Pacific Ocean Pollution AKA The Great Pacific Garbage Patch

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  • brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    Annafalk said:

    Today I read something unbelievably tragic, that there soon actually will be more plastics than fishes in the oceans?
    I wonder why/how so much plastics end up in our waters, it can't only be litter that has blown away with the wind, there must be other explanations. Could there some country dumping their waist directly in the ocean or what?
    95% of the plastics are only used one single time, we need to stop produce so freeking much and recycle much more.

    Appears to be the case, Annafalk.

    https://ecowatch.com/2016/01/20/more-plastic-than-fish-in-ocean/

    And to make matters worse, fishing practices (including illegal fishing and whaling) are decimating many species of fish. If we don't stop this, we will go as well. I never eat fish any more.
    Brian, the United States does an amazing job at keeping the fishing sustainable. They have quotas and observers to watch over this to make sure that a species never gets over fished.
    I was a deckhand in Alaska and was amazed at what they do to assure healthy fishing the next year.

    That's encouraging, tempo, and I've read that the U.S. leads the world in (so-called) sustainable fishing (I say "so-called" because I'm not convinced we really understand that term to it's fullest extent) and yet when we stop to consider that the US is but one part of a larger whole- the earth- the problem is still great. The fact is that world-wide, over-fishing is a major problem. The U.S. only has control over so much of the oceans and the fish themselves know few boundaries. In fact whales are known to migrate as much as 5,000 KM (3106 miles). Many fish species have become extinct due to over-fishing and many others are endangered. And then, of course, add to that the problem of plastics in the oceans and the dying out of coral reefs and we have a major major problem.

    If the oceans die back too far, we and most other mammals die off.
    Brian the Salmon, cod, trout and crab population are like clocks. They come back to the same places. Salmon spawn where they were born 90% of the time. Those fishing grounds out there will be fertile for years.

    Read what happened in the late 70's and you'll see why the US is such sticklers for sustaining it.

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    Annafalk said:

    Today I read something unbelievably tragic, that there soon actually will be more plastics than fishes in the oceans?
    I wonder why/how so much plastics end up in our waters, it can't only be litter that has blown away with the wind, there must be other explanations. Could there some country dumping their waist directly in the ocean or what?
    95% of the plastics are only used one single time, we need to stop produce so freeking much and recycle much more.

    Appears to be the case, Annafalk.

    https://ecowatch.com/2016/01/20/more-plastic-than-fish-in-ocean/

    And to make matters worse, fishing practices (including illegal fishing and whaling) are decimating many species of fish. If we don't stop this, we will go as well. I never eat fish any more.
    Brian, the United States does an amazing job at keeping the fishing sustainable. They have quotas and observers to watch over this to make sure that a species never gets over fished.
    I was a deckhand in Alaska and was amazed at what they do to assure healthy fishing the next year.

    That's encouraging, tempo, and I've read that the U.S. leads the world in (so-called) sustainable fishing (I say "so-called" because I'm not convinced we really understand that term to it's fullest extent) and yet when we stop to consider that the US is but one part of a larger whole- the earth- the problem is still great. The fact is that world-wide, over-fishing is a major problem. The U.S. only has control over so much of the oceans and the fish themselves know few boundaries. In fact whales are known to migrate as much as 5,000 KM (3106 miles). Many fish species have become extinct due to over-fishing and many others are endangered. And then, of course, add to that the problem of plastics in the oceans and the dying out of coral reefs and we have a major major problem.

    If the oceans die back too far, we and most other mammals die off.
    Brian the Salmon, cod, trout and crab population are like clocks. They come back to the same places. Salmon spawn where they were born 90% of the time. Those fishing grounds out there will be fertile for years.

    Read what happened in the late 70's and you'll see why the US is such sticklers for sustaining it.

    Tearing down the dam on Washington State's Elwha River to help the salmon run free was a big step in the right direction. But I still won't eat fish because the problem is much bigger than regional. I'm practically vegetarian these days with only occasionally eating chicken. To not move in the direction of vegetarianism would make me a major hypocrite.
    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    So should I feel bad about the Salmon I just took out the freezer for tomorrow's dinner or am I good?

    I gotta say after reading about the fishing a couple years ago I'm SUPER picky when buying fish.
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274
    ldent42 said:

    So should I feel bad about the Salmon I just took out the freezer for tomorrow's dinner or am I good?

    I gotta say after reading about the fishing a couple years ago I'm SUPER picky when buying fish.

    No, guilt accomplishes nothing. If I were in your situation, I would take extra care to make the best meal out of that fish I could and enjoy it and be thankful for the life given for my sustenance. I might even raise a toast to the salmon. And then the next day I would start checking my cookbooks for good healthy tasty vegetarian meals and give the money I would have spent on another salmon to an organization (you know who I would choose) who works to help save the oceans.

    Here's what happened to me just a few hours ago. I was invited to a "thank you" dinner by one of our excellent local eateries for being a big supporter of their wonderful local independent restaurant/catering business. We've known the proprietor and his family for several years now. Really nice folks. The meal they served was an outstanding seafood bouillabaisse. No way would I make this meal myself or purchase the ingredients. But there it was. It was going to be consumed one way or another. The fish were already dead. To throw it out would be sacrilege and to make a fuss over it would be rude and unkind to our gracious host. When I got home I decided this was a good time to start tithing my personal allowance to Sea Shepherd. My wife and I already support this organization with some of our combined income and my tiny business income but I wanted to do this with my own money. No guilt, just moving forward.
    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • brianlux said:

    ldent42 said:

    So should I feel bad about the Salmon I just took out the freezer for tomorrow's dinner or am I good?

    I gotta say after reading about the fishing a couple years ago I'm SUPER picky when buying fish.

    No, guilt accomplishes nothing. If I were in your situation, I would take extra care to make the best meal out of that fish I could and enjoy it and be thankful for the life given for my sustenance. I might even raise a toast to the salmon. And then the next day I would start checking my cookbooks for good healthy tasty vegetarian meals and give the money I would have spent on another salmon to an organization (you know who I would choose) who works to help save the oceans.

    Here's what happened to me just a few hours ago. I was invited to a "thank you" dinner by one of our excellent local eateries for being a big supporter of their wonderful local independent restaurant/catering business. We've known the proprietor and his family for several years now. Really nice folks. The meal they served was an outstanding seafood bouillabaisse. No way would I make this meal myself or purchase the ingredients. But there it was. It was going to be consumed one way or another. The fish were already dead. To throw it out would be sacrilege and to make a fuss over it would be rude and unkind to our gracious host. When I got home I decided this was a good time to start tithing my personal allowance to Sea Shepherd. My wife and I already support this organization with some of our combined income and my tiny business income but I wanted to do this with my own money. No guilt, just moving forward.
    The Sea Sheppard and the rest of the fishing industry are miles apart…

    Not even close.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274

    brianlux said:

    ldent42 said:

    So should I feel bad about the Salmon I just took out the freezer for tomorrow's dinner or am I good?

    I gotta say after reading about the fishing a couple years ago I'm SUPER picky when buying fish.

    No, guilt accomplishes nothing. If I were in your situation, I would take extra care to make the best meal out of that fish I could and enjoy it and be thankful for the life given for my sustenance. I might even raise a toast to the salmon. And then the next day I would start checking my cookbooks for good healthy tasty vegetarian meals and give the money I would have spent on another salmon to an organization (you know who I would choose) who works to help save the oceans.

    Here's what happened to me just a few hours ago. I was invited to a "thank you" dinner by one of our excellent local eateries for being a big supporter of their wonderful local independent restaurant/catering business. We've known the proprietor and his family for several years now. Really nice folks. The meal they served was an outstanding seafood bouillabaisse. No way would I make this meal myself or purchase the ingredients. But there it was. It was going to be consumed one way or another. The fish were already dead. To throw it out would be sacrilege and to make a fuss over it would be rude and unkind to our gracious host. When I got home I decided this was a good time to start tithing my personal allowance to Sea Shepherd. My wife and I already support this organization with some of our combined income and my tiny business income but I wanted to do this with my own money. No guilt, just moving forward.
    The Sea Sheppard and the rest of the fishing industry are miles apart…

    Not even close.
    Maybe so but here are the facts: Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (SSCS) does what most governments won't due- uphold international laws regarding fishing and whaling. SSCS has, on occasion, been supported by the U.S. Coast Guard, the Mexican Navy and the Costa Rican Coast Guard. They have never killed or seriously injured any one and none working for SSCS has been seriously injured or killed. Their founder, Paul Watson, has never been found guilty of an offense despite, among other actions, his organization having scuttled the illegal whaling ship Sierra and half of the Norwegian whaling fleet, and ramming the illegal Japanese whaling ship, Nisshin Maru. Under international law, those operations were illegal and that law upholds the right of an NGO or individual to take action against those illegal operations.

    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    Brian I'm curious about this now. I thought that fish farming was a bad thing. Bad for ecosystems, bad for the fish, bad for the people eating the fish. But now I'm wondering if my thinking had been backwards? Is fish farming done in an effort at sustainability? Or at least better for the health of our oceans than wild caught fish?
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,228
    edited January 2016
    ldent42 said:

    Brian I'm curious about this now. I thought that fish farming was a bad thing. Bad for ecosystems, bad for the fish, bad for the people eating the fish. But now I'm wondering if my thinking had been backwards? Is fish farming done in an effort at sustainability? Or at least better for the health of our oceans than wild caught fish?

    Yes, fish farming is terrible for wild fish stocks as it is generally done now. I would NEVER buy a farmed salmon. Those salmon farms have caused terrible harm to wild stocks. Do not eat farmed fish unless you know for an absolute fact they were farmed in land-locked pens (they probably weren't - they almost never are because that is a very expensive way to farm fish). Also, they don't taste nearly as good. You can even see that farmed salmon aren't even the same colour flesh-wise. It's like the difference between free-range eggs from hormone free, grain-fed chickens and caged eggs from chickens stuffed with growth hormones. Stick with wild fish!
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ldent42ldent42 NYCPosts: 7,843
    I don't know that he was pushing farmed fish. It was my own curiosity. I only buy the stuff that's labeled "wild caught" now, as I was under the impression that fish farming was bad, but I started to question if I'd gotten that mixed up, which is why I asked.
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,228
    I am surprised coastal fish farming is even still legal.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ldent42 said:

    I don't know that he was pushing farmed fish. It was my own curiosity. I only buy the stuff that's labeled "wild caught" now, as I was under the impression that fish farming was bad, but I started to question if I'd gotten that mixed up, which is why I asked.

    They have salmon/pollock "hatcheries" on the west coast. They are where the salmon spawn and are protected and swim out to the ocean. It's not a farm like orange roughy or atlantic salmon come from. They monitor the amount of fish that spawn. It's really interesting. The Pacific fishing industry is all wild caught. Nothing is "farmed" that I know of. I do know what we fished for in Alaska and all of it was wild, lol.

    The Alaska fishing industry is a big deal and they need to make sure that it is sustainable. Again, they do a great job at monitoring it.
    PJ_Soul said:

    I am surprised coastal fish farming is even still legal.

    They do pollock, cod, hake and salmon in your country PJsoul.

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274
    Do an internet search on "how fish farming is harmful" and you'll find more information than you're likely to have time to read. The antibiotics used, the spread of farm waste chemicals, disease, parasites, impacts on marine life... it's just not good.

    As far as sustainable fishing goes, the reality is there are about 2245 species of fish that are on the endangered list. A few years ago I had read that 80% of the worlds fish were being over-fished. Today that number is 85%.

    Any excuse you'll read in favor of fishing (whether well intended or not) will come from an anthropocentric point of view. That very human-centered kind of thinking is what is driving the fish and eventually all major forms of life including homo sapiens to the brink of extinction. This is not hyperbole. It is fact.

    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • brianlux said:

    Do an internet search on "how fish farming is harmful" and you'll find more information than you're likely to have time to read. The antibiotics used, the spread of farm waste chemicals, disease, parasites, impacts on marine life... it's just not good.

    As far as sustainable fishing goes, the reality is there are about 2245 species of fish that are on the endangered list. A few years ago I had read that 80% of the worlds fish were being over-fished. Today that number is 85%.

    Any excuse you'll read in favor of fishing (whether well intended or not) will come from an anthropocentric point of view. That very human-centered kind of thinking is what is driving the fish and eventually all major forms of life including homo sapiens to the brink of extinction. This is not hyperbole. It is fact.

    You do know that Alaska has fishing sustainability built into their constitution right?

    As for the rest of the world I would agree that they are overfishing. Espeacially blue fin tuna. In the gulf they encourage the anglers to release their catch rather than mount it on their walls.

    Read the wonderful article on the right.
    http://www.seafoodwatch.org/ocean-issues/wild-seafood/overfishing
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274
    Catch and release, yes way better than mounting. But I might have to run a fish hook through my mouth and out my cheek to see how it feels before I give it a thumbs up! (Can fish feel that kind of pain?)
    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,228

    ldent42 said:

    I don't know that he was pushing farmed fish. It was my own curiosity. I only buy the stuff that's labeled "wild caught" now, as I was under the impression that fish farming was bad, but I started to question if I'd gotten that mixed up, which is why I asked.

    They have salmon/pollock "hatcheries" on the west coast. They are where the salmon spawn and are protected and swim out to the ocean. It's not a farm like orange roughy or atlantic salmon come from. They monitor the amount of fish that spawn. It's really interesting. The Pacific fishing industry is all wild caught. Nothing is "farmed" that I know of. I do know what we fished for in Alaska and all of it was wild, lol.

    The Alaska fishing industry is a big deal and they need to make sure that it is sustainable. Again, they do a great job at monitoring it.
    PJ_Soul said:

    I am surprised coastal fish farming is even still legal.

    They do pollock, cod, hake and salmon in your country PJsoul.

    Yes indeed.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,575
    Just saw these guys on TV this weekend.

    I'm glad I stumbled upon this.
    The company sells recycled plastic bracelets to help fund their ocean cleanup.
    https://4ocean.com/pages/our-story
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,400
    edited June 12
    Canada is planning to ban single-use plastics by 2021... including water bottles ... we will see

    After this Brutal clip, I'm not sure our PM even knows what a water bottle is.



    Trudeau water bottle...






    Post edited by Meltdown99 on
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,785

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,274
    edited June 11
    Anybody here see the movie "Downsizing"?  What a weird, convoluted movie.  I actually thought it was both a mess, pretty bad, sometimes good and with great moments.  It's like three or four movies mashed together.

    Anyway, who's going down the tunnel and who's staying here with me?  Are ya with me??
    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






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