Canadian Politics Redux

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Mass shooting on the Danforth in Toronto. Doesn’t sound good, a guy dressed in black shooting people randomly, apparently multiple fatalities, but information’s sketchy as it seems to have happened within the hour or so.

This on the weekend police were increasing patrols to deal with the gang violence.

Edit:  As the news was signing off, it’s being reported 9 victims (including a child), plus the dead gunman.

Damn and crap.

Shooter is dead; I can't tell from reports if anyone else is dead, though certainly many wounded. Online news now says 10 total, though it's not clear to me if the gunman is included in the total. 

My bad, I really should’ve been more specific that 9 victims were hit and 6 were apparently taken to hospitals.  I made it sound like it could be 9 dead, which it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hopefully the shooter left enough behind for a clear motive to be determined.

I was trying to find more information online. I read one brief article that gave a bare-bones description. There were two comments below - the first said something to the effect that "Toronto isn't safe anymore", and the second said "Muslim terrorist?". 

I hate that that's the default. That was the default with the van attack a few months ago, and despite that not being accurate, here we go again. 

Meltdown99

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Mass shooting on the Danforth in Toronto. Doesn’t sound good, a guy dressed in black shooting people randomly, apparently multiple fatalities, but information’s sketchy as it seems to have happened within the hour or so.

This on the weekend police were increasing patrols to deal with the gang violence.

Edit:  As the news was signing off, it’s being reported 9 victims (including a child), plus the dead gunman.

Damn and crap.

Shooter is dead; I can't tell from reports if anyone else is dead, though certainly many wounded. Online news now says 10 total, though it's not clear to me if the gunman is included in the total. 

My bad, I really should’ve been more specific that 9 victims were hit and 6 were apparently taken to hospitals.  I made it sound like it could be 9 dead, which it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hopefully the shooter left enough behind for a clear motive to be determined.

I was trying to find more information online. I read one brief article that gave a bare-bones description. There were two comments below - the first said something to the effect that "Toronto isn't safe anymore", and the second said "Muslim terrorist?". 

I hate that that's the default. That was the default with the van attack a few months ago, and despite that not being accurate, here we go again. 

It's definitely terrorism, could be home grown.  Toronto appears to be getting less safe.

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Mass shooting on the Danforth in Toronto. Doesn’t sound good, a guy dressed in black shooting people randomly, apparently multiple fatalities, but information’s sketchy as it seems to have happened within the hour or so.

This on the weekend police were increasing patrols to deal with the gang violence.

Edit:  As the news was signing off, it’s being reported 9 victims (including a child), plus the dead gunman.

Damn and crap.

Shooter is dead; I can't tell from reports if anyone else is dead, though certainly many wounded. Online news now says 10 total, though it's not clear to me if the gunman is included in the total. 

My bad, I really should’ve been more specific that 9 victims were hit and 6 were apparently taken to hospitals.  I made it sound like it could be 9 dead, which it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hopefully the shooter left enough behind for a clear motive to be determined.

I was trying to find more information online. I read one brief article that gave a bare-bones description. There were two comments below - the first said something to the effect that "Toronto isn't safe anymore", and the second said "Muslim terrorist?". 

I hate that that's the default. That was the default with the van attack a few months ago, and despite that not being accurate, here we go again. 

It's definitely terrorism, could be home grown.  Toronto appears to be getting less safe.

What do you mean by "definitely terrorism"?

Meltdown99

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Mass shooting on the Danforth in Toronto. Doesn’t sound good, a guy dressed in black shooting people randomly, apparently multiple fatalities, but information’s sketchy as it seems to have happened within the hour or so.

This on the weekend police were increasing patrols to deal with the gang violence.

Edit:  As the news was signing off, it’s being reported 9 victims (including a child), plus the dead gunman.

Damn and crap.

Shooter is dead; I can't tell from reports if anyone else is dead, though certainly many wounded. Online news now says 10 total, though it's not clear to me if the gunman is included in the total. 

My bad, I really should’ve been more specific that 9 victims were hit and 6 were apparently taken to hospitals.  I made it sound like it could be 9 dead, which it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hopefully the shooter left enough behind for a clear motive to be determined.

I was trying to find more information online. I read one brief article that gave a bare-bones description. There were two comments below - the first said something to the effect that "Toronto isn't safe anymore", and the second said "Muslim terrorist?". 

I hate that that's the default. That was the default with the van attack a few months ago, and despite that not being accurate, here we go again. 

It's definitely terrorism, could be home grown.  Toronto appears to be getting less safe.

What do you mean by "definitely terrorism"?

I do not define terrorism based on a persons religion.  To me terrorism is any attempt at causing mass casualties and death, and emotional trauma to people in the area of the attack.

Meltdown99

I got a sister that lives in Toronto.  Be safe people in Toronto.

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

Meltdown99 said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Mass shooting on the Danforth in Toronto. Doesn’t sound good, a guy dressed in black shooting people randomly, apparently multiple fatalities, but information’s sketchy as it seems to have happened within the hour or so.

This on the weekend police were increasing patrols to deal with the gang violence.

Edit:  As the news was signing off, it’s being reported 9 victims (including a child), plus the dead gunman.

Damn and crap.

Shooter is dead; I can't tell from reports if anyone else is dead, though certainly many wounded. Online news now says 10 total, though it's not clear to me if the gunman is included in the total. 

My bad, I really should’ve been more specific that 9 victims were hit and 6 were apparently taken to hospitals.  I made it sound like it could be 9 dead, which it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Hopefully the shooter left enough behind for a clear motive to be determined.

I was trying to find more information online. I read one brief article that gave a bare-bones description. There were two comments below - the first said something to the effect that "Toronto isn't safe anymore", and the second said "Muslim terrorist?". 

I hate that that's the default. That was the default with the van attack a few months ago, and despite that not being accurate, here we go again. 

It's definitely terrorism, could be home grown.  Toronto appears to be getting less safe.

What do you mean by "definitely terrorism"?

I do not define terrorism based on a persons religion.  To me terrorism is any attempt at causing mass casualties and death, and emotional trauma to people in the area of the attack.

I certainly hope your sister is safe.

If you define terrorism as any attempt to cause mass casualties, then the term is meaningless, since it doesn't distinguish from any human-generated event causing mass casualties. I am not defining it by religion at all, either, but I think we need to put some closer parameters on the definition of "terrorism".

Meltdown99

  The shooting in Toronto was an act of terror.  

Meltdown99

Woman dead, 13 injured after shooting on Toronto’s Danforth; shooter also dead

https://globalnews.ca/news/4346484/toronto-greektown-danforth-logan-shooting/?utm_source=GlobalToronto&utm_medium=Facebook

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'll wait for the official details before commenting on a potential 'terrorism' component to this event.

The other narrative might be the lonely loser male that women don't like because he's so damn weird. This one plays out quite often: the creepy male loser that finally has enough of getting turned down by women guns down normal people for their normalcy in frustration.

I'm glad he's dead. I don't think I could stomach a lengthy trial and the associated appeals- all funded by the public- before the whopping 5 year sentence.

Meltdown99

Any mass incident with intent to spread fear is a terror event ...  I think firing into a crowd of people qualifies.  Just because PM Fluff is afraid to use the word terrorism ... I am not.

PJ_Soul

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Kind of a weird statement.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Kind of a weird statement.

What's weird about it? You know what kind of xenophobic shit show would follow a terrorist attack by a non-white person in North America. I never like to see that happen - it's terrible for everyone. That kind of shit show doesn't happen when a white person is responsible.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Kind of a weird statement.

What's weird about it? You know what kind of xenophobic shit show would follow a terrorist attack by a non-white person in North America. I never like to see that happen - it's terrible for everyone. That kind of shit show doesn't happen when a white person is responsible.

I disagree.

Right now... white people are the villains in the US. The Nazis are taking a beating in the public forum and deservedly so. To a lesser degree, the simple yokel (who doesn't actually commit acts of violence, but supports the evil regime with their stupidity) is villain number two.

If this was a case of Islamic extremists (which is who I think you were breathing a sigh of relief it wasn't)... then the Islamic extremists could take their fair share of criticism and judgement.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Kind of a weird statement.

What's weird about it? You know what kind of xenophobic shit show would follow a terrorist attack by a non-white person in North America. I never like to see that happen - it's terrible for everyone. That kind of shit show doesn't happen when a white person is responsible.

I disagree.

Right now... white people are the villains in the US. The Nazis are taking a beating in the public forum and deservedly so. To a lesser degree, the simple yokel (who doesn't actually commit acts of violence, but supports the evil regime with their stupidity) is villain number two.

If this was a case of Islamic extremists (which is who I think you were breathing a sigh of relief it wasn't)... then the Islamic extremists could take their fair share of criticism and judgement.

But when was the last time you heard about a big upsurge in racist attacks on white people due to a terrorist incident??
And "white people" are not the villains in the US. White nationalists are, justifiably and correctly. I don't agree with your comparisons at all. They come off as false equivalencies to me.
And FTR, I am breathing a sigh of relief that it wasn't a non-white immigrant generally. I wasn't thinking about Islamic extremists specifically at all. It would have been just as bad if it had been, say, a Haitian refugee or something. And you know as well as anyone that it isn't Islamic extremists who suffer most of the consequences of Islamic terror in North America. It's the peaceful majority.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't let random people define terrorism any way they see fit. Terrorism means something and armchair warriors sure as shit aren't the ones defining it.

Some witnesses said that it was a white guy btw. I hope they're right. In all events like this in Canada or the US, one of my first thoughts (after sorrow for victims) is always, "I hope it was at least a white person." Because then all the xenophobes and racists have nowhere to go with it.

Kind of a weird statement.

What's weird about it? You know what kind of xenophobic shit show would follow a terrorist attack by a non-white person in North America. I never like to see that happen - it's terrible for everyone. That kind of shit show doesn't happen when a white person is responsible.

I disagree.

Right now... white people are the villains in the US. The Nazis are taking a beating in the public forum and deservedly so. To a lesser degree, the simple yokel (who doesn't actually commit acts of violence, but supports the evil regime with their stupidity) is villain number two.

If this was a case of Islamic extremists (which is who I think you were breathing a sigh of relief it wasn't)... then the Islamic extremists could take their fair share of criticism and judgement.

But when was the last time you heard about a big upsurge in racist attacks on white people due to a terrorist incident??
And "white people" are not the villains in the US. White nationalists are, justifiably and correctly. I don't agree with your comparisons at all. They come off as false equivalencies to me.
And FTR, I am breathing a sigh of relief that it wasn't a non-white immigrant generally. I wasn't thinking about Islamic extremists specifically at all. It would have been just as bad if it had been, say, a Haitian refugee or something. And you know as well as anyone that it isn't Islamic extremists who suffer most of the consequences of Islamic terror in North America. It's the peaceful majority.

This is fair. I wouldn't argue against this.

DarthMaeglin

Suspect just named:  Faisal Hussain.  Guess the angry white guy theory goes out the window and we're back to talking terrorism, sadly.

Meltdown99

DarthMaeglin said:

Suspect just named:  Faisal Hussain.  Guess the angry white guy theory goes out the window and we're back to talking terrorism, sadly.

Haven't you heard, we can not call it terrorism.  PM Fluff will be offended.  After-all he is very delicate.

PJ_Soul

DarthMaeglin said:

Suspect just named:  Faisal Hussain.  Guess the angry white guy theory goes out the window and we're back to talking terrorism, sadly.

That's a real shame (I mean above and beyond the obvious of course). Expect the anti-immigrant/islamophobia machine of the Conservatives to crank it up a notched.

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Suspect just named:  Faisal Hussain.  Guess the angry white guy theory goes out the window and we're back to talking terrorism, sadly.

Haven't you heard, we can not call it terrorism.  PM Fluff will be offended.  After-all he is very delicate.

The Canadian government has absolutely no problem calling terrorism terrorism, of course.