Some people can't be saved

mookeywrench

They're available to everyone

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Observations: Tips are down, rents are up, small businesses are closing or relocating out of Seattle, public assistance unchanged.

Some are knee-jerk reactions, some are a mixed result of a stronger economy, but in the long-term, this $15.00 minimum wage is going to have no effect on it's intended purpose.

And to whoever said rich people will use every angle to decrease their taxes; I've worked with a range of clients who earn $20-30k a year and clients who earn $8m-10m a year. They all use every angle to decrease their taxes.

Yeah but the difference is that those making $20-$30K need all their money to eat...the rich have that covered X1000

Tax savings is the argument, not cost of living.

rgambs

mookeywrench said:

They're available to everyone

Please explain to me how a person who works an hourly payroll job is able to take advantage of the 15% capital gains tax without significant risk factors? Or how the same person is going to be able to hide money in an offshore account? How will that person shuffle profits in their S corp to lower their tax burden?

mookeywrench

If someone invests in stock or receives stock based compensation with a portion of their income (like i did when i was in college and earning a whopping 10.00 an hour.) they will receive a 0% capital gains tax at their income level.

You can open up a foreign account with 1 buck, and you'd be below the threshold for disclosure of the bank account.

S-corp owners are still require to take a reasonable compensation. If an person is currently working an hourly wage, but has an business idea and wants to start their own S-Corp, all they have to do is file the paperwork with their state to do so. The initial license and application fee is a little over $100.

Gern Blansten

mookeywrench said:

If someone invests in stock or receives stock based compensation with a portion of their income (like i did when i was in college and earning a whopping 10.00 an hour.) they will receive a 0% capital gains tax at their income level.

You can open up a foreign account with 1 buck, and you'd be below the threshold for disclosure of the bank account.

S-corp owners are still require to take a reasonable compensation. If an person is currently working an hourly wage, but has an business idea and wants to start their own S-Corp, all they have to do is file the paperwork with their state to do so. The initial license and application fee is a little over $100.

I think the point being made is that they have no ability to invest to make capital gains...they have no capital

mookeywrench

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

rr165892

Godfather. said:

...there are actually people that want less money and less work and more government hand outs ?????? who'd a think'it ? everybody screams for a "liveable wage" or a "job" and then turn it down when they get it so they wont lose the government freebies, or the business forced to pay a higher wage pack it up and close the doors....generation after generations of familys learn how to use the welfare system and not work...this has affected our economy, driving up this countrys cost of doing business, well this is what you get when you make medical,money and housing available to people that claim they can't work or even easier come here ilegally and tap into the system, welcome to welfare America ! step right in ! our national debt is about $18 trillion and growing but who cares ?we'll just print up some money to pay for welfare abusers and ilegal (from all over the world) leaches
yeah that's it lets keep the gates of our borders open, send more printed money to other countries and we'll be just fine !

Godfather.

Spot on GF

rr165892

rgambs said:

mookeywrench said:

rgambs said:

mookeywrench said:

Observations: Tips are down, rents are up, small businesses are closing or relocating out of Seattle, public assistance unchanged.

Some are knee-jerk reactions, some are a mixed result of a stronger economy, but in the long-term, this $15.00 minimum wage is going to have no effect on it's intended purpose.

And to whoever said rich people will use every angle to decrease their taxes; I've worked with a range of clients who earn $20-30k a year and clients who earn $8m-10m a year. They all use every angle to decrease their taxes.

It's true they all try to decrease their taxes, but it's also true that more money opens doors to actually making that happen.

Just as earning more money closes doors to available credits and deductions. And saying 'actually making it happen' implies that only the wealthy are the ones who are having any success at lowering their tax bill, which isn't the case at all.

In fact, if you compare someone's effective tax rate pre-deductions and post-deductions, I'd be willing to bet, the vast majority of the time, the low and middle income earners will come out with a wider variance than the high income earners. Deductions can only take save you so much as the majority of them are not designed to save tax in direct proportion to one's income.

Deductions are the least sophisticated means of tax evasion though, and are not the problem. Tax havens, accounting tricks, favorable capital gains tax, those sorts of things are only available at higher income levels.

How many low income families do you know with enough invested to actually be owing capital gains?

Gern Blansten

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

rr165892

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

rr165892

rgambs said:

mookeywrench said:

Observations: Tips are down, rents are up, small businesses are closing or relocating out of Seattle, public assistance unchanged.

Some are knee-jerk reactions, some are a mixed result of a stronger economy, but in the long-term, this $15.00 minimum wage is going to have no effect on it's intended purpose.

And to whoever said rich people will use every angle to decrease their taxes; I've worked with a range of clients who earn $20-30k a year and clients who earn $8m-10m a year. They all use every angle to decrease their taxes.

It's true they all try to decrease their taxes, but it's also true that more money opens doors to actually making that happen.

True

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

Gern Blansten

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

When every dime you make is going to pay rent, transportation, food, etc. I don't see room for investing. That's reality.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

rr165892 said:

Godfather. said:

...there are actually people that want less money and less work and more government hand outs ?????? who'd a think'it ? everybody screams for a "liveable wage" or a "job" and then turn it down when they get it so they wont lose the government freebies, or the business forced to pay a higher wage pack it up and close the doors....generation after generations of familys learn how to use the welfare system and not work...this has affected our economy, driving up this countrys cost of doing business, well this is what you get when you make medical,money and housing available to people that claim they can't work or even easier come here ilegally and tap into the system, welcome to welfare America ! step right in ! our national debt is about $18 trillion and growing but who cares ?we'll just print up some money to pay for welfare abusers and ilegal (from all over the world) leaches
yeah that's it lets keep the gates of our borders open, send more printed money to other countries and we'll be just fine !

Godfather.

Spot on GF

A few months ago, when we were all discussing the $15 minimum wage for fast food workers?

I was told by people on this board, when I brought up the point that many smaller businesses probably couldn't afford to give their workers a $4 an hour increase in pay, that If the employer couldn't pay $15 an hour, then he shouldn't be in business.

Still cracks me up.
I am told by the same people here that I should not shop at Wal-Mart, and that I should support local business. Yet if the local business can not afford to pay their employees $15 an hour, they shouldn't be in business.

And is anyone really surprised that there are employees asking to have their hours cut? I am sure it is a small percentage, but is it really all that surprising? Of course they are. Why on Earth would they give up the food stamps handouts? For some people, sadly, it is a way of life.

rr165892

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

When every dime you make is going to pay rent, transportation, food, etc. I don't see room for investing. That's reality.

Those are the hard working folks I think should get assistance.And a even a couple bucks squirreled away a week can make a big difference down the road.

Gern Blansten

rr165892 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

When every dime you make is going to pay rent, transportation, food, etc. I don't see room for investing. That's reality.

Those are the hard working folks I think should get assistance.And a even a couple bucks squirreled away a week can make a big difference down the road.

sure...but if my kids are hungry am I going to make them starve because I want to put away a couple bucks? Or am I going to buy food? or pay the electric bill?

rr165892

Of course the later.But the saving mindset is crucial.I would ask those same folks if the smoked or bought lotto tix,etc.There is always something that can be tweaked.

PJ_Soul

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

Statistics please. I want to know how prevalent it is. Without that info, it's just blah blah blahing.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

Statistics please. I want to know how prevalent it is. Without that info, it's just blah blah blahing.

Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.

Only statistic I have come across.
I am sure over the next year or so, we will all know how this is going to work out.

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

rr165892 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

When every dime you make is going to pay rent, transportation, food, etc. I don't see room for investing. That's reality.

Those are the hard working folks I think should get assistance.And a even a couple bucks squirreled away a week can make a big difference down the road.

sure...but if my kids are hungry am I going to make them starve because I want to put away a couple bucks? Or am I going to buy food? or pay the electric bill?

You're going to buy food, pay the electric bill...and work to get yourself out of the position where every dime you have isn't forced to go towards basic cost of living.

Whether that's adjusting your budget, advancing your education, working towards a promotion, finding a roommate is up to the individual.

Gern Blansten

If that's possible....without a living wage it can't be done and we are seeing evidence of that.

Gern Blansten

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

Statistics please. I want to know how prevalent it is. Without that info, it's just blah blah blahing.

Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.

Only statistic I have come across.
I am sure over the next year or so, we will all know how this is going to work out.

I think you need to give it longer than three months

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Gern Blansten said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

Statistics please. I want to know how prevalent it is. Without that info, it's just blah blah blahing.

Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.

Only statistic I have come across.
I am sure over the next year or so, we will all know how this is going to work out.

I think you need to give it longer than three months

Like I said, in the next year or so we will see how this all works out.

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

If that's possible....without a living wage it can't be done and we are seeing evidence of that.

And a living wage can only be adjusted through a minimum wage increase when all other economic forces remain constant, which is impossible.

Gern Blansten

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

If that's possible....without a living wage it can't be done and we are seeing evidence of that.

And a living wage can only be adjusted through a minimum wage increase when all other economic forces remain constant, which is impossible.

That's your opinion. Has the minimum wage been increased before?

Answer: Yes

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

If that's possible....without a living wage it can't be done and we are seeing evidence of that.

And a living wage can only be adjusted through a minimum wage increase when all other economic forces remain constant, which is impossible.

That's your opinion. Has the minimum wage been increased before?

Answer: Yes

...And no one has ever been in poverty since.

rgambs

rr165892 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Numbers please. I want to see how many people do this. Sounds like some people are making massive, uninformed, biased generalizations about this.

Really PJ.The system is abused.Entitlements are out of control.Want to reign things in?We need drug testing and mandatory contraception for all people on assistance.imo
Keep having kids,blowing off work to continue to milk the govt teet,Use your food card for booze,lottery tix and drugs.awesome.

All true. First though, we need to end entitlements to corporate America. Oil subsidies and tax breaks out the yingyang. Companies like GE making billions in profit and ending up with 0% income tax rate, even ending up in the positive.

Gern Blansten

One could make the argument that the reduced capital gains rates are welfare for the rich.

Last-12-Exit

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Gern Blansten said:

mookeywrench said:

Yes, they do. It's all a matter of setting up a budget.

When I was earning $10.00 an hour, i budgeted 3% of my income to apply towards investing...wallah...I just created capital for myself.

oh so because YOU were able to do that everyone is....got it

Saying, i'm gonna set aside x amount of dollars for x purpose, Is not a feat that only a handful of people can pull off.

When every dime you make is going to pay rent, transportation, food, etc. I don't see room for investing. That's reality.

Don't forget cigarettes and weed.

mookeywrench

Gern Blansten said:

One could make the argument that the reduced capital gains rates are welfare for the rich.

Not really.