I'm so disappointed that that thread cost me credibility in your eyes
What makes you think Russia did not take them seriously?